Most of the tribes are in no position to back out of this fight. They can't throw their hands up and say "we give up" because anyone can see that the moment Gaddafi has full control he's going to be executing thousands of people to prevent a similar outburst.
Most of these leaders know very well that they can:
1) Win the war 2) Get executed 3) Live in exile
Giving up is not an option against Gaddafi. Even if the rebels fall apart and start fighting amongst each other i would figure that they would still resist Gaddafi and the entire country would probably end up in a civil war.
The best outcome is if Gaddafi is defeated, but even then i predict a civil war would be the outcome because these tribes agree on their hatred for Gaddafi but that is generally where the shared opinions end.
On March 09 2011 07:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Gaddafi jets bombing heavy populated civilian areas.
I`m sorry, but I dont see Gaddafi jets, neither heavy populated civilian areas.
And as I mentioned in the beggining of the thread, I`ve been to Libia and a lot my relatives have wokred there and the people there were not against Gaddafi at all, that why the rebels are losing momentum.
Reuters reports: Forces loyal to Gaddafi launch a bombardment near rebel positions around the east Libyan oil terminal of Sidrah, blowing up storage tanks at the facility.
On March 09 2011 20:54 mdb wrote: And as I mentioned in the beggining of the thread, I`ve been to Libia and a lot my relatives have wokred there and the people there were not against Gaddafi at all, that why the rebels are losing momentum.
Foreigners always stay in specific areas with some sort of monitoring by the authorities. Tripoli is also probably quite pro-Ghadaffi as they're more likely to have benefited from his reign.
The rebels are not losing because of a lack of support. Even those who supported Ghadaffi probably don't anymore since they've witnessed mercenaries shooting children and ambulances. It's very unlikely that they respect someone who ruled the country like it was its own house.
Did you know that Ghadaffi's wife actually froze clothing imports during Christmas so her own brand would have no competition? That over a quarell with one of his brothers, a son of Ghadaffi positioned his personal army in the local Coca Cola factory, stopping all the work? Such actions are quite eloquent of how the Ghadaffi clan worked.
RAS LANOUF, Libya – A giant yellow fireball shot into the sky, trailed by thick plumes of black smoke Wednesday after fighting between rebels and forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi set two oil installations ablaze and inflicted yet more damage on Libya's crippled energy industry.
In the west, Gadhafi claimed victory in recapturing Zawiya, the city closest to the capital that had fallen into opposition hands. The claim could not immediately be verified; phone lines there have not been working during a deadly, six-day siege.
The government twice promised to escort foreign journalists to Zawiya on Wednesday, only to cancel the visit at the last minute. But state TV showed a crowd of hundreds, purportedly in Zawiya's main square, shouting "The people want Colonel Gadhafi!"
On February 21 2011 06:26 Art.FeeL wrote: I think that of all those protests in the arab world, the Libyan one is the bloodiest. so many killed in such a short period of time =(....Down Gaddafi!!
Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's security forces detained and beat up a BBC news team who were trying to reach the strife-torn western city of Zawiya.
The three were beaten with fists, knees and rifles, hooded and subjected to mock executions by members of Libya's army and secret police.
The men were detained on Monday and held for 21 hours, but have now flown out of Libya.
...
"We were lined up against the wall. I was the last in line - facing the wall. I looked and I saw a plain-clothes guy with a small sub-machine gun. He put it to everyone's neck. I saw him and he screamed at me. Then he walked up to me put the gun to my neck and pulled the trigger, twice, the bullets whisked past my ear. The soldiers just laughed."
It sounds pretty horrible the treatment that the journalists were subjected to. Imagine what the other prisoners must suffer if they weren't directly look after by the British Foreign office. Some of the guys that the journalists talked to hadn't eaten or drank anything for three days. (Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/09/bbc-staff-arrest-torture-libya It's the same story as the one above but with a few different quotes). I don't think the rebels will be able to take Tripoli and kick out Gaddafi without significant losses so maybe some foreign intervention is needed considering the violence present?
Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's security forces detained and beat up a BBC news team who were trying to reach the strife-torn western city of Zawiya.
The three were beaten with fists, knees and rifles, hooded and subjected to mock executions by members of Libya's army and secret police.
The men were detained on Monday and held for 21 hours, but have now flown out of Libya.
...
"We were lined up against the wall. I was the last in line - facing the wall. I looked and I saw a plain-clothes guy with a small sub-machine gun. He put it to everyone's neck. I saw him and he screamed at me. Then he walked up to me put the gun to my neck and pulled the trigger, twice, the bullets whisked past my ear. The soldiers just laughed."
On top of the obvious inhumane aspects of these actions -- what a stupid thing to do. Just as the international community is on the fence as to whether they intervene or not, they rough up a handful of legitimate journalists? Makes support for a limited air campaign all the more likely.
My friends and I have a friend who went to Libya for school just before this started up. We just spotted him in a Sky News video. He is (was) in Zawiya (We don't know where he is. I'm hoping out of there). In the video he was in an ambulance with the reporters (No, he wasn't injured, just being transported to the hospital with what looked like other foreigners) and the ambulance was being fired at by government troops. He looked terrified. They made it safely. I hope he gets out of there soon. We urged him to leave right when this started but he figured it would be over fast and then he could continue school. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen anytime soon. The Canadian Government is flying people out, I don't know why he hasn't got on a plane yet. Nothing there is worth losing your life over.
Edit: Here's the video. He's shown at 9:13 wearing a blue plaid shirt and tan pants. I've never seen him that pale before.
On March 10 2011 15:48 Ben... wrote: My friends and I have a friend who went to Libya for school just before this started up. We just spotted him in a Sky News video. He is (was) in Zawiya (We don't know where he is. I'm hoping out of there). In the video he was in an ambulance with the reporters (No, he wasn't injured, just being transported to the hospital with what looked like other foreigners) and the ambulance was being fired at by government troops. He looked terrified. They made it safely. I hope he gets out of there soon. We urged him to leave right when this started but he figured it would be over fast and then he could continue school. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen anytime soon. The Canadian Government is flying people out, I don't know why he hasn't got on a plane yet. Nothing there is worth losing your life over.
Edit: Here's the video. He's shown at 9:13 wearing a blue plaid shirt and tan pants. I've never seen him that pale before.
Man that really sucks. I hope you'll get some news soon.
Seems like the situation is stuck, the Libyans will need foreign intervention for something to happen. Ghadaffi cannot organize a campaign to Benghazi and the Rebels will probably fail in Ben Jawad and Zawiyah... Also, Ghadaffi's accusations is the most f****ed up propaganda I've heard since Bush before the war of Irak.
This is what is wrong with our country and ever member of NATO. This should have been dealth with...there should be a no fly zone, and arms smuggling to the rebels should have been done along time ago via 3rd party like every other rebellion.
You want to support the people instead you let the dictatorship bomb them into oblivion with airplanes?
Just in the dutch news the 3 dutch soldiers who were caught by the Lybian army will be released. They will be delivered to either Malta or Greece and from there can go back to NL news confirmed in an interview with Gadaffi's son ( don't have the link sorry ). They will keep the helicopter though probably as some kind of prize or something.
New York times reports rebels flee from Ras Lanuf didn't read the article but here it is.
Also from New York Times France becomes first country to recognize Libyan rebels. The Netherlands is still neutral because of the dutch soldiers in Lybia
edit: Gadaffi's son didn't give a date on when they will get released yet so we're still cautious but a Greek airplane went to Lybia now which might be the plane to pick them up.
I`m sorry, but I dont see Gaddafi jets, neither heavy populated civilian areas.
And as I mentioned in the beggining of the thread, I`ve been to Libia and a lot my relatives have wokred there and the people there were not against Gaddafi at all, that why the rebels are losing momentum.
Maybe they weren't against him, maybe they were. I don't think the locals would have been openly speaking about how much they dislike Gaddafi to foreigners.
I lived there for six years, and my dad worked there for twelve, and in all of that time I think we only heard one or two people say something bad about Gaddafi, but that was because they became close personal friends of my family.
On March 11 2011 02:55 purecarnagge wrote: This is what is wrong with our country and ever member of NATO. This should have been dealth with...there should be a no fly zone, and arms smuggling to the rebels should have been done along time ago via 3rd party like every other rebellion.
You want to support the people instead you let the dictatorship bomb them into oblivion with airplanes?
It's an internal matter.
The great criticism of Western foreign policy of the past two decades has been intervention in the domestic affairs of other states. Ironically, too little intervention (Rwanda) has also been a hallmark. It's a fine line to walk, and the decision to do anything, especially a no-fly zone, is a huge committment and will involve the deaths of many people. You can't just say "OK, no-fly zone BAM" without realizing that many Libyans on the ground will die as a consequence of doing so.
Politicians will inevitably err on the side of expediency. It's easier and better to condemn the actions of Libya compared to actually doing anything about it.
Not to mention, what happens to Checnya? Tibet? List goes on...there are dozens of conflicts we could list that would, on a moral ground, require as much if not more intervention if you decide to do something concrete about Libya.
Good luck to the Libyan rebels, because it's in the hands of them, God, and whatever discrete support and under the table aid they get from the West and anti-Gaddafi forces to win this fight.
EPT![[image loading]](http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg610/scaled.php?tn=0&server=610&filename=unv5.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
![[image loading]](http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg618/scaled.php?tn=0&server=618&filename=0ujd.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
