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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
On November 25 2015 00:02 LegalLord wrote:
Well... can't say I'm surprised. This is coming from the country that cuts diplomatic ties with any nation that acknowledges the Armenian Genocide. They're neither an ally nor business partner and were it not for their strategic positioning, no one would want to have anything to do with them. Sooner or later they were bound to do something stupid enough to gain attention.
As apposed to the dream friendly neighbour Russia.
Please. Don't make me laught.
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On November 25 2015 04:34 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Even if everyone believe's Turkeys story about the 1,4 miles of airspace the ground attack aircraft 'violated' we are expected to believe that in those 10 seconds a Turkish fighter jet was informed the target had entered Turkey, got authorisation from Ankara, informed the SU-24 that they will be shot down and fired that missile... all in 10 seconds... Anyway the Russian MOD put out a statement that anyone threatening Russian military aircraft during anti-terrorist operations will be destroyed. They have deployed the cruiser Moskva with the AA system 'Fort' (similar to the S-300) and it will be doing the destroying. Russian MOD map: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lUKIqOy.jpg) This has been confirmed by the Syrian Air Defence. No attempt was made by the Turkish aircraft to contact the SU-24, it was stuck by a missile in Syrian territory and fell 4km from the border.
edit: Also according to this the SU-24 never entered Turkish airspace but the F-15 entered Syrian airspace to attack it and then left.
Sigh, hit quote instead of edit -.-
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On November 25 2015 04:34 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Even if everyone believe's Turkeys story about the 1,4 miles of airspace the ground attack aircraft 'violated' we are expected to believe that in those 10 seconds a Turkish fighter jet was informed the target had entered Turkey, got authorisation from Ankara, informed the SU-24 that they will be shot down and fired that missile... all in 10 seconds... Anyway the Russian MOD put out a statement that anyone threatening Russian military aircraft during anti-terrorist operations will be destroyed. They have deployed the cruiser Moskva with the AA system 'Fort' (similar to the S-300) and it will be doing the destroying. Russian MOD map: This has been confirmed by the Syrian Air Defence. No attempt was made by the Turkish aircraft to contact the SU-24, it was stuck by a missile in Syrian territory and fell 4km from the border.
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUkbwtuUAAAlPfL.png)
According to this the russian jets violated turkish airspace twice. More then enough time to warn them before they entered first, before they entered a second time and to warn them before shooting one of them down. If the russians open fire on jets legitimaly defending turkish airspace they will probably lose the cruiser too.
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On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it.
So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful.
On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS".
If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying.
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On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace.
not defending anything, but I never heard anything like this...
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On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying.
There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS.
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On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying.
Turkey is simultaneously killing Kurds, who fight ISIS, and funding ISIS by buying their oil.
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On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying.
syria is just a mess. there are more rebel groups than states in europe 1700 and neither russia nor turkey are focussing on IS. russia is fighting against the rebel groups that are closer to assads centers of power because they are the larger threat to assad and turkey is bombing the kurdish groups. so yeah, both arent fighting IS and there are a shit ton of targets to choose from if you have other intentions. its definately no we vs them scenario there.
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On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS.
And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state.
There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state.
And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist state
Together they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live (and work) in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant.
The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want.
People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol?
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On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist stateTogether they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol?
These are the "rebels."
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On November 25 2015 05:13 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist stateTogether they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol? These are the "rebels."
Please point to the better option in the region to work with in Syria. I'll wait.
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On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist state Together they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live (and work) in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol?
Of course they could. They have modern western weapons. You think the Turkish military is some rag tag group or something? Russian cruisers are old as shit.
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On November 25 2015 05:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:13 Deathstar wrote:On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:
[quote]
that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist stateTogether they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol? These are the "rebels." Please point to the better option in the region to work with in Syria. I'll wait.
We can either work with Syria and Russia to combat the jihadis and in return, Assad can stay in power.
Or, we (US) can send in troops into both Syria and Iraq and end this
The US, with our new understanding, can create new countries to better represent the ethnic groups. Kurdistan (northern Syria + northern Iraq), Sunni state in Iraq, Shia state in Iraq
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People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol?
You do realize that the turks have missile cruisers too, right? Eight of them? Yes, they're almost 40 years old, but so is the moskva.
You bet they could take out a single missile cruiser, easily. I think you have a wrong idea of their military.
edit: apart from the 180 F-16s, which also would be capable enough.
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On November 25 2015 05:16 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist state Together they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live (and work) in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol? Of course they could. They have modern western weapons. You think the Turkish military is some rag tag group or something?
The Russian MOD has stated they will be deploying and using state of the art anti-NATO jamming equipment immediately which they weren't using until now because they had an agreement with the US not to mess with each other in Syria.
Turkey would get rofl-rolled in any case.
edit: Not like Turkey would have the balls to try anything like this anymore, personally I think it was a tad bit naive of the Russian air-force not to have ground attack planes covered by fighter aircraft on every mission.
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On November 25 2015 04:59 Cuce wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:On November 25 2015 03:57 xM(Z wrote:
can you even grasp the idea that the plane went down in Syria not in Turkey?. that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. not defending anything, but I never heard anything like this...
to reiterate/specify - you need to hit the plane while over your airspace else you're sending missiles into your neighbors back yard. if your missile crosses into another country's airspace, you did an act of war.
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On November 25 2015 05:21 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:15 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 05:13 Deathstar wrote:On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:
[quote]
it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist stateTogether they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol? These are the "rebels." Please point to the better option in the region to work with in Syria. I'll wait. We can either work with Syria and Russia to combat the jihadis and in return, Assad can stay in power. Or, we (US) can send in troops into both Syria and Iraq and end this
You can't, you were ten years in Iraq and utterly failed, brought nothing but death, misery and destruction and changed a sunni with a shia dictator. They'll never accept whatever comes from you any action on the ground will only result in additional death and misery without bringing any kind of solution. They have understandably enough of you and even a psychopathic outfit like the Islamic State needs to be on the rampage for atleast two more decades until they will have killed anywhere the number of iraqis the US government did.
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Yeah it was deployed already, now they just moved it closer to the Turkish border and turned the safety off.
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On November 25 2015 05:24 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 05:16 heliusx wrote:On November 25 2015 05:10 zeo wrote:On November 25 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On November 25 2015 04:17 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:14 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:04 Plansix wrote:On November 25 2015 04:02 xM(Z wrote:On November 25 2015 04:00 zlefin wrote:
[quote]
that doesn't mean it wasn't shot while in Turkey. Planes go pretty fast, they can crash quite aways from where they're hit. it doesn't matter. you have to shoot it and the plane has to go down in your country to not be in violation of international laws. it's why nothing happens when war planes regularly cross other countries airspace. Because they have approval to fly over from those nations, which is worked out in advance. If the US says don't send a warplane over our airspace, no one is going to do it. Russia was told to stop and didn't. i'm not excusing the russians. they played in on the fact that turks could only half-ass the shooting of russian war planes, but saying Turkey was 100% right/justified in their action is stupid. Very few acts of violence are 100% justified or right. But this is what happens when nations are as cocky as Russia has been lately. At some point someone pushes back and lights your shit up. People have forgotten that this is how a lot of nations used to enforce their boarders. We used to be way more trigger happy back in the 60-70-80s. And Cannon's has it right that there is a proxy war going on. Turkey doesn't support Assad and assisting the rebels fighting him. And Russia isn't fighting ISIS like it claims and everyone knows it. So Turkey is supporting the so called "rebels", that are basically satelites of ISIS. And this somehow is helpful. On the other hand Russia is bombing the same "rebels", again the satelites of ISIS, and that is "not fighting ISIS". If Turkey really wanted to fight ISIS, ISIS wouldn't exist right now. Just saying. There are a number of rebels that are not part of ISIS. And? There is the Islamic front which wants an Islamic salafist state. There is al-Nusra, which wants to create an Islamic salafist state. And there is ISIS which wants to create an Islamic salafist state Together they make up around 95% of all forces opposed to the Syrian government. The secular opposition is a minority within a minority and they basically live (and work) in Turkey where they post fanfiction on facebook about how they are relevant. The only reason they aren't all one thing is because of internal power struggles but they all want the same thing, a salafist Islamic state where they can be as crazy as they want. People actually believe Turkey could take out a Russian missile cruiser? lol? Of course they could. They have modern western weapons. You think the Turkish military is some rag tag group or something? The Russian MOD has stated they will be deploying and using state of the art anti-NATO jamming equipment immediately which they weren't using until now because they had an agreement with the US not to mess with each other in Syria. Turkey would get rofl-rolled in any case. edit: Not like Turkey would have the balls to try anything like this anymore, personally I think it was a tad bit naive of the Russian air-force not to have ground attack planes covered by fighter aircraft on every mission. if everything fails, russia can ask north korea to deploy their secret technology to keep NATO in check...
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EPT
