On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
On June 04 2011 09:05 shinosai wrote: After reading the tl fitness thread pretty much constantly saying how bad grains are for you (refined and unrefined), I'm wondering if one can really consider the vegan diet to be all that healthy. The alternatives for protein and omega fatty acids come from grains but some people consider grains in general to be anti nutritious. It would seem that eating meat is the healthier alternative.
Vegans/vegetarians simply cut specific foods out of their diet. It's still possible to balance fat intake/carb intake/etc. The primary issue with vegetarian diets is that they lack amino acids that are only found in meat. It's usually compensated by a diet supplement pill of some kind.
Vegetarianism is a passably healthy way to live. The only visible effects are yellowing skin or thinner hair.
Those are the effects of an extremely poorly planned vegetarian diet. Visible effects of a well planned diet include a healthy body weight, clear skin and a stable emotional state.
On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
I'm linking the videos because they say what I want to say without me having the transcribe them. You seem to think that calling them 'sensational' somehow makes you a valid point, which it does not. If you want to be convinced, then have a think logically and objectively about the following quotes:
A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children. ~David Brenner
You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey Diamond
Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler, Note-Books, 1912
Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney
Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw
One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau
How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg
The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard
Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner. ~Lynda Montgomery
Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard Shaw
We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he could. ~James Cromwell
If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d. lang
Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson
Being a meat eater is really expensive, even if you don't count the cost of chemo. ~Snargleplexon.com
My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George Bernard Shaw
I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs
Vegetarianism is harmless enough though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchison, address to the British Medical Association, 1930
Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends. ~Author Unknown
Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
For the most part, we carnivores do not eat other carnivores. We prefer to eat our vegetarian friends. ~Robert Brault, www.robertbrault.com
My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis, "Garfield" (Please note: In its original context, this is NOT about vegetarianism)
Vegetarians taste better. ~Author Unknown
Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy Rooney
Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat? ~Author Unknown
I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita Rudner
Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne
Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians. ~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"
The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs' milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper
Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom
Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk
I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me. ~Alex Poulos
We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang
Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly
I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows. ~George Bernard Shaw
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ~Author Unknown
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that. ~Oscar Wilde
There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer
I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your mouth. ~Bernie Wilke, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Thanksgiving dinner's sad and thankless Christmas dinner's dark and blue When you stop and try to see it From the turkey's point of view. ~Shel Silverstein, "Point of View"
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson
Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky
You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw
I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush
I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark
"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy
As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never forget. ~Cloris Leachman
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Queen Mab Notes
Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse 1997
I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thanks, Eric)
Think of me tonite For that which you savor Did it give you something real, or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor? ~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe. I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav Nijinsky
Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous
On June 04 2011 06:59 Deadlyfish wrote: If I kill 1000 cows, it wouldnt matter if i did it for pleasure or for survival, at least not to the cows. You could say that it was mean and wrong to kill them, and you would have a point. But to suggest that it matters to anyone but yourself why they were killed is silly. That is what i have a problem with. Your reasoning is based on some philosophical moral on what is wrong or right, but it doesnt help the animals at all, which is the whole point in the first place isnt it? If your moral was that "we shouldnt kill animals" then the reason for killing would be irrelevant.
The reason for them being killed isn't irrelevant. It is much more moral to kill something for survival than it is to kill something for pleasure. It is much easier to use a human example since its easier to empathize w/ humans. Consider both situations, killing someone to survive, and killing someone for pleasure. The latter is obviously less moral.Your right in saying that I don't make a huge impact on the living conditions of animals, but if everyone adopted the same philosophy than it would since most people don't need to eat meat to survive. To me, morals are extremely important. They support strong societies, strong communal bonds, have the potential to raise living conditions of people etc...
EDIT: there is just no reason for me to eat meat since I think it is wrong and (for me) unnecessary.
On June 04 2011 03:08 Ravencruiser wrote: So OP, answer in one short paragraph or less please: Why DON'T you care more about animals that are used for medical/product testing (which undergo much more suffering than animals that are simply killed for food)?
I DO care about animals that are used for experiments - that is why I am against vivisection and try to avoid products that are animal tested. See the following:
Again with a sensational video... If the product is not tested on animals, how can we know it's safe? Should we test it on humans immediately? Let's try all new medicines on humans first. Better yet, don't try the medicines at all before putting it in use.
And don't say something stupid like "we don't need new products."
It's not 'sensationalist' - it is simply showing the footage of how animal testing is carried out. If we watch a documentary on slavery in history, it's not 'sensationalist'. It's a documentary on how it occurred.
"I have studied the question of vivisection for thirty-five years and am convinced that experiments on living animals are leading medicine further and further from the real cure of the patient. I know of no instance of animal experiment that has been necessary for the advancement of medical science; still less do I know of any animal experiment that could conceivably be necessary to save human life." -H. Fergie Woods, M.D.
"Giving cancer to laboratory animals has not and will not help us to understand the disease or to treat those persons suffering from it." - Dr. A. Sabin, 1986, developer of the oral polio vaccine
On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
I'm linking the videos because they say what I want to say without me having the transcribe them. You seem to think that calling them 'sensational' somehow makes you a valid point, which it does not. If you want to be convinced, then have a think logically and objectively about the following quotes:
A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children. ~David Brenner
You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey Diamond
Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler, Note-Books, 1912
Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney
Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw
One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau
How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg
The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard
Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner. ~Lynda Montgomery
Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard Shaw
We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he could. ~James Cromwell
If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d. lang
Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson
Being a meat eater is really expensive, even if you don't count the cost of chemo. ~Snargleplexon.com
My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George Bernard Shaw
I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs
Vegetarianism is harmless enough though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchison, address to the British Medical Association, 1930
Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends. ~Author Unknown
Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
For the most part, we carnivores do not eat other carnivores. We prefer to eat our vegetarian friends. ~Robert Brault, www.robertbrault.com
My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis, "Garfield" (Please note: In its original context, this is NOT about vegetarianism)
Vegetarians taste better. ~Author Unknown
Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy Rooney
Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat? ~Author Unknown
I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita Rudner
Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne
Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians. ~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"
The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs' milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper
Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom
Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk
I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me. ~Alex Poulos
We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang
Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly
I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows. ~George Bernard Shaw
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ~Author Unknown
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that. ~Oscar Wilde
There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer
I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your mouth. ~Bernie Wilke, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Thanksgiving dinner's sad and thankless Christmas dinner's dark and blue When you stop and try to see it From the turkey's point of view. ~Shel Silverstein, "Point of View"
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson
Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky
You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw
I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush
I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark
"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy
As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never forget. ~Cloris Leachman
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Queen Mab Notes
Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse 1997
I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thanks, Eric)
Think of me tonite For that which you savor Did it give you something real, or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor? ~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe. I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav Nijinsky
Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous
I wish someone you quoted actually knew what they were talking about. There isn't a single person there actually associated with the meat industry. I actually find this to be a common theme. How come the people who actually work with these animals are never the ones to speak out against the "atrocities" we are committing. That is because, when you actually get to know the animals that we have bred to eat, you learn to hate them.
Chickens are some of the most disgusting, horrible, and cruel creatures on the planet. A chicken will gladly trample another chicken to death to get to its food trough. Cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, rabbits, ducks, geese, fish, all are not intelligent enough to be even self aware. Should I care what an animal thinks when it doesn't even know that it exists?
I grew up with animals, both as pets and for food. By the time I was 8 I could kill and eviscerate a chicken blindfolded. I don't by an moral justification for being a vegan because I know these animals. They were created purely to feed us. They wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us selectively breeding them, and they are meat factories. To liken them to humans and to apply human morals to them is insanity.
On June 04 2011 07:40 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: am i stupid for expecting some recipes and cool pictures when i clicked on this thread? im not a vegan/vegetarian at all but wouldve liked to see if they are some dishes i might like
or is this just a place where side A tries to convince side B that they are right?
You can easily find those sorts of recipes on the internet. I personally prefer debating type threads because I have a legal background and am interested in forums simply because of the discussions and arguments that occur.
If somebody created a Christianity thread, I would much rather click on it hoping for an atheist versus Christian debate on the existence of God rather than a whole bunch of Christians talking about what Church they go to and how to read the Bible in order to get a fulfilling 'relationship with God'.
So, essentially, this entire thread is just you executing a very high level, sophisticated trolling attempt, for nothing other than your own personal use/amusement?
On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
I'm linking the videos because they say what I want to say without me having the transcribe them. You seem to think that calling them 'sensational' somehow makes you a valid point, which it does not. If you want to be convinced, then have a think logically and objectively about the following quotes:
A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children. ~David Brenner
You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey Diamond
Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler, Note-Books, 1912
Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney
Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw
One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau
How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg
The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard
Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner. ~Lynda Montgomery
Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard Shaw
We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he could. ~James Cromwell
If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d. lang
Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson
Being a meat eater is really expensive, even if you don't count the cost of chemo. ~Snargleplexon.com
My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George Bernard Shaw
I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs
Vegetarianism is harmless enough though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchison, address to the British Medical Association, 1930
Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends. ~Author Unknown
Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
For the most part, we carnivores do not eat other carnivores. We prefer to eat our vegetarian friends. ~Robert Brault, www.robertbrault.com
My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis, "Garfield" (Please note: In its original context, this is NOT about vegetarianism)
Vegetarians taste better. ~Author Unknown
Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy Rooney
Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat? ~Author Unknown
I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita Rudner
Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne
Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians. ~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"
The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs' milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper
Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom
Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk
I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me. ~Alex Poulos
We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang
Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly
I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows. ~George Bernard Shaw
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ~Author Unknown
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that. ~Oscar Wilde
There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer
I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your mouth. ~Bernie Wilke, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Thanksgiving dinner's sad and thankless Christmas dinner's dark and blue When you stop and try to see it From the turkey's point of view. ~Shel Silverstein, "Point of View"
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson
Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky
You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw
I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush
I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark
"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy
As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never forget. ~Cloris Leachman
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Queen Mab Notes
Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse 1997
I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thanks, Eric)
Think of me tonite For that which you savor Did it give you something real, or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor? ~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe. I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav Nijinsky
Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous
Serious question: where are you pulling all these giant piles of vegan-factiods from?
On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
I'm linking the videos because they say what I want to say without me having the transcribe them. You seem to think that calling them 'sensational' somehow makes you a valid point, which it does not. If you want to be convinced, then have a think logically and objectively about the following quotes:
A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children. ~David Brenner
You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey Diamond
Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler, Note-Books, 1912
Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney
Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw
One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau
How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg
The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard
Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner. ~Lynda Montgomery
Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard Shaw
We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he could. ~James Cromwell
If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d. lang
Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson
Being a meat eater is really expensive, even if you don't count the cost of chemo. ~Snargleplexon.com
My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George Bernard Shaw
I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs
Vegetarianism is harmless enough though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchison, address to the British Medical Association, 1930
Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends. ~Author Unknown
Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
For the most part, we carnivores do not eat other carnivores. We prefer to eat our vegetarian friends. ~Robert Brault, www.robertbrault.com
My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis, "Garfield" (Please note: In its original context, this is NOT about vegetarianism)
Vegetarians taste better. ~Author Unknown
Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy Rooney
Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat? ~Author Unknown
I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita Rudner
Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne
Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians. ~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"
The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs' milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper
Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom
Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk
I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me. ~Alex Poulos
We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang
Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly
I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows. ~George Bernard Shaw
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ~Author Unknown
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that. ~Oscar Wilde
There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer
I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your mouth. ~Bernie Wilke, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Thanksgiving dinner's sad and thankless Christmas dinner's dark and blue When you stop and try to see it From the turkey's point of view. ~Shel Silverstein, "Point of View"
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson
Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky
You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw
I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush
I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark
"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy
As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never forget. ~Cloris Leachman
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Queen Mab Notes
Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse 1997
I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thanks, Eric)
Think of me tonite For that which you savor Did it give you something real, or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor? ~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe. I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav Nijinsky
Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous
I'm going to respond to some of these quotes you linked.
Second quote: a baby drinks milk from its mother, it doesn't have teeth to eat either the apple or the rabbit. I fail to see the point. Even if it does have the teeth for it, I'd think a rabbit is actually quicker, stronger, more agile than the kid. It will get away.
Third quote: I fail to see the point.
Fourth: I have seen a slaughterhouse. I even linked a video to one before, where they did slaughter animals even though you said that they didn't show it. You just didn't look close enough.
Fifth: A sheep is turned back into mud which the acorn can then grow in.
Sixth: So? That farmer was wrong? I fail to see the point, yet again.
Seventh: I've heard that some people eat the eyes. How they do it? I imagine they put it in their mouths and chew.
Eighth: What? Are the animals the ones being killed or is it the human beings from eating the meat? Doesn't matter, I fail to see the point anyway.
Ninth: What's wrong with having a seafood restaurant at Sea World?
Tenth: My pets are my friends. I have two cats. If I had to kill them to survive, I'd do it.
Eleventh: We don't need to eat anything that couldn't run/swim/fly away either. It'd work perfectly fine to only eat those who could.
Twelfth: I know how meat is made. Depending on the meat of course. A cow is killed, stripped of its skin, cut into pieces and voila! We have meat.
Thirteenth: Okay, if you find a cow's life to be worth as much as your own kid's then sure, don't eat meat. Don't expect me to feel the same way, though.
Fourteenth: You're referring to cancer? You get cancer from most everything these days. Besides, here in Sweden, my treatment is free. Also, doesn't matter if it costs much. A ferrari costs a lot as well.
Fifteenth: Cannibalism? Cannibalism is to eat someone of your own species. A cow is not a human being. It cannot be cannibalism.
Sixteenth: If we stop eating chickens or using them for eggs, they will most probably die out anyway. We need the space for our plants that we shall eat instead.
Seventeenth: Okay, cool. You feel better about yourself when being a vegetarian. Good for you. Don't think it will do the same for everyone, though.
Eighteenth: Okay? Coolio. I have other things to worry about.
Nineteenth: I often use the fork to put vegetables in my mouth as well. Perhaps I am alone in this.
Twentieth: We're omnivores, you should look it up. It means that we eat most everything.
Twentyfirst: Okay? So there is some meat or something something in milk? So what?
Twentysecond: Meatballs and spaghetti, that's awesome.
Twentythird: Cool, I should try eating one of you guys sometime, then.
Twentyfourth: ?
Twentyfifth: They eat stuff that tastes like meat but isn't meat so why shouldn't they eat animal crackers?
Can't be bothered replying to more of these stupid quotes. Come up with stuff of your own to say instead of using stuff that others have thought about. They aren't even making sense.
Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
Sorry, i meant animals then ;P. Its late here, ill have to go to bed i guess.
And to clarify, I have no problem with people not being nice to "elitist vegetarians/vegans".
Edit: Oh well, one last thing before i go. I think the best way for both sides of the argument would be if we would be able to create meat (and i really mean create, not grow an animal and kill it. Really grow the meat itself, like how skin is grown for medical purposes. I think i read somewhere that this area of research is progressing a bit at the time.) Eating this kind of meat would at least in my opinion fall within the boundaries of a vegetarian diet. Actually i would like to see some opinions on that issue from other vegetarians/vegans.
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
Sorry, i meant animals then ;P. Its late here, ill have to go to bed i guess.
And to clarify, I have no problem with people not being nice to "elitist vegetarians/vegans".
Edit: Oh well, one last thing before i go. I think the best way for both sides of the argument would be if we would be able to create meat (and i really mean create, not grow an animal and kill it. Really grow the meat itself, like how skin is grown for medical purposes. I think i read somewhere that this area of research is progressing a bit at the time.) Eating this kind of meat would at least in my opinion fall within the boundaries of a vegetarian diet. Actually i would like to see some opinions on that issue from other vegetarians/vegans.
As you say, that kind of thing is being worked on. But then the other problem comes up with the activist groups that say that that kind of stuff is not "natural" (whatever that means) and that because it is not "natural" it is bad.
They protest against new kinds of grain as well, since they're genetically modified. Higher crop yields to feed more people is apparently bad.
On June 04 2011 04:42 Iranon wrote:As an outdoorsy guy, many of my friends are hunters, and I have absolutely no problem with eating hunted meat. If I'm over their house and they cooked up an awesome venison thing, sure, I'll have that. All the hunters I know are very respectful ones, not assholes with guns who just like killin' shit. There is certainly a place in the world for killing animals for food, just not so much doing it by the millions.
I actually first became a vegetarian myself BECAUSE of hunting. I witnessed a kid's mother being shot and dying, and the kid being too young to understand to run away. It just kept trying to cuddle its mother and it was wailing because its mother died. We took the mother home for food and kept the kid as a pet, but as the years went by I could see how much better it would have been for the kid to have continued living in the wild with its mother. Animals that are hunted have families too and we shouldn't take that away from them simply because we want to eat them. See the 6:25 mark in the following video:
All you're doing is trying to get us emotional by linking these sensational videos. Do you have anything better to say because these don't convince me of anything other than that some animals (perhaps even many) are being treated badly and something could/should/must be done about that.
It does not, however, convince me to stop eating meat.
I'm linking the videos because they say what I want to say without me having the transcribe them. You seem to think that calling them 'sensational' somehow makes you a valid point, which it does not. If you want to be convinced, then have a think logically and objectively about the following quotes:
A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children. ~David Brenner
You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey Diamond
Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler, Note-Books, 1912
Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively, intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection... nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family. ~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon
If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney
Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw
One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau
How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg
The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal Barnard
Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner. ~Lynda Montgomery
Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard Shaw
We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he could. ~James Cromwell
If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d. lang
Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson
Being a meat eater is really expensive, even if you don't count the cost of chemo. ~Snargleplexon.com
My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George Bernard Shaw
I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs
Vegetarianism is harmless enough though it is apt to fill a man with wind and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchison, address to the British Medical Association, 1930
Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends. ~Author Unknown
Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
For the most part, we carnivores do not eat other carnivores. We prefer to eat our vegetarian friends. ~Robert Brault, www.robertbrault.com
My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis, "Garfield" (Please note: In its original context, this is NOT about vegetarianism)
Vegetarians taste better. ~Author Unknown
Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy Rooney
Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat? ~Author Unknown
I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita Rudner
Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne
Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians. ~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"
The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs' milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper
Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom
Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk
I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me. ~Alex Poulos
We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?" ~k.d. lang
Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly
I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows. ~George Bernard Shaw
A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard Shaw
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ~Author Unknown
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that. ~Oscar Wilde
There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer
I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your mouth. ~Bernie Wilke, quoted in Joanne Stepaniak, The Vegan Sourcebook, 1998
Thanksgiving dinner's sad and thankless Christmas dinner's dark and blue When you stop and try to see it From the turkey's point of view. ~Shel Silverstein, "Point of View"
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson
Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky
You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw
I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush
I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark
"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy
As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never forget. ~Cloris Leachman
We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank. ~Rabindranath Tagore
Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Queen Mab Notes
Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977
To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi
A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse 1997
I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables, and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thanks, Eric)
Think of me tonite For that which you savor Did it give you something real, or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor? ~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein
I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe. I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav Nijinsky
Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous
I wish someone you quoted actually knew what they were talking about. There isn't a single person there actually associated with the meat industry. I actually find this to be a common theme. How come the people who actually work with these animals are never the ones to speak out against the "atrocities" we are committing. That is because, when you actually get to know the animals that we have bred to eat, you learn to hate them.
Chickens are some of the most disgusting, horrible, and cruel creatures on the planet. A chicken will gladly trample another chicken to death to get to its food trough. Cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, rabbits, ducks, geese, fish, all are not intelligent enough to be even self aware. Should I care what an animal thinks when it doesn't even know that it exists?
I grew up with animals, both as pets and for food. By the time I was 8 I could kill and eviscerate a chicken blindfolded. I don't by an moral justification for being a vegan because I know these animals. They were created purely to feed us. They wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us selectively breeding them, and they are meat factories. To liken them to humans and to apply human morals to them is insanity.
You think people who work in the meat industry remain silent about animal cruelty because they hate animals??? Not because they'll be, uh, FIRED?
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
Animals are treated badly because people eat them... It's not like theres no connection between wanting animals to be treated well and asking about/informing/suggeting vegetarianism to other people.
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
Animals are treated badly because people eat them... It's not like theres no connection between wanting animals to be treated well and asking about/informing/suggeting vegetarianism to other people.
That is not true. http://vimeo.com/22077752 Watch that one. Does it look like those animals are being treated badly? Doesn't to me. Why not strive to achieve that instead?
I want people to preach to me about vegetarianism as much as I want them to preach to me about religion. Both are the same, to me, though I can understand vegetarianism a lot more than religion and I don't automatically assume vegetarians are stupid. If they start preaching, though, I take them for pretentious douchebags.
I wouldn't tell you to start eating meat, I expect you to give me the same courtesy.
On June 04 2011 11:17 ChinaRestaurant wrote: Oh how i love the attitude thrown towards vegetarians and vegans in here. Nowhere else nowadays will you find people being more butthurt except for maybe SC2 when a terran player comes along.
Cant be too hard to have some sense of decency when dealing with other persons. Why would you make fun of someone who tries not to harm any living thing?
Plants are living. Why hurt them? It's totally okay to be a vegan/vegetarian. Just don't say I should stop eating meat because some animals in the world are being treated badly. Instead, make it so that those animals are not being treated badly.
Sorry, i meant animals then ;P. Its late here, ill have to go to bed i guess.
And to clarify, I have no problem with people not being nice to "elitist vegetarians/vegans".
Edit: Oh well, one last thing before i go. I think the best way for both sides of the argument would be if we would be able to create meat (and i really mean create, not grow an animal and kill it. Really grow the meat itself, like how skin is grown for medical purposes. I think i read somewhere that this area of research is progressing a bit at the time.) Eating this kind of meat would at least in my opinion fall within the boundaries of a vegetarian diet. Actually i would like to see some opinions on that issue from other vegetarians/vegans.
As you say, that kind of thing is being worked on. But then the other problem comes up with the activist groups that say that that kind of stuff is not "natural" (whatever that means) and that because it is not "natural" it is bad.
They protest against new kinds of grain as well, since they're genetically modified. Higher crop yields to feed more people is apparently bad.
To bad those higher crop yields are not going to feed more people but rather to feed more animals so westerners can continue to increase their meat consumption.
EPT
