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Libyan Uprising - Page 16

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 21:00:36
March 01 2011 21:00 GMT
#301
Guys, with Gadaffi batshit crazy, do you realize, how different would the situation be, if they still had nuclear weapons they used to have few years ago?
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
March 01 2011 21:14 GMT
#302
On March 02 2011 06:00 ondik wrote:
Guys, with Gadaffi batshit crazy, do you realize, how different would the situation be, if they still had nuclear weapons they used to have few years ago?


Technically (as far as is publicly known) they didn't have nukes but were expected to have an operational nuclear device (not necessarily deliverable) within a few years when Gadaffi agreed to give up the program in exchange for lifting of sanctions.

It would be pretty disastrous right now if he had those weapons though, that's for sure!
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
March 01 2011 21:18 GMT
#303
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
March 01 2011 21:35 GMT
#304
On March 02 2011 06:14 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 06:00 ondik wrote:
Guys, with Gadaffi batshit crazy, do you realize, how different would the situation be, if they still had nuclear weapons they used to have few years ago?


Technically (as far as is publicly known) they didn't have nukes but were expected to have an operational nuclear device (not necessarily deliverable) within a few years when Gadaffi agreed to give up the program in exchange for lifting of sanctions.


yea, you are right, I read they were pretty close, though!
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
Elegy
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1629 Posts
March 01 2011 22:02 GMT
#305
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
March 01 2011 22:07 GMT
#306
^dammit I was just going to link that BBC article, for the sake of hilariousness of his responses

Additionally, on BBC world I heard reports of bombings, but this is unconfirmed.
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
Zaraphiston
Profile Joined September 2010
United States26 Posts
March 01 2011 23:24 GMT
#307
I hope he gets defeated ASAP, the people of Lybia have been suffering too much.

Gadafi don't like it, rock the casbah!
wort wort wort
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
March 01 2011 23:34 GMT
#308
On March 02 2011 07:02 Elegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

Show nested quote +
The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855



If Serbia wasn't so close to Russia, we wouldn't have given a damn. Look at the difference between Serbia and Rwanda. Rwanda isn't strategically important; we spouted a few condemnations about the genocide and that was it. In Serbia, because of it's geographic location to Russia, it became an important strategic point to intervene. That's the difference. If it was a bunch of starving sub-Saharan Africans killing each other, the US wouldn't mobilize the 5th fleet to "monitor" the situation.
Elegy
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 23:55:06
March 01 2011 23:53 GMT
#309
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12616304

The BBC's Barbara Plett at the UN says this resolution seals Col Gaddafi's isolation as it is the body that represents all member states - the one where Libya might have expected to have some support and it has none.

However, she says there appears little appetite at the UN for a resolution imposing a no-fly zone over Libya, a move the UK in particular has been investigating.

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said the action could still be taken as "there have been occasions in the past when such a no-fly zone has had clear, legal, international justification even without a Security Council resolution".



On March 02 2011 08:34 0mar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 07:02 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855



If Serbia wasn't so close to Russia, we wouldn't have given a damn. Look at the difference between Serbia and Rwanda. Rwanda isn't strategically important; we spouted a few condemnations about the genocide and that was it. In Serbia, because of it's geographic location to Russia, it became an important strategic point to intervene. That's the difference. If it was a bunch of starving sub-Saharan Africans killing each other, the US wouldn't mobilize the 5th fleet to "monitor" the situation.


Concerns about Russia did not factor, in any way whatsoever, to intervention into Yugoslavia.

Not a single credible authority on that subject would ever suggest that geopolitical concerns about Russia were anything more than a passing mention in the politics behind the intervention.

Please don't talk about Rwanda, they are completely, utterly, and hugely different in so many ways its quite literally beyond effective comparison.

zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6298 Posts
March 02 2011 00:11 GMT
#310
On March 02 2011 07:02 Elegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

Show nested quote +
The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855


Here's a little article called 'Don't forget Yugoslavia'

+ Show Spoiler +
Don't Forget Yugoslavia

John Pilger digs beneath the received wisdom for the break-up of Yugoslavia and points to a largely ignored memoir by the former chief prosecutor in The Hague - and an echo from current events in the Caucasus.

By John Pilger

15/08/08 "ICH" -- - Even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province

The secrets of the crushing of Yugoslavia are emerging, telling us more about how the modern world is policed. The former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague, Carla Del Ponte, this year published her memoir The Hunt: Me and War Criminals. Largely ignored in Britain, the book reveals unpalatable truths about the west's intervention in Kosovo, which has echoes in the Caucasus.

The tribunal was set up and bankrolled principally by the United States. Del Ponte's role was to investigate the crimes committed as Yugoslavia was dismembered in the 1990s. She insisted that this include Nato's 78-day bombing of Serbia and Kosovo in 1999, which killed hundreds of people in hospitals, schools, churches, parks and tele vision studios, and destroyed economic infrastructure. "If I am not willing to [prosecute Nato personnel]," said Del Ponte, "I must give up my mission." It was a sham. Under pressure from Washington and London, an investigation into Nato war crimes was scrapped.

Readers will recall that the justification for the Nato bombing was that the Serbs were committing "genocide" in the secessionist province of Kosovo against ethnic Albanians. David Scheffer, US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced that as many as "225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59" may have been murdered. Tony Blair invoked the Holocaust and "the spirit of the Second World War". The west's heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose murderous record was set aside. The British foreign secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the Nato bombing over, international teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume the "holocaust". The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing "a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines". A year later, Del Ponte's tribunal announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide in Kosovo. The "holocaust" was a lie. The Nato attack had been fraudulent.

That was not all, says Del Ponte in her book: the KLA kidnapped hundreds of Serbs and transported them to Albania, where their kidneys and other body parts were removed; these were then sold for transplant in other countries. She also says there was sufficient evidence to prosecute the Kosovar Albanians for war crimes, but the investigation "was nipped in the bud" so that the tribunal's focus would be on "crimes committed by Serbia". She says the Hague judges were terrified of the Kosovar Albanians - the very people in whose name Nato had attacked Serbia.

Indeed, even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province. Last February the "international community", led by the US, recognised Kosovo, which has no formal economy and is run, in effect, by criminal gangs that traffic in drugs, contraband and women. But it has one valuable asset: the US military base Camp Bondsteel, described by the Council of Europe's human rights commissioner as "a smaller version of Guantanamo". Del Ponte, a Swiss diplomat, has been told by her own government to stop promoting her book.

Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent and multi-ethnic, if imperfect, federation that stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to dominate its "natural market" in the Yugoslav pro vinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991, a secret deal had been struck; Germany recognised Croatia, and Yugoslavia was doomed. In Washington, the US ensured that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans and the defunct Nato was reinvented as an enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo "peace" conference in France, the Serbs were told to accept occupation by Nato forces and a market economy, or be bombed into submission. It was the perfect precursor to the bloodbaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.


And another little article called 'Serbia: Kosovo's 300 billion dollars worth of coal in hands of U.S.'

+ Show Spoiler +
Billionaire Gorge Soros , Hillary Clinton and Albanian Billionaire Sahit Muja working hand by hand to get the aces to one of the worlds largest coal reserves worth more than 300 billion dollars in Kosovo. Government in Kosovo have promised to Clinton to give the deal to U.S companies.
Albanian Minerals CEO Sahit Muja have being in Kosovo 5 times this year with Soros representative and som other US companies. Gorge Soros, Hillary Clinton and Sahit Muja may benefit billions of dollars in this deal. Only 10% of this deal represent 30 billion dollars, 10 billion dollars each. Wars to control natural wealth worldwide have being a center of US foreign policy . This policy is evident in oil and mineral countries. War against Serbia was another example of US to get aces to Kosovo's natural wealth.
Kosovo has one of the worlds largest proven reserves of the coal in the world, with more than 15 billion tons of lignite, worth 300 billion dollars in today's market.
According to the Kosovo Independent Commission for Mines and Minerals (ICMM), lignite is of outstanding importance in Kosovo. It contributes 97 per cent of the country's total electricity generation, with just 3 per cent being based on hydro-power. At 14 700 Mt, Kosovo possesses the Europe's largest proven reserves of lignite. The lignite is distributed across the Kosovo, Dukagjin and Drenica basins, although mining has so far been restricted to the Kosovo Basin.
In 2006, Kosovo launched a tender for a 3.5 billion euro, 2,000 megawatt plant to turn the country into a regional power exporter and help deal with problems in electricity shortages.
But last November Kosovo, which has around 15 billion tonnes of coal, lignite, gave up on the project due to a lack of interest among investors who demanded better terms.The
Albanian and Serbian in Kosovo could live like the sheik's of the Gulf states. Kosovo’s wealth is underground in the form of lignite and bauxite as well as a whole range of minerals such as lead, zinc, nickel, silver, gold, copper, chrome and other metals worth hundreds of billions of dollars.


The truth is we have no idea of exactly what is going on over there, before the UN starts waving sanctions around there should be an [b]independent/b] investigation by the UN, instead of blindly soaking up everything that the western media spews out, like sheep.
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
Elegy
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1629 Posts
March 02 2011 00:35 GMT
#311
On March 02 2011 09:11 ahappystar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 07:02 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855


Here's a little article called 'Don't forget Yugoslavia'

+ Show Spoiler +
Don't Forget Yugoslavia

John Pilger digs beneath the received wisdom for the break-up of Yugoslavia and points to a largely ignored memoir by the former chief prosecutor in The Hague - and an echo from current events in the Caucasus.

By John Pilger

15/08/08 "ICH" -- - Even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province

The secrets of the crushing of Yugoslavia are emerging, telling us more about how the modern world is policed. The former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague, Carla Del Ponte, this year published her memoir The Hunt: Me and War Criminals. Largely ignored in Britain, the book reveals unpalatable truths about the west's intervention in Kosovo, which has echoes in the Caucasus.

The tribunal was set up and bankrolled principally by the United States. Del Ponte's role was to investigate the crimes committed as Yugoslavia was dismembered in the 1990s. She insisted that this include Nato's 78-day bombing of Serbia and Kosovo in 1999, which killed hundreds of people in hospitals, schools, churches, parks and tele vision studios, and destroyed economic infrastructure. "If I am not willing to [prosecute Nato personnel]," said Del Ponte, "I must give up my mission." It was a sham. Under pressure from Washington and London, an investigation into Nato war crimes was scrapped.

Readers will recall that the justification for the Nato bombing was that the Serbs were committing "genocide" in the secessionist province of Kosovo against ethnic Albanians. David Scheffer, US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced that as many as "225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59" may have been murdered. Tony Blair invoked the Holocaust and "the spirit of the Second World War". The west's heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose murderous record was set aside. The British foreign secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the Nato bombing over, international teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume the "holocaust". The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing "a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines". A year later, Del Ponte's tribunal announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide in Kosovo. The "holocaust" was a lie. The Nato attack had been fraudulent.

That was not all, says Del Ponte in her book: the KLA kidnapped hundreds of Serbs and transported them to Albania, where their kidneys and other body parts were removed; these were then sold for transplant in other countries. She also says there was sufficient evidence to prosecute the Kosovar Albanians for war crimes, but the investigation "was nipped in the bud" so that the tribunal's focus would be on "crimes committed by Serbia". She says the Hague judges were terrified of the Kosovar Albanians - the very people in whose name Nato had attacked Serbia.

Indeed, even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province. Last February the "international community", led by the US, recognised Kosovo, which has no formal economy and is run, in effect, by criminal gangs that traffic in drugs, contraband and women. But it has one valuable asset: the US military base Camp Bondsteel, described by the Council of Europe's human rights commissioner as "a smaller version of Guantanamo". Del Ponte, a Swiss diplomat, has been told by her own government to stop promoting her book.

Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent and multi-ethnic, if imperfect, federation that stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to dominate its "natural market" in the Yugoslav pro vinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991, a secret deal had been struck; Germany recognised Croatia, and Yugoslavia was doomed. In Washington, the US ensured that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans and the defunct Nato was reinvented as an enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo "peace" conference in France, the Serbs were told to accept occupation by Nato forces and a market economy, or be bombed into submission. It was the perfect precursor to the bloodbaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.


And another little article called 'Serbia: Kosovo's 300 billion dollars worth of coal in hands of U.S.'

+ Show Spoiler +
Billionaire Gorge Soros , Hillary Clinton and Albanian Billionaire Sahit Muja working hand by hand to get the aces to one of the worlds largest coal reserves worth more than 300 billion dollars in Kosovo. Government in Kosovo have promised to Clinton to give the deal to U.S companies.
Albanian Minerals CEO Sahit Muja have being in Kosovo 5 times this year with Soros representative and som other US companies. Gorge Soros, Hillary Clinton and Sahit Muja may benefit billions of dollars in this deal. Only 10% of this deal represent 30 billion dollars, 10 billion dollars each. Wars to control natural wealth worldwide have being a center of US foreign policy . This policy is evident in oil and mineral countries. War against Serbia was another example of US to get aces to Kosovo's natural wealth.
Kosovo has one of the worlds largest proven reserves of the coal in the world, with more than 15 billion tons of lignite, worth 300 billion dollars in today's market.
According to the Kosovo Independent Commission for Mines and Minerals (ICMM), lignite is of outstanding importance in Kosovo. It contributes 97 per cent of the country's total electricity generation, with just 3 per cent being based on hydro-power. At 14 700 Mt, Kosovo possesses the Europe's largest proven reserves of lignite. The lignite is distributed across the Kosovo, Dukagjin and Drenica basins, although mining has so far been restricted to the Kosovo Basin.
In 2006, Kosovo launched a tender for a 3.5 billion euro, 2,000 megawatt plant to turn the country into a regional power exporter and help deal with problems in electricity shortages.
But last November Kosovo, which has around 15 billion tonnes of coal, lignite, gave up on the project due to a lack of interest among investors who demanded better terms.The
Albanian and Serbian in Kosovo could live like the sheik's of the Gulf states. Kosovo’s wealth is underground in the form of lignite and bauxite as well as a whole range of minerals such as lead, zinc, nickel, silver, gold, copper, chrome and other metals worth hundreds of billions of dollars.


The truth is we have no idea of exactly what is going on over there, before the UN starts waving sanctions around there should be an [b]independent/b] investigation by the UN, instead of blindly soaking up everything that the western media spews out, like sheep.



When I first starting reading these "articles", I was really excited, but then I actually...well, read them. Then I thought, is he trolling? No one could possibly believe this article about coal, but maybe he thinks its true. Then I thought, TL does have some of the best trolls on the internet..perhaps its one of those? But then I saw your location as Serbia, and now I have this internal conflict between you either trolling, perhaps even by setting your location to Serbia to deceive me into thinking people actually believe this, but then at the same time I knew it couldn't be true (even if it could!) because its far too an elaborate attempt at trolling, but then I thought, hey, dreamxero did that sick series of troll blogs that everyone fell for, maybe its like that.
but....isn't it possible that article could be the Serbian version of the Onion....or maybe I'm overthinking things

I mean, that Kosovo article is so bad its beyond comprehension lol??? Did you know the Holocaust didn't happen? I read an article by a guy who said there wasn't any Zyklon B residue in the concrete tested out of death camps. Oh, and the Armenians were doing in Turkey, don't listen to those deniers. And the Native Americans? Warm blankets, ample financial compensation for land, and a welcoming, appreciative attitude towards cultural acceptance is fact in America!

I enjoyed it immensely", complete with its illogical jumps, complete lack of evidence, and grammar mistakes. Googling it, I found (surprisingly enough), only links to random (presumably Serbian?) blogs and a removed link to a WSJ discussion forum. Man oh man, the effort that went into making that article must put academic research to shame!

Just in case you can't tell, it's a load of bull with nothing to back it up.

oh well, back to Libya! I'm far too confused on whether you are trolling or not to dare go any further

The BBC article linked above does mention how little appetite there is at the UN for even a no fly zone, though it may extend sanctions against Gaddafi. it also says about 1k people have died, although how reliable those numbers are I've no idea.
Broodwich
Profile Joined February 2009
United States393 Posts
March 02 2011 02:32 GMT
#312
On March 02 2011 09:35 Elegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 09:11 ahappystar wrote:
On March 02 2011 07:02 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 06:18 HellRoxYa wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:23 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:18 EtherealDeath wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:15 Elegy wrote:
On March 02 2011 03:04 Blanke wrote:
Guys, you might wanna take a look at this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread668576/pg1

Seems the US is bringing in the heavy firepower now. Bombing runs in the near future against Gadafi?


No.

A no-fly zone does not necessarily entail bombing runs.

Perfectly normal for American warships to be positioned in volatile areas, especially given the uncertainty of the region. Moreover, in the event of a UN-enforced no fly zone or a NATO-esque intervention ala Serbia, American forces will, as usual in most cases, bear the vast majority of burden.

Besides, it's beyond hypocritical for people to suggest that Gaddafi should be removed by the application of any outside force, even to the point of enforcing a no-fly zone. Isn't regime change the great evil of western foreign policy?


As much I am all for it morally, it's still amusing how much national sovereignty rests on the power of your military, and the prevailing international mood of course, but the latter is kind of unreliable as opposed to the former.


Indeed. It's also amusing that, in general, people decry the great warmongering Amerikan Empire, yet at the same time anytime a global crisis breaks out with people dying, those same people invariably start asking where the nearest aircraft carrier is.

But I don't want to go (I recently discovered all these smilies and I am now a happy camper)


Okay, two things;
1. I'm not aware anyone asked the US to move their fleet. They're looking after their own interests, as always.
2. Having a large (by far the largest) army does not equal "a warmongering Amerikan Empire". If people ask the dominant military power of the world, who also happens to be an ally, to help out it's because they can and because they're an ally and you usually share common interests. Warmongering is besides the point. You also insinuate that noone else can take care of business and that's just not true.


Right, just like the US was looking after its own interests in Serbia as well?

Not to mention ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, which went unchecked and ignored until a US-led NATO intervention to stop it? An intervention that wouldn't have happened with the United States?

I'm sure the Dutch (UN in general actually) are real proud of their history at Srebrenica.

...and "warmongering Amerika" was a joke, a poke at people who still maintain the fiction that the US goes around invading countries for direct control of oil or something and other myths with no basis in fact, especially given how a two second google search reveals exactly which foreign companies hold Iraqi oil shares + which foreign countries import the most Iraqi oil. (hint, it's not America!) But that's another story and I'm going off topic again, so I'll stop.

On other news, refugee crisis in Libya is growing:

The UN says the situation on the Tunisian-Libyan border has reached "crisis point"

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees said an estimated 40,000 people, mostly Egyptians, were still waiting at the border trying to cross from Libya into Tunisia.

It said it was urgently appealing, along with the International Organisation for Migration, for governments to engage in "a massive humanitarian evacuation of tens of thousands of Egyptians and other third country nationals".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12606855


Here's a little article called 'Don't forget Yugoslavia'

+ Show Spoiler +
Don't Forget Yugoslavia

John Pilger digs beneath the received wisdom for the break-up of Yugoslavia and points to a largely ignored memoir by the former chief prosecutor in The Hague - and an echo from current events in the Caucasus.

By John Pilger

15/08/08 "ICH" -- - Even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province

The secrets of the crushing of Yugoslavia are emerging, telling us more about how the modern world is policed. The former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague, Carla Del Ponte, this year published her memoir The Hunt: Me and War Criminals. Largely ignored in Britain, the book reveals unpalatable truths about the west's intervention in Kosovo, which has echoes in the Caucasus.

The tribunal was set up and bankrolled principally by the United States. Del Ponte's role was to investigate the crimes committed as Yugoslavia was dismembered in the 1990s. She insisted that this include Nato's 78-day bombing of Serbia and Kosovo in 1999, which killed hundreds of people in hospitals, schools, churches, parks and tele vision studios, and destroyed economic infrastructure. "If I am not willing to [prosecute Nato personnel]," said Del Ponte, "I must give up my mission." It was a sham. Under pressure from Washington and London, an investigation into Nato war crimes was scrapped.

Readers will recall that the justification for the Nato bombing was that the Serbs were committing "genocide" in the secessionist province of Kosovo against ethnic Albanians. David Scheffer, US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced that as many as "225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59" may have been murdered. Tony Blair invoked the Holocaust and "the spirit of the Second World War". The west's heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose murderous record was set aside. The British foreign secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the Nato bombing over, international teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume the "holocaust". The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing "a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines". A year later, Del Ponte's tribunal announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide in Kosovo. The "holocaust" was a lie. The Nato attack had been fraudulent.

That was not all, says Del Ponte in her book: the KLA kidnapped hundreds of Serbs and transported them to Albania, where their kidneys and other body parts were removed; these were then sold for transplant in other countries. She also says there was sufficient evidence to prosecute the Kosovar Albanians for war crimes, but the investigation "was nipped in the bud" so that the tribunal's focus would be on "crimes committed by Serbia". She says the Hague judges were terrified of the Kosovar Albanians - the very people in whose name Nato had attacked Serbia.

Indeed, even as Blair the war leader was on a triumphant tour of "liberated" Kosovo, the KLA was ethnically cleansing more than 200,000 Serbs and Roma from the province. Last February the "international community", led by the US, recognised Kosovo, which has no formal economy and is run, in effect, by criminal gangs that traffic in drugs, contraband and women. But it has one valuable asset: the US military base Camp Bondsteel, described by the Council of Europe's human rights commissioner as "a smaller version of Guantanamo". Del Ponte, a Swiss diplomat, has been told by her own government to stop promoting her book.

Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent and multi-ethnic, if imperfect, federation that stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to dominate its "natural market" in the Yugoslav pro vinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991, a secret deal had been struck; Germany recognised Croatia, and Yugoslavia was doomed. In Washington, the US ensured that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans and the defunct Nato was reinvented as an enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo "peace" conference in France, the Serbs were told to accept occupation by Nato forces and a market economy, or be bombed into submission. It was the perfect precursor to the bloodbaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.


And another little article called 'Serbia: Kosovo's 300 billion dollars worth of coal in hands of U.S.'

+ Show Spoiler +
Billionaire Gorge Soros , Hillary Clinton and Albanian Billionaire Sahit Muja working hand by hand to get the aces to one of the worlds largest coal reserves worth more than 300 billion dollars in Kosovo. Government in Kosovo have promised to Clinton to give the deal to U.S companies.
Albanian Minerals CEO Sahit Muja have being in Kosovo 5 times this year with Soros representative and som other US companies. Gorge Soros, Hillary Clinton and Sahit Muja may benefit billions of dollars in this deal. Only 10% of this deal represent 30 billion dollars, 10 billion dollars each. Wars to control natural wealth worldwide have being a center of US foreign policy . This policy is evident in oil and mineral countries. War against Serbia was another example of US to get aces to Kosovo's natural wealth.
Kosovo has one of the worlds largest proven reserves of the coal in the world, with more than 15 billion tons of lignite, worth 300 billion dollars in today's market.
According to the Kosovo Independent Commission for Mines and Minerals (ICMM), lignite is of outstanding importance in Kosovo. It contributes 97 per cent of the country's total electricity generation, with just 3 per cent being based on hydro-power. At 14 700 Mt, Kosovo possesses the Europe's largest proven reserves of lignite. The lignite is distributed across the Kosovo, Dukagjin and Drenica basins, although mining has so far been restricted to the Kosovo Basin.
In 2006, Kosovo launched a tender for a 3.5 billion euro, 2,000 megawatt plant to turn the country into a regional power exporter and help deal with problems in electricity shortages.
But last November Kosovo, which has around 15 billion tonnes of coal, lignite, gave up on the project due to a lack of interest among investors who demanded better terms.The
Albanian and Serbian in Kosovo could live like the sheik's of the Gulf states. Kosovo’s wealth is underground in the form of lignite and bauxite as well as a whole range of minerals such as lead, zinc, nickel, silver, gold, copper, chrome and other metals worth hundreds of billions of dollars.


The truth is we have no idea of exactly what is going on over there, before the UN starts waving sanctions around there should be an [b]independent/b] investigation by the UN, instead of blindly soaking up everything that the western media spews out, like sheep.



When I first starting reading these "articles", I was really excited, but then I actually...well, read them. Then I thought, is he trolling? No one could possibly believe this article about coal, but maybe he thinks its true. Then I thought, TL does have some of the best trolls on the internet..perhaps its one of those? But then I saw your location as Serbia, and now I have this internal conflict between you either trolling, perhaps even by setting your location to Serbia to deceive me into thinking people actually believe this, but then at the same time I knew it couldn't be true (even if it could!) because its far too an elaborate attempt at trolling, but then I thought, hey, dreamxero did that sick series of troll blogs that everyone fell for, maybe its like that.
but....isn't it possible that article could be the Serbian version of the Onion....or maybe I'm overthinking things

I mean, that Kosovo article is so bad its beyond comprehension lol??? Did you know the Holocaust didn't happen? I read an article by a guy who said there wasn't any Zyklon B residue in the concrete tested out of death camps. Oh, and the Armenians were doing in Turkey, don't listen to those deniers. And the Native Americans? Warm blankets, ample financial compensation for land, and a welcoming, appreciative attitude towards cultural acceptance is fact in America!

I enjoyed it immensely", complete with its illogical jumps, complete lack of evidence, and grammar mistakes. Googling it, I found (surprisingly enough), only links to random (presumably Serbian?) blogs and a removed link to a WSJ discussion forum. Man oh man, the effort that went into making that article must put academic research to shame!

Just in case you can't tell, it's a load of bull with nothing to back it up.

oh well, back to Libya! I'm far too confused on whether you are trolling or not to dare go any further

The BBC article linked above does mention how little appetite there is at the UN for even a no fly zone, though it may extend sanctions against Gaddafi. it also says about 1k people have died, although how reliable those numbers are I've no idea.


Yeah, alleging that the US really cares about securing coal reserves doesn't make any sense when you realize the US has the largest coal reserves in the world, by far. Domestically we produce more coal a year than we consume. This is just stupid.

There are a few legit criticisms of the NATO occupation (that we didn't do a good job of policing the Kosovar Albanians actions against the Serbs and that the bombing of Serbia killed a fair amount of civilians), but really no one outside of Serbia believes it was actually unjustified or a bad idea, because of how horrifically bad the Serbians were towards the Kosovar Albanians.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 02 2011 05:05 GMT
#313
Russia has said it will veto any attempt at making Libya a no fly zone, so much for that.

Also Pro-government forces have taken back towns near the capital Tripoli.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
March 02 2011 05:14 GMT
#314
On March 02 2011 14:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Russia has said it will veto any attempt at making Libya a no fly zone, so much for that.

Also Pro-government forces have taken back towns near the capital Tripoli.


The security council voted against invading Iraq also, but it still happened. I wouldnt be suprised if the americans enforced it without the UN.

Ive also heard rumors that pro-government forces are starting to take the country back, sad day if all those people died for nothing.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 02 2011 05:23 GMT
#315

More from the Voices of Feb17 website, where an audio message said to be from an anti-government protester in the town of Az Zintan, 170km southwest of Tripoli.

The message says that young people in that town have taken the fight to pro-Gaddafi forces, launching a series of "preventative attacks" on army barracks, checkpoints and other installations to gather weapons and equipment.

It says that pro-Gaddafi forces have attacked the city three times so far, and each time they have been repelled. It is particularly dangerous after sunset, the protester says.

He also said that about 60 "mercenaries" in all have been captured by protesters. On the supply front, the city has received two car-loads of medical supplies from allies in Tripoli, and while there are some shortages of food, in general the situation is not dire.


Rebels receiving training:

[image loading]

[image loading]
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
March 02 2011 05:24 GMT
#316
On March 02 2011 14:14 Darpa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 14:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Russia has said it will veto any attempt at making Libya a no fly zone, so much for that.

Also Pro-government forces have taken back towns near the capital Tripoli.


The security council voted against invading Iraq also, but it still happened. I wouldnt be suprised if the americans enforced it without the UN.

Ive also heard rumors that pro-government forces are starting to take the country back, sad day if all those people died for nothing.

They took back couple of cities near Tripoli.
If they want to take back the whole country, it would have to be through civil war.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
March 02 2011 06:18 GMT
#317
On March 02 2011 14:14 Darpa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 14:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Russia has said it will veto any attempt at making Libya a no fly zone, so much for that.

Also Pro-government forces have taken back towns near the capital Tripoli.


The security council voted against invading Iraq also, but it still happened. I wouldnt be suprised if the americans enforced it without the UN.

Ive also heard rumors that pro-government forces are starting to take the country back, sad day if all those people died for nothing.

It's David Cameron, not the Americans, that wants to establish a no-fly zone.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2011/03/camerons_no-fly_zone_fervour_n.html

In other news China is sending forces into the region.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/asiaview/2011/03/chinas_foreign_policy
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 02 2011 06:24 GMT
#318
Anti-Gaddafi forces actually want air strikes from foreign powers but not direct boots on the ground intervention and I'm willing to bet they will get it as well as weapons and so forth maybe even discreet training.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
March 02 2011 06:37 GMT
#319
On March 02 2011 15:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Anti-Gaddafi forces actually want air strikes from foreign powers but not direct boots on the ground intervention and I'm willing to bet they will get it as well as weapons and so forth maybe even discreet training.


Imagine this happens and US passes weapons to rebels and even does air strikes. Then Gaddafi manages to retake control. We'll be surely see a grow in anti-american terrorism in this case.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
LaLLsc2
Profile Joined September 2010
United States502 Posts
March 02 2011 06:55 GMT
#320
On March 02 2011 15:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Anti-Gaddafi forces actually want air strikes from foreign powers but not direct boots on the ground intervention and I'm willing to bet they will get it as well as weapons and so forth maybe even discreet training.


I dont think any country would bomb Gaddafi.. Although I wish he would gtfo, i def dont think any country will help in such a direct manor..
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