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Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 167

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Please guys, stay on topic.

This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 11 2013 18:20 GMT
#3321
A German teenager has died in Syria just days after arriving to fight on side of rebels opposing the forces of President Bashar al-Assad, it has been reported.


Source



"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-11 21:46:33
December 11 2013 21:46 GMT
#3322
Homs, Syria this Winter:

[image loading]

NICOSIA — Hizbullah has lost another top commander.

Lebanese sources said Hizbullah lost a leading military commander
deployed in Syria. They said Ali Bazi, who grew up in the southern Lebanese
town of Bint Jbeil, was killed in heavy fighting with Sunni rebels near the
Syrian border with Lebanon on Dec. 8.

“Ali Hussein Bazi died a martyr as he was carrying out his sacred duty as a jihadist,” a statement from the Lebanese town of Bint Jbeil said.

The sources said Bazi was one of the top commanders in the Hizbullah force in Syria, estimated at nearly 10,000. They said Bazi, reportedly married with three children who lived in Sidon, was in charge of the western sector and led a battle against a Sunni stronghold in the Qalamoun region near the Lebanese border.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
December 11 2013 23:35 GMT
#3323
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.
hazeh
Profile Joined November 2013
France9 Posts
December 12 2013 14:13 GMT
#3324
On December 12 2013 08:35 Roggay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.


And how the fuck do you know that Assad is a nasty dictator? Experienced it first hand? Or do you believe the western news when they tell you who you've got to hate and just go along for the fun of it?

Syria is an independent country, arming rebels to overthrow a legitimate government elected by it's people is an outright war provocation. You do realize that by believing all these bullshiters you guys call leftists like Amy "I'll support any revolution as long as it's not in the US or in Saudi Arabia" Goodman, or Noam "Let's talk about US atrocities 20 years back but anything too recent is conspiracy theory" Chomsky you're supporting war in the middle east exactly as much as if you supported a Bush? Except now of course you're bombing countries to save the civilians... Of course...
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
December 12 2013 15:50 GMT
#3325
On December 12 2013 23:13 hazeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2013 08:35 Roggay wrote:
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.


And how the fuck do you know that Assad is a nasty dictator? Experienced it first hand? Or do you believe the western news when they tell you who you've got to hate and just go along for the fun of it?

Syria is an independent country, arming rebels to overthrow a legitimate government elected by it's people is an outright war provocation. You do realize that by believing all these bullshiters you guys call leftists like Amy "I'll support any revolution as long as it's not in the US or in Saudi Arabia" Goodman, or Noam "Let's talk about US atrocities 20 years back but anything too recent is conspiracy theory" Chomsky you're supporting war in the middle east exactly as much as if you supported a Bush? Except now of course you're bombing countries to save the civilians... Of course...

Wtf? Way to cherry-pick... I was condamning the rebels too, not only Assad.

Anyway, there is more than enough proofs, at this point, that horrific war crimes have been committed on BOTH side (or how many sides there are in this conflict), even when ignoring the chemical stuff.
I'm not siding with anyone because of this. Assad is definitly not a "good" dictator, but at this point, I really don't believe the rebels are any better.
hazeh
Profile Joined November 2013
France9 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-12 16:31:29
December 12 2013 16:12 GMT
#3326
On December 13 2013 00:50 Roggay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2013 23:13 hazeh wrote:
On December 12 2013 08:35 Roggay wrote:
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.


And how the fuck do you know that Assad is a nasty dictator? Experienced it first hand? Or do you believe the western news when they tell you who you've got to hate and just go along for the fun of it?

Syria is an independent country, arming rebels to overthrow a legitimate government elected by it's people is an outright war provocation. You do realize that by believing all these bullshiters you guys call leftists like Amy "I'll support any revolution as long as it's not in the US or in Saudi Arabia" Goodman, or Noam "Let's talk about US atrocities 20 years back but anything too recent is conspiracy theory" Chomsky you're supporting war in the middle east exactly as much as if you supported a Bush? Except now of course you're bombing countries to save the civilians... Of course...

Wtf? Way to cherry-pick... I was condamning the rebels too, not only Assad.

Anyway, there is more than enough proofs, at this point, that horrific war crimes have been committed on BOTH side (or how many sides there are in this conflict), even when ignoring the chemical stuff.
I'm not siding with anyone because of this. Assad is definitly not a "good" dictator, but at this point, I really don't believe the rebels are any better.


Proof? Where's the proof? Link plz.

And how would you feel if another country came to yours, paid the local muck to kill people and then presented them as national heroes on their news channels and then all the internet-savvy youth who thinks facebook is real life comes along and supports them?

Don't you think this sort of shit happened enough in the colonial era? Or do you think you're qualified to decide who is a good leader for all the middle eastern countries? I don't hear you criticizing Israel who using illegal weapons on civilians and expanding it's borders without ever being called out for it, or criticizing Saudi Arabia for being stuck 400 years in the past in a feudal model of state, or criticizing the UK for having the worst social mobility of any developed country, or the US and France for having destroyed Libya, etc, etc.

No, you come along and say out loud that Assad has got to go because you heard it in your latest "alternative media" radio show or whatever. This is why political action is pointless at this point, everyone is ready to believe any sort of bullshit thrown at them from any side.

I don't know if it's all-round apathy or just lack of credible news sources, but please, please, when you see all the mainstream media and alternative media chant in unison that the next new public enemy is X, or that the next hero whistle blower is going to blow your mind with the world-breaking news that intelligence agencies can intercept emails... Just stop and think for one second before leaping on the same old bandwagon of attacking the enemies of the West. It's pathetic to see the internet generation do the same shit as the last ones and feel hip and cool about it.

KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43989 Posts
December 12 2013 17:23 GMT
#3327
Sorry hazeh, but you think that no-one has ever called out Israel? This topic is not a make your own reality adventure game. You called out Israel in your own post ffs.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
December 12 2013 17:30 GMT
#3328
On December 13 2013 01:12 hazeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2013 00:50 Roggay wrote:
On December 12 2013 23:13 hazeh wrote:
On December 12 2013 08:35 Roggay wrote:
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.


And how the fuck do you know that Assad is a nasty dictator? Experienced it first hand? Or do you believe the western news when they tell you who you've got to hate and just go along for the fun of it?

Syria is an independent country, arming rebels to overthrow a legitimate government elected by it's people is an outright war provocation. You do realize that by believing all these bullshiters you guys call leftists like Amy "I'll support any revolution as long as it's not in the US or in Saudi Arabia" Goodman, or Noam "Let's talk about US atrocities 20 years back but anything too recent is conspiracy theory" Chomsky you're supporting war in the middle east exactly as much as if you supported a Bush? Except now of course you're bombing countries to save the civilians... Of course...

Wtf? Way to cherry-pick... I was condamning the rebels too, not only Assad.

Anyway, there is more than enough proofs, at this point, that horrific war crimes have been committed on BOTH side (or how many sides there are in this conflict), even when ignoring the chemical stuff.
I'm not siding with anyone because of this. Assad is definitly not a "good" dictator, but at this point, I really don't believe the rebels are any better.


Proof? Where's the proof? Link plz.

And how would you feel if another country came to yours, paid the local muck to kill people and then presented them as national heroes on their news channels and then all the internet-savvy youth who thinks facebook is real life comes along and supports them?

Don't you think this sort of shit happened enough in the colonial era? Or do you think you're qualified to decide who is a good leader for all the middle eastern countries? I don't hear you criticizing Israel who using illegal weapons on civilians and expanding it's borders without ever being called out for it, or criticizing Saudi Arabia for being stuck 400 years in the past in a feudal model of state, or criticizing the UK for having the worst social mobility of any developed country, or the US and France for having destroyed Libya, etc, etc.

No, you come along and say out loud that Assad has got to go because you heard it in your latest "alternative media" radio show or whatever. This is why political action is pointless at this point, everyone is ready to believe any sort of bullshit thrown at them from any side.

I don't know if it's all-round apathy or just lack of credible news sources, but please, please, when you see all the mainstream media and alternative media chant in unison that the next new public enemy is X, or that the next hero whistle blower is going to blow your mind with the world-breaking news that intelligence agencies can intercept emails... Just stop and think for one second before leaping on the same old bandwagon of attacking the enemies of the West. It's pathetic to see the internet generation do the same shit as the last ones and feel hip and cool about it.


I don't really know why you feel the need to be so aggressive. Plus, you are way beside the point again, this thread is not about Israel using weapons or w/e, nor about UK's social mobility etc...
I do agree that western countries are to blame too one way or another (they should have either done nothing, or fully commit to something, instead of this half-assed situation), but that is beside my original point and it says absolutely nothing about Assad.

You accuse me of following the mainstream media without thinking and yet you seem EXTREMELY biased yourself against everything remotely anti-Assad. And I really don't see the point to convince you, so I'm just gonna stop there.
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
December 12 2013 17:46 GMT
#3329
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
the black hole of suffering Libya has become.


I'm still waiting for "the west" to take responsibility for the crap they pulled there (not holding my breath though). The international media couldn't get enough of it when a picture needed to be painted, where are they now ? "the west" Wanted to improve the lives of the libyan people, right? Well, I sure hope nobody's keeping count.
International politics are like a horrible sitcom, but the network executives will keep rerunning it as long as people keep watching.........................I'll see myself out .


knuckle
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 12 2013 17:51 GMT
#3330
"Massive" ISIS offensive has begun:





http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.388315&lon=40.064993&z=15&m=b

Islamic battalions targeted regime camps with car bombs resulting in clashes between them and regime forces near the ammunition depots.
Deir Ezzor: A number of martyrs and wounded due to clashes with regime forces in Saeqa area and the #FSA announces liberating the whole area completely #LCCSy #Syria 3m





Also haven't heard anything since last night reports that Al-Nusra attacked Hezzbollah is Lebanon and clashes ongoing.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
December 12 2013 17:53 GMT
#3331
On December 13 2013 02:23 KwarK wrote:
Sorry hazeh, but you think that no-one has ever called out Israel? This topic is not a make your own reality adventure game. You called out Israel in your own post ffs.


[DERAIL]
If you're talking reality, Israel getting away with a lot of "questionable" stuff certainly is one. Have they been called on it ? Sure. Have there been actual represailles ? Not really. [/DERAIL]



knuckle
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 12 2013 20:20 GMT
#3332
BEIRUT — No one is expecting a tank invasion of Saudi Arabia anytime soon, but the kingdom just put in a huge order for U.S.-made anti-tank missiles that has Saudi-watchers scratching their heads and wondering whether the deal is related to Riyadh's support for the Syrian rebels.

The proposed weapons deal, which the Pentagon notified Congress of in early December, would provide Riyadh with more than 15,000 Raytheon anti-tank missiles at a cost of over $1 billion. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance report, Saudi Arabia's total stockpile this year amounted to slightly more than 4,000 anti-tank missiles. In the past decade, the Pentagon has notified Congress of only one other sale of anti-tank missiles to Saudi Arabia -- a 2009 deal that shipped roughly 5,000 missiles to the kingdom.

"It's a very large number of missiles, including the most advanced version of the TOWs [tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided missiles]," said Jeffrey White, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a former intelligence analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency. "The problem is: What's the threat?"


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
December 12 2013 20:43 GMT
#3333
On December 13 2013 05:20 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
BEIRUT — No one is expecting a tank invasion of Saudi Arabia anytime soon, but the kingdom just put in a huge order for U.S.-made anti-tank missiles that has Saudi-watchers scratching their heads and wondering whether the deal is related to Riyadh's support for the Syrian rebels.

The proposed weapons deal, which the Pentagon notified Congress of in early December, would provide Riyadh with more than 15,000 Raytheon anti-tank missiles at a cost of over $1 billion. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance report, Saudi Arabia's total stockpile this year amounted to slightly more than 4,000 anti-tank missiles. In the past decade, the Pentagon has notified Congress of only one other sale of anti-tank missiles to Saudi Arabia -- a 2009 deal that shipped roughly 5,000 missiles to the kingdom.

"It's a very large number of missiles, including the most advanced version of the TOWs [tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided missiles]," said Jeffrey White, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a former intelligence analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency. "The problem is: What's the threat?"


Source

Really looks like that would be enough to, quite literally, level the playing field.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 12 2013 20:59 GMT
#3334
Update on Kindi the Rebels have taken the Hospital but can't sweep and secure the area. small arms and rockets have threatened the structural integrity of the building:











Kindi Barracks:




SAA air drop:

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
December 12 2013 21:13 GMT
#3335
On December 13 2013 05:20 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
BEIRUT — No one is expecting a tank invasion of Saudi Arabia anytime soon, but the kingdom just put in a huge order for U.S.-made anti-tank missiles that has Saudi-watchers scratching their heads and wondering whether the deal is related to Riyadh's support for the Syrian rebels.

The proposed weapons deal, which the Pentagon notified Congress of in early December, would provide Riyadh with more than 15,000 Raytheon anti-tank missiles at a cost of over $1 billion. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance report, Saudi Arabia's total stockpile this year amounted to slightly more than 4,000 anti-tank missiles. In the past decade, the Pentagon has notified Congress of only one other sale of anti-tank missiles to Saudi Arabia -- a 2009 deal that shipped roughly 5,000 missiles to the kingdom.

"It's a very large number of missiles, including the most advanced version of the TOWs [tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided missiles]," said Jeffrey White, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a former intelligence analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency. "The problem is: What's the threat?"


Source


Interesting blog translating an interview with a guy who supposedly defected from the FSA. In it he claims that the Saudis have been sending arms to the FSA for some time. He also claims that the FSA has received cash from unknown sources assumed to be US or French intelligence, but that the US has refused to send anti-aircraft weapons. Also interesting he claims that some Syrian rebels are being trained by Westerners.

This blogger has been studying the weapons used in Syria, and does a ton of investigative research into the material that is posted online. MI5 supposedly follows his blog.

Brown Moses Blog
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 13 2013 05:50 GMT
#3336
(Reuters) - Chemical weapons were likely used in five out of seven attacks investigated by U.N. experts in Syria, where a 2 1/2-year civil war has killed more than 100,000 people, according to the final report of a U.N. inquiry published on Thursday.

The U.N. investigators said the deadly nerve agent sarin was likely used in four of the incidents, in one case on a large scale.

The report noted that in several cases the victims included government soldiers and civilians, though it was not always possible to establish with certainty any direct links between the attacks, the victims and the alleged sites of the incidents.

"The United Nations Mission concludes that chemical weapons have been used in the ongoing conflict between the parties in the Syrian Arab Republic," the final report by chief U.N. investigator Ake Sellstrom said.

The investigation found likely use of chemical weapons in Khan al-Assal, near the northern city of Aleppo, in March; in Saraqeb, near the northern city of Idlib, in April; and in Jobar and Ashrafiat Sahnaya, near Damascus, in August.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
December 13 2013 11:40 GMT
#3337
Well, I'm glad they got that sorted out......
knuckle
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43989 Posts
December 13 2013 11:42 GMT
#3338
On December 13 2013 05:20 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
BEIRUT — No one is expecting a tank invasion of Saudi Arabia anytime soon, but the kingdom just put in a huge order for U.S.-made anti-tank missiles that has Saudi-watchers scratching their heads and wondering whether the deal is related to Riyadh's support for the Syrian rebels.

The proposed weapons deal, which the Pentagon notified Congress of in early December, would provide Riyadh with more than 15,000 Raytheon anti-tank missiles at a cost of over $1 billion. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies' Military Balance report, Saudi Arabia's total stockpile this year amounted to slightly more than 4,000 anti-tank missiles. In the past decade, the Pentagon has notified Congress of only one other sale of anti-tank missiles to Saudi Arabia -- a 2009 deal that shipped roughly 5,000 missiles to the kingdom.

"It's a very large number of missiles, including the most advanced version of the TOWs [tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided missiles]," said Jeffrey White, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a former intelligence analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency. "The problem is: What's the threat?"


Source

The chance that if these are sold they won't end up being fired at Americans or American interests is basically zero imo.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
December 13 2013 18:18 GMT
#3339
B-but it's over $1 billion :/
knuckle
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-13 18:32:49
December 13 2013 18:23 GMT
#3340
On December 12 2013 23:13 hazeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2013 08:35 Roggay wrote:
On December 11 2013 23:01 zeo wrote:
On December 11 2013 16:49 frontliner2 wrote:
I'm sorry but from all I've seen I fully support the SAA side winning this war. Sure people need freedom of expression but that isn't going to be established through jihad and implementing Sharia by wahabi's and sunni extremism. Therefore I support SAA.

No reason to say you are sorry. The ones that should be sorry are the people that supported, or even worse funded the degenerate islamic terrorists causing havoc in a peaceful society. So easy not to see all the lives and people they are trampling while riding the very high horse.
Assad has stated numerous times that he will step down from power and put elections into motion. Of course stepping down while degenerate extremists are hungry for blood would hand them the country on a silver platter and turn Syria into the black hole of suffering Libya has become.

It's obviously not as simple as that.
I don't understand why I see so many comment making these kind of black and white distinctions between the two sides.

To me its like this : Hassad, his regime and w/e armed groups are backing him up, are evil. The FSA is rapidly turning more and more evil, and the terrorists/fundamentalist nutcases/al'qaeda are pure evil. Either way, Syria is fucked.

The true victims to me are all the civilians caught in this goddamn mess.


And how the fuck do you know that Assad is a nasty dictator? Experienced it first hand? Or do you believe the western news when they tell you who you've got to hate and just go along for the fun of it?

Syria is an independent country, arming rebels to overthrow a legitimate government elected by it's people is an outright war provocation. You do realize that by believing all these bullshiters you guys call leftists like Amy "I'll support any revolution as long as it's not in the US or in Saudi Arabia" Goodman, or Noam "Let's talk about US atrocities 20 years back but anything too recent is conspiracy theory" Chomsky you're supporting war in the middle east exactly as much as if you supported a Bush? Except now of course you're bombing countries to save the civilians... Of course...


You can actually find all of the evidence by following the links on Wikipedia. I won't provide you with a massive list of links that you can find and read for yourself, but there are a very wide array of sources, ranging from Al Jazeera, Reuters, and Human Rights Watch, to standard news sources such as the BBC, The Guardian, or the New York Times, all of which agree with each other through independent reporting on the violent crackdowns that occurred during the early days of the Syrian unrest. Here's a nice place to start to do some reading!

Civil Uprising Phase before the Civil War

You can't categorically deny all of this evidence as if its a big conspiracy among all news sources. Anyway it would be nice to hear from you what your sources are and why Bashar al-Assad is apparently just misunderstood by the whole world. If you have any evidence that all of these news reports were faked and that all the protesters were in fact terrorists, please point it out to us. Just don't use Syria's state-run media as your source, it should be independent .

Remember we can't have perfect objective certainty, but pretty much every source of information we have points to the inescapable conclusion that Assad authorized his security forces to fire live rounds on protesters, bringing in tanks as support, and who subjected boys and men to torture and beatings including the use of electrical shocks.

These same news agencies, by the way, also report on the atrocities committed by the rebels so it would be hard for you to claim that they are totally biased and won't report anything that supports the opposing side. I find it troubling that at this point, Assad might actually be right in that maybe half of the people he's fighting now are *actually* terrorists unlike when the protests began and it was just him killing his own people.
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