EPTOn May 28 2011 04:22 Chocobo wrote:
I just flipped a coin. Do you believe it landed with the "heads" side facing up?
I just flipped a coin. Do you believe it landed with the "heads" side facing up?
Nope.
Student gets ostracized for refusing to pray - Page 57
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Olinim
4044 Posts
Nope. | ||
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KoKoRo
United States186 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:22 Chocobo wrote: I just flipped a coin. Do you believe it landed with the "heads" side facing up? The possibility that it landed on standing up is there too. However small that chance may be. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:22 Chocobo wrote: I just flipped a coin. Do you believe it landed with the "heads" side facing up? Perfect place to fit in a Schroedinger's cat joke. | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:23 DoubleReed wrote: Dear Lord in Heaven, agnosticism isn't what the thread is about! Stop trying to convince the guy is an atheist. No one cares. He says he's agnostic. Can we move on? This is about separation of church and state. This is about Christians who completely ostracized someone for upholding the law. This is about atheists coming to aid of a kid who did something stupid but right IMO. Why do you call it stupid? Are you saying it's stupid to stand up for your rights and fight against illegal activities if the risk of personal loss exists? | ||
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jxx
Brazil307 Posts
What he is asking for is no more than that the law be followed but some people like this teacher of his, who humiliated him publicly, think that just because this is a 70 year old tradition and no one ever complained then it is above the law, which is absolutely ridiculous for me. I am rooting for this guy in every way possible and wish him only the best. | ||
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KoKoRo
United States186 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:26 Chocobo wrote: Why do you call it stupid? Are you saying it's stupid to stand up for your rights and fight against illegal activities if the risk of personal loss exists? It's probably stupid because he risked his life on accident. | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
Bleh, fine. I didn't realize you're purely arguing semantics, in that case you are correct. | ||
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PhuxPro
United States294 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:26 Chocobo wrote: Why do you call it stupid? Are you saying it's stupid to stand up for your rights and fight against illegal activities if the risk of personal loss exists? Except there was no personal loss. The only thing the kid would have gained from that is being able to sit down or something for the remainder of the prayers in the cathedral. To start something up for just that is pretty stupid. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:26 Chocobo wrote: Why do you call it stupid? Are you saying it's stupid to stand up for your rights and fight against illegal activities if the risk of personal loss exists? Er... is there anything to show that the kid was brave and actually knew the real risks to his personal life? Sorry, I just kind of doubt that he would have gone through with it if he knew he was going to be disowned from his family... I just assumed that he did not expect the shitstorm that ensued. If he really knew what he was getting into then more power to him. But he's a kid, and I sincerely doubt it. | ||
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TraneMason
Germany17 Posts
Are religious fanatics still such a big deal in the US? It is hard to believe, knowing that most people in our western culture kinda abandoned a life strictly according to the bible, even if they are Christian. I am still a member of the christian church, but I am sane enough to not take every word in the bible literally. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:31 DoubleReed wrote: Er... is there anything to show that the kid was brave and actually knew the real risks to his personal life? Sorry, I just kind of doubt that he would have gone through with it if he knew he was going to be disowned from his family... I just assumed that he did not expect the shitstorm that ensued. If he really knew what he was getting into then more power to him. But he's a kid, and I sincerely doubt it. Right, he reported this in confidence then his name was leaked and he was harassed. However he still had to go against a very strong religious presence at the school to question what is going on. The whole agnostic debate in this thread is off topic, but it was just counter the opinion that atheism is a religion, which it is not. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:22 Chocobo wrote: I just flipped a coin. Do you believe it landed with the "heads" side facing up? It's hard to be purely agnostic towards a subject that has arguments both for and against it. We know nothing about your coin, so we come to no conclusion / opinion. I find it unlikely that anyone here finds all of the arguments for the existence of God equally convincing as all of the arguments against the existence of God. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On May 28 2011 03:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Agnosticism can't be a religion or have anything in common with it because it deals purely with facts and has nothing to do with belief. Strong forms of theism and atheism deal with making claims of knowledge that they don't actually posses, making them similar in that regard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_atheism Hmm, what would you call an atheist that says : Statement that god exist is "false"/wrong, because there is no proof that he exists. I used "false" as there is no definition of truth within science. He makes no claim outside of epistemology, specifically scientific method. No claim of knowledge is in such a statement. It is just a statement that basically means, concept of god is useless from the point of view of describing the universe. For such an atheist, when he says there is no god, he means god-concept is irrelevant in the same way as unicorn or fhsdfhjks or opkhanic,.... | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:30 PhuxPro wrote: Except there was no personal loss. The only thing the kid would have gained from that is being able to sit down or something for the remainder of the prayers in the cathedral. To start something up for just that is pretty stupid. I don't know where you read things wrong, but we're talking about the opposite side of things. There's risk to his personal life by standing up to the man. I sincerely doubt he expected it to turn into what it did. | ||
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Otak
United Kingdom110 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:35 mcc wrote: Hmm, what would you call an atheist that says : Statement that god exist is "false"/wrong, because there is no proof that he exists. I used "false" as there is no definition of truth within science. He makes no claim outside of epistemology, specifically scientific method. No claim of knowledge is in such a statement. It is just a statement that basically means, concept of god is useless from the point of view of describing the universe. For such an atheist, when he says there is no god, he means god-concept is irrelevant in the same way as unicorn or fhsdfhjks or opkhanic,.... Pretty sure that would be some form of Strong Atheism, assuming I understood you correctly. You have to realize that claiming a statement is false is claiming you know something. To know something isn't true is just as much a form of knowledge as knowing something is true. If you were going for something more like this though: Negative atheism refers to any other type of non-theism, wherein a person doesn't hold a belief in the existence of any deity, but does not claim that same statement "There is at least one god" is false. That would be akin to Weak Atheism. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:23 VIB wrote: I disagree, you do can believe that you don't know  Maybe you just admit you don't know enough to form an opinion?There are asymetrical questions where answer "I do not know" means "yes" or "no". On the current example of believing in god : answering "yes" means that you actual undertook active action of believing, whereas answering "no" is passive. Therefore if you "don't know" if you believe in god, you actually do not believe in him as believing is active action that you would know if you made it. | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:31 DoubleReed wrote: Er... is there anything to show that the kid was brave and actually knew the real risks to his personal life? Sorry, I just kind of doubt that he would have gone through with it if he knew he was going to be disowned from his family... I just assumed that he did not expect the shitstorm that ensued. If he really knew what he was getting into then more power to him. But he's a kid, and I sincerely doubt it. He expected some backlash, but nothing on the level of what happened, especially not being kicked out by his parents. Maybe you can say it was a bad choice for his personal life. I thought you were calling the act of standing up for his rights stupid though, if that's not what you meant then I misunderstood. | ||
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bioniK
United States65 Posts
On May 28 2011 04:33 TraneMason wrote: It is hard to believe that there are Christians out there who would threaten a child for doing something like this. It goes against most ideals of this religion. Are religious fanatics still such a big deal in the US? It is hard to believe, knowing that most people in our western culture kinda abandoned a life strictly according to the bible, even if they are Christian. I am still a member of the christian church, but I am sane enough to not take every word in the bible literally. Its not as much religion as it is tradition, kid knew that they were going to do this and its a big deal cause its almost like a coming to age thing. The community basically sees him as trying to upset that and take away something very important to them. Most of the southern states do have rich tradition when it comes to things like this, and when you try to take that away from them well then you can pretty much expect the same treatment that kid got. As for the religious "fanatics" being a big deal, no there is a very small minority of people willing to do irrational things when it comes to religion, but religion is a really hot topic that a lot of people try to avoid but it inevitably comes up simply due to the fact that we have a lot of different people from different backgrounds. People see America as a country thats supposed to be progressive, but in reality the many diverse backgrounds of our people is making it harder for us to be united and move foward as a country. | ||
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