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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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stuneedsfood
45 Posts
On September 01 2013 22:56 Rassy wrote: What a failure. Saying they go attack and then backing of at the last minute because england doesnt join. What they gonna do now, wait till england changed their mind? Methinks its a little more complicated than that. | ||
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stuneedsfood
45 Posts
On September 01 2013 22:36 Rosie wrote: As Americans you uncomfortable to hear this, but you can make up your own, independent opinion just by looking at the problem from both sides. you have a right to assume that it Freemasonry fiction. this is the most comfortable position The entire world, including Russia, has traditionally supported a hardline stance against the use of chemical weapons. But now that they have been used, the support falls away, and you accuse the US of military expansion. Quite the about-face. | ||
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qotsager
Germany585 Posts
On September 01 2013 22:41 plgElwood wrote: Obama just said : " Our Government/Senat is on holiday, hope you are not get killed by assad, mr syrian-democrat, i hope you breathe sarin-gas mr syrian-islamist, we are not functionung until 9/9/13, k thx bai" that's one way to simplify things. | ||
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On September 01 2013 22:12 Joedaddy wrote: that is some hardcore conspiracy theory stuff lol. is that what they teach yall in school in mother russia? They drown them in propaganda. Russian media is entirely controlled by Putin, so they sell the gullible masses whatever claptrap they need to justify his political posturing. In this case it's painting intervening with their arms trade partner gassing civilians as "military expansionism". Anyone who thinks the US has anything to gain from attacking Assad is willfully out of touch with reality. "World Zionism enslaving a country". This is like Ahmadinejad-tier judenhass, surprised the guy isn't banhammered. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:39 unigolyn wrote: They drown them in propaganda. Russian media is entirely controlled by Putin, so they sell the gullible masses whatever claptrap they need to justify his political posturing. In this case it's painting intervening with their arms trade partner gassing civilians as "military expansionism". Anyone who thinks the US has anything to gain from attacking Assad is willfully out of touch with reality. "World Zionism enslaving a country". This is like Ahmadinejad-tier judenhass, surprised the guy isn't banhammered. And you think it's different in other parts of the world? I don't support Rosie's comments but there is hardly anything called a free press in the world anymore albeit one or two networks who are at least partially free. | ||
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stuneedsfood
45 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:49 sekritzzz wrote: And you think it's different in other parts of the world? I don't support Rosie's comments but there is hardly anything called a free press in the world anymore albeit one or two networks who are at least partially free. The media in Russia is much more state-controlled and directed than in most western democratic countries. Fact. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On September 01 2013 23:35 nunez wrote: un has not given a report on the latest incident yet. it is based on the arm-waivings of american, israeli and probably some other equally nefarious "intelligence agencies" as well at this point in time. latest update i read was that it would take approximately 2 weeks before it was done, even though the head of the investigation said it needed 4 weeks. it has now not only been tried marginalized through us officials statements, but it's actual quality has now also been compromised by them and other warmongers. I was talking about the May sarin attack, which has been confirmed albeit on a smaller scale, and the equally idiotic comment of the russian government saying it's "stupid to believe the syrian gov used chemicals" (especially when it happened before...). Saying "we don't know yet" would be the truth. DGSE and DRM are going to unclassify a note exposing the alleged proofs they have on the 21st of august attack in the next few hours. That would be a good starting point. And let me lol in advance to the UN report. What are you expecting them to bring on an official mission, 5 days after an attack, and authorized/put under close watch by the alleged culprits. It has already been said they might tell there WAS an attack but wouldn't be able to tell who did it. Covert intel, journalists (did it in May), and infiltrated forces would be the only people able to bring close to believable proofs. (oh and don't tell me we don't have those, I'm from the army xD) | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:56 Nouar wrote: I was talking about the May sarin attack, which has been confirmed albeit on a smaller scale, and the equally idiotic comment of the russian government saying it's "stupid to believe the syrian gov used chemicals" (especially when it happened before...). Saying "we don't know yet" would be the truth. DGSE and DRM are going to unclassify a note exposing the alleged proofs they have on the 21st of august attack in the next few hours. That would be a good starting point. are you talking about the attack where un investigators suspected the rebels of being the perpetrators (think it was in may)? or some other attack? link if so, and i will educate myself. saying "we don't know yet" is of course still the truth. even more so with the recent attacks (assuming you were talking about the one i think you're talking about). your post paints a different picture. not trusting waving hands seems like a good line, but it should be consistent. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:49 sekritzzz wrote: And you think it's different in other parts of the world? I don't support Rosie's comments but there is hardly anything called a free press in the world anymore albeit one or two networks who are at least partially free. Yep it's different in other parts of the world. Our press here in Germany has probably taken down about ten to twenty high ranked politicians in the last five years, probably have of them without any good reason. In most western countries the press can actually more or less write what they want. (And i think that's a good thing). No not every press on this planet is under their governments control, and not every state is like Russia. Sure, western countries also have a lot of not-so-good stuff going on, but you are not going to be put into prison because you are a regime-critic. If you don't believe me, use the internet and look up what happens to people in Russia when they openly criticize their government and then try to find cases like that in the US or other western countries. On topic: I actually think the way the EU and the USA are handling the Syrian conflict at the moment is a total desaster. Wether or not a military strike is a good thing, we should at least behave like we have some kind of coherent plan and not bring political tactics into it. I feel like most politicians nowadays are way to histeric and talking and drawing lines without thinking about it for five minutes. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 01 2013 18:43 sekritzzz wrote: As sad of a state as at it is but this is politics. To put it bluntly Obama doesn't really care about it being a precedent just like bush didn't really want to bring "democracy" to Iraq. They use it as a justification to have a moral reason so the people back it up when in reality most of their interventions have been in self-Interest. The report came out 6 days ago how the USA helped Saddam use CHemical weapons on the Iranians. Kind of how the afghan population used to be freedom fighters but today they are all terrorists because their invader changed. /politics http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/us-saddam-hussein_n_3815109.html Ah, you've caught on to the millenia old tradition of politicians and other powerful figures often saying one thing to justify brutal action in order to mask darker interests that the public would not agree with. I applaud you. I'm pretty sure it was decided years ago that Bush and Co. didn't actually care about "democracy" in Iraq. That wasn't even one of the original stated goals anyways. It was the imaginary WMDs/nukes. The democracy thing came into play when we realized the US people weren't going to buy myths anymore and Bush and Co. needed a reason to sell to the US people to justify being in Iraq. Speaking of which, the country's regime (which we pretty much hand-picked) is terribly authoritarian and brutal, during peacetime at that.. Democracy right? We gave chemical weapons to both sides in Iran-Iraq War, because it was in our interest for the war to drag on and wear down both countries. We also gave tons of other weapons to Iran, presumably to make up for Iraqi strategic superiority. Fortunately for the US, Khomeini was the most radical Islamist and the most stubborn man of the modern era, and would not accept peace at all until he was defeated (which he "accepted like a cup of poison"), so the war dragged on for 8 years instead of 2-3. Kind of how the afghan population used to be freedom fighters but today they are all terrorists because their invader changed Hehe. Since when are terrorists and Islamic extremists freedom fighters? Not only was the significant Soviet aid and development before the war were one of the few things to ever improve Afghanistan and move it forward in known history, but the Afghan govt. begged them to come in to deal with feral Islamists, which was followed by Soviet 'invasion'. Another question: How do you think the US public would react if it said it was supporting Islamists and terrorists instead of "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan during the 80s? Probably not well. Wording and twisting are very important in politics. | ||
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promiseme
28 Posts
Only few cases when some corrupt ppl that actually broke the law use politic to bring attention and cover their deeds. "They arrest me cos i am against Putin, and not cos i stole 500 millions dollars". kinda. Also you can be a gay in russia noone is banning gays. Saying it just in case =)(. Also that its not a regime, he is legimatly elected president. Plz, understand that ppl here in russia actually massively support Putin cos life got better during his leadership, and he is an awesome personality and leader in general. No matter what your western mass media try to convince you happening in russia. Cos i actually live in russia and can see real situation. On topic: the approach that US is taking is ridiculous - "they killed innocent ppl and kids, so we punish them by dropping bombs to kill more innocent ppl and kids." - an amazing strategy. If there is a crime, make serious investigation by all international and UN rules. Show all evidences. Find who, in person, made commands to use weapons. Then bring them to trial, Gaagas tribunal or whatever. So they get according punishment. US is taking some barbarian kind of actions. I srsly couldnt believe my ears when i heard obamas interview: that we should drop few bombs on the country to punish few ppl making some criminal actions against other ppl inside this country. And thats in 21 century... | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 01 2013 22:41 plgElwood wrote: Obama just said : " Our Government/Senat is on holiday, hope you are not get killed by assad, mr syrian-democrat, i hope you breathe sarin-gas mr syrian-islamist, we are not functionung until 9/9/13, k thx bai" We've done nothing for 2 years, why is there a sudden rush now? This thread is actually a fantastic record of what has been happening, way back to March 2011. | ||
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laegoose
Russian Federation325 Posts
Navalny is running election campaign for mayor of Moscow, and he can't get a single ad on TV or major radio stations. Hell, they don't let him get a single billboard. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:55 promiseme wrote: Nexisto, i really lold hard on your post on russia. Propaganda in action. There are tons of critic on putin and his party in russia presented on tv, press, radio, internet (tell me putin also controls internet). And noone being put into prison because of it. It was especially massive during recent elections. Then how come Russia is ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index? http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html And 176th out of 196 in the Freedom of the Press ranking? http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Global and regional tables.pdf | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:10 warding wrote: Then how come Russia is ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index? http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html And 176th out of 196 in the Freedom of the Press ranking? http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Global and regional tables.pdf I agree Russia's bad, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot better than a lot of countries, which is why I can't take this first list seriously. This list makes some really rankings. To note a couple examples, how a country in as terrible shape as Mali was top 30 (it only just recently fell 74 places) and how a democratic country like Turkey that the US swears by being very democratic and free is 154th is beyond my comprehension. I mean, Israel dropped 20 places (now at 112) because of a rumor they deliberately assassinate journalists. Seriously, what is this? | ||
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:53 nunez wrote: how to spot an estonian, episode 2. putin must have an insane schedule. That is a completely inane comment. "Putin controls the media" doesn't mean he's the editor in chief, it means the media is directed by the regime. EDIT: On September 02 2013 03:07 laegoose wrote: TV and radio are completely controlled by government here. Navalny is running election campaign for mayor of Moscow, and he can't get a single ad on TV or major radio stations. Hell, they don't let him get a single billboard. I guess you're Estonian, too. I never knew! | ||
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:55 promiseme wrote: Nexisto, i really lold hard on your post on russia. Propaganda in action. There are tons of critic on putin and his party in russia presented on tv, press, radio, internet (tell me putin also controls internet). And noone being put into prison because of it. It was especially massive during recent elections. Only few cases when some corrupt ppl that actually broke the law use politic to bring attention and cover their deeds. "They arrest me cos i am against Putin, and not cos i stole 500 millions dollars". kinda. Also you can be a gay in russia noone is banning gays. Saying it just in case =)(. Also that its not a regime, he is legimatly elected president. Plz, understand that ppl here in russia actually massively support Putin cos life got better during his leadership, and he is an awesome personality and leader in general. No matter what your western mass media try to convince you happening in russia. Cos i actually live in russia and can see real situation. On topic: the approach that US is taking is ridiculous - "they killed innocent ppl and kids, so we punish them by dropping bombs to kill more innocent ppl and kids." - an amazing strategy. If there is a crime, make serious investigation by all international and UN rules. Show all evidences. Find who, in person, made commands to use weapons. Then bring them to trial, Gaagas tribunal or whatever. So they get according punishment. US is taking some barbarian kind of actions. I srsly couldnt believe my ears when i heard obamas interview: that we should drop few bombs on the country to punish few ppl making some criminal actions against other ppl inside this country. And thats in 21 century... That's an amazing first post. PBU or Putinist shill? Take your pick! | ||
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On September 01 2013 03:55 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Then again, you live in a Russian satellite, how much do you know of what's going on in US politics? This is the most hilariously ironic thing I've seen in weeks. FYI, we're about the furthest thing from a Russian satellite nation. And if Ghan is anything like me, he probably knows more about US politics than 99% of Americans. That's the thing with cultural hegemony, every literate person in the world knows your domestic issues inside out. | ||
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
On September 02 2013 04:51 unigolyn wrote: This is the most hilariously ironic thing I've seen in weeks. FYI, we're about the furthest thing from a Russian satellite nation. And if Ghan is anything like me, he probably knows more about US politics than 99% of Americans. That's the thing with cultural hegemony, every literate person in the world knows your domestic issues inside out. Are you seriously going to make that claim? "Every literate person" is far too wide a net. | ||
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