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On November 27 2010 14:02 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 13:20 Elegy wrote:On November 27 2010 13:11 XRaDiiX wrote:On November 27 2010 12:46 Odyssey.561 wrote: redesch you couldn't be more wrong if you tryed. China isn't going to back NK or Russia either. If U.S. goes to war with NK it will be from them attacking our troops. Also China owns half of our economy almost there not going to go to war with us over NK. If a war happens US will bomb NK for a couple days if NK uses nukes the rest of the world will join in on the beat down. The only thing NK has going is US wants to minimize collateral damage in SK. Either way all i'm saying is china wont back NK garunteed and Russia could care less either way. Russia will join with who they think will win if WW3 ever happened. Much like the French in every war. The NK leaders need to be removed though there phycotic. Sorry but read head article on CNN tonight . http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/koreas.crisis/index.html?hpt=T1China pissed off about Us - South Korean Exersize Near North Korea. World war 3 China, North Korea, Iran, Lebananon, Pakistan etc. Vs US and allies (Russia will side with US we are now their allies trust me Russia is in bed with the US now) Not even close, man. This sort of post is simply completely misinformed. Lebanon? Are you serious? Pakistan? Not even to mention the China + NK + Iran leap you make here... I suggest you do some research and maybe talk to a few people who are slightly more aware of international issues and alliances before making such claims again. Pakistan is not allied with The US u have serious issues India is now with the US didn't they just have that big trip to their with all the economic leaders corporations etc. BTW India pakistanis hate eachother. China hate Indians too. They have disputes about the border lines all the time BTW don't come to criticize someone so harshly when you yourself have no clue to international alliances. North Korea is very interested in other countries that are enemies of the US because they need other countries to share tech/trade agreements with not just China. Obviously i'm being a little sarcastic about the middles eastern countries all allied with China but Its more likely for some of the ones i mentioned to ally with China because they are direct enemies of the US. Russia is leaning more toward being on the US side recently look it up Bud You are the misinformed one sorry but. Don't make substantial claims when you don't know yourself You do realise how angry China is at the US for the new arms Deal with Taiwan ( Territory China claims is theirs) Recently.
omg lol hes actually serious
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On November 27 2010 13:31 Zealotdriver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 13:20 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: I could of sworn the Chinese is the peace maker right now. They will side with whoever is attacked first. Last time i read. Which I thought is holding this together of not starting a war. Another nonsense post in this thread. Dr. Kill-Joy even confuses the contraction "'ve" with the word "of." On topic, this crisis is pretty much over. Eventually North Korea will become an open, capitalist country and may even unify with South Korea.
Sorry mate, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your comment is very premature. Especially when North Korea isn't the only ones making threats anymore. (See link.)
South Korea honors slain marines; commander vows 'thousand-fold' retaliation.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40375643
Also from the article:
The U.S. military said the exercises, planned long before Tuesday's attack, were designed to deter North Korea and were not aimed at China. A Pengaton spokesman said it was "important" to state publicly that the exercises were "not directed at China."
Honestly, I don't think China's buying it. No drills - period, seems to be their current stance.
Anywho, I predict a massive buildup of forces on both sides of the DMZ. After that, I think it's simply waiting for the pin to drop.
EDIT: What I find most bothersome about this article is simply the fact, as aforementioned, SK is now making threats. Historically, NK has been notorious for empty bravado, and SK generally searches for the peaceful route. (Taking the resolution of the ship sinking a few months ago.) I don't know how to judge a South Korean threat on this scale, especially when coming from their new commander, whom clearly looks to be fed up with negotiations and would prefer to resume the conversation of bullets.
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MAKE PEACE, AND AIM AT BRAZIL; WILL MAKE HEROES OF NEWERTH A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE.
User was warned for this post
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On November 27 2010 14:29 Blanke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 13:31 Zealotdriver wrote:On November 27 2010 13:20 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: I could of sworn the Chinese is the peace maker right now. They will side with whoever is attacked first. Last time i read. Which I thought is holding this together of not starting a war. Another nonsense post in this thread. Dr. Kill-Joy even confuses the contraction "'ve" with the word "of." On topic, this crisis is pretty much over. Eventually North Korea will become an open, capitalist country and may even unify with South Korea. Sorry mate, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your comment is very premature. Especially when North Korea isn't the only ones making threats anymore. (See link.) South Korea honors slain marines; commander vows 'thousand-fold' retaliation. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40375643Also from the article: The U.S. military said the exercises, planned long before Tuesday's attack, were designed to deter North Korea and were not aimed at China. A Pengaton spokesman said it was "important" to state publicly that the exercises were "not directed at China."Honestly, I don't think China's buying it. No drills - period, seems to be their current stance. Anywho, I predict a massive buildup of forces on both sides of the DMZ. After that, I think it's simply waiting for the pin to drop.
China doesn't want these drills to occur, because in its opinion, they are just creating unnecessary tensions. China understands NKR and knows that the best way to keep peace is to keep the waters calm. This isn't the US point of view, which traditionally believes peace is enforced by a show of clearly superior firepower. Therefore the disagreement on the drills.
I don't suspect either side wants a war right now. Although NKR is hard to predict, it is undergoing a transfer of power and is dealing with the internal issues that come of that. The attack was part of that process and so is the current "tough talk" coming from the leadership. It has nothing to do with South Korea or US warships. However, NK can be provoked to the point where it takes the charade too far and incites a war, and this is why China would prefer we leave them alone.
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I have a question and this will probably seem very ignorant since I haven't been paying attention really to news outside the US lately.
Why is China sooo opposed to a Carrier being deployed? They were earlier in the year and they seem really shaky about any US presence in the water surrounding their land. Why is this? The US and China are at least on semi good/decent terms yes? I don't get why they think 1 carrier and support ships would be any real threat to them anyway. Do people really see the US/China as being rivals? I always thought of them right now as friends that have disagreements (human rights/tibet/taiwan) that basically come down to some rumbles then get kicked under the rug except as political leverage once in a while.
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On November 27 2010 15:22 Slaughter wrote: I have a question and this will probably seem very ignorant since I haven't been paying attention really to news outside the US lately.
Why is China sooo opposed to a Carrier being deployed? They were earlier in the year and they seem really shaky about any US presence in the water surrounding their land. Why is this? The US and China are at least on semi good/decent terms yes? I don't get why they think 1 carrier and support ships would be any real threat to them anyway. Do people really see the US/China as being rivals? I always thought of them right now as friends that have disagreements (human rights/tibet/taiwan) that basically come down to some rumbles then get kicked under the rug except as political leverage once in a while.
The post above yours pretty much answers your question.
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A bit OT but can someone tell me why the pallbearers are wearing masks?
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On November 27 2010 16:15 XdtA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 15:22 Slaughter wrote: I have a question and this will probably seem very ignorant since I haven't been paying attention really to news outside the US lately.
Why is China sooo opposed to a Carrier being deployed? They were earlier in the year and they seem really shaky about any US presence in the water surrounding their land. Why is this? The US and China are at least on semi good/decent terms yes? I don't get why they think 1 carrier and support ships would be any real threat to them anyway. Do people really see the US/China as being rivals? I always thought of them right now as friends that have disagreements (human rights/tibet/taiwan) that basically come down to some rumbles then get kicked under the rug except as political leverage once in a while. The post above yours pretty much answers your question.
If so, why can't they just SAY that? They always frame their objections like its an affront/threat to their security/dominance of the region.
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On November 27 2010 17:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:A bit OT but can someone tell me why the pallbearers are wearing masks? ![[image loading]](http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/11/27/alg_korea_marine_funeral.jpg) I'm pretty sure the white masks are out of respect for the dead. Although I'd also like to know more.
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On November 27 2010 17:19 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 16:15 XdtA wrote:On November 27 2010 15:22 Slaughter wrote: I have a question and this will probably seem very ignorant since I haven't been paying attention really to news outside the US lately.
Why is China sooo opposed to a Carrier being deployed? They were earlier in the year and they seem really shaky about any US presence in the water surrounding their land. Why is this? The US and China are at least on semi good/decent terms yes? I don't get why they think 1 carrier and support ships would be any real threat to them anyway. Do people really see the US/China as being rivals? I always thought of them right now as friends that have disagreements (human rights/tibet/taiwan) that basically come down to some rumbles then get kicked under the rug except as political leverage once in a while. The post above yours pretty much answers your question. If so, why can't they just SAY that? They always frame their objections like its an affront/threat to their security/dominance of the region.
They do say it. But there is an element of mistrust there as well, especially among the older members of the PRC who are suspicious of the USA's affection for it's military capabilities. Their influence would be more minimal within Chinese politics if there weren't so many American weapons pointed at China proper from across the Taiwan Strait.
Just like many people in the States still don't trust the Chinese, many in China are still wary of the United States- and these attitudes help perpetuate that sense of rivalry among people. There is alot of history involved here as well. So if China is going to scold us for provoking NKR anyway, it's not to difficult for them to throw in the "and we're not comfortable with it just outside our waters either", given the suspicion that does exist.
Think how we'd feel about Russia if it was still constantly pouring weapons into Cuba, and how we'd respond to a Russian naval fleet practicing drills just south of Florida. Certainly we don't expect we'd go to war with Russia in the near future, but we'd certainly ask them to get their boats away from Florida on account of our own security interests.
Here's a blurb that sort of covers what we've been talking about:
http://www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10813687
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It seems like NK is threatening another military strike..
A few updates on twitter from a reporter in South Korea:
#DPRK issued clear warning it would conduct military strike in response to #ROK drills near NLL, which N. Korea doesn't recognize.
The warning was carried by N. Korean radio as a notice from the KPA Western Front command.
This is why important to monitor and analyze thoroughly #DPRK broadcasts which few outside of South Korea do.
It should be noted that S. Korea jams these broadcasts from the #DPRK making it difficult for us in Seoul to clearly record & analyze.
http://twitter.com/W7VOA
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On November 27 2010 18:31 xBillehx wrote:It seems like NK is threatening another military strike.. A few updates on twitter from a reporter in South Korea:#DPRK issued clear warning Aug. 3 it would conduct military strike in response to #ROK drills near NLL, which N. Korea doesn't recognize. The Aug. 3 warning was carried by N. Korean radio as a notice from the KPA Western Front command. This is why important to monitor and analyze thoroughly #DPRK broadcasts which few outside of South Korea do. It should be noted that S. Korea jams these broadcasts from the #DPRK making it difficult for us in Seoul to clearly record & analyze. http://twitter.com/W7VOA thanks for the timely update
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On November 27 2010 15:22 Slaughter wrote: I have a question and this will probably seem very ignorant since I haven't been paying attention really to news outside the US lately.
Why is China sooo opposed to a Carrier being deployed? They were earlier in the year and they seem really shaky about any US presence in the water surrounding their land. Why is this? The US and China are at least on semi good/decent terms yes? I don't get why they think 1 carrier and support ships would be any real threat to them anyway. Do people really see the US/China as being rivals? I always thought of them right now as friends that have disagreements (human rights/tibet/taiwan) that basically come down to some rumbles then get kicked under the rug except as political leverage once in a while.
NK serves as a buffer between the free world and china. jk, but really, the US and China are because of their status in the world and the fact that they aren't close allies. so china wants a stable NK, because if korea were to unify under south korean government, china would have to deal with a large US military presence on their front door. i'm not saying that the US intends to bomb the fuck out of china as soon as we can easily get to their mainland via korean peninsula..... but NK is a political and military buffer for china more than anything else, everybody in the region is invested in peace in korea
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No matter what way you look at it, because China got US and SK to change their exercises from the west to the east coast North Korea can claim a huge victory.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101127/ts_nm/us_korea_north1
+ Show Spoiler +SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea's Marine commander on Saturday vowed "thousand-fold" revenge for a North Korean attack that killed two servicemen as protesters demanded tougher action by the government against its reclusive neighbor. President Lee Myung-bak told ministers and aides to be ready for further "provocation" by North Korea during joint military maneuvers with the United States that start on Sunday. "There is the possibility that North Korea may do some unexpected action, so please perfectly prepare against it through cooperation with the Korea-U.S. joint force," Lee was quoted by a spokesman as saying. The two Marines were honored with a gun salute as families wailed and grim-faced officials saluted the funeral cortege, four days after North Korea rained shells on a tiny island in the heaviest attack on South Korea since the 1950-53 civil war. North Korea said that if there were civilian deaths, they were "very regrettable," but that South Korea should be blamed for forming a human shield. Two Marines and two civilians were killed in the attack. South Korea responded with artillery fire 13 minutes later, but it was not clear what damage was caused. "All Marines, including Marines on service and reserve Marines, will avenge the two at any cost, keeping today's anger and hostility in mind," said Lieutenant General Yoo Nak Joon, commander of the South Korean Marine Corps. "We will put our feelings of rage and animosity in our bones and take our revenge on North Korea." The funeral was followed by anti-North Korea protests in the capital as a U.S. nuclear-powered aircraft carrier headed for the maneuvers with South Korea, infuriating North Korea and prompting a warning from its only major ally, China. "It's time for action. Time for retaliation. Let's hit the presidential palace in Pyongyang," shouted close to 1,000 Marine veterans in downtown Seoul who burned photographs of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il and his anointed successor, son Kim Jung-un. Former members of the "Underwater Demolition Team," practiced in sabotage, protested against North Korea and against the government for ignoring their sacrifices on spy missions. Scuffles broke out and police used fire-extinguishers to break up the crowd. "We can not help expressing our anger about the behavior of the defense ministry and the government in general that failed to take due retaliatory action," the group said. South Korea's new defense minister called for tougher action, local media reported. A Seoul newspaper also reported the government plans to sharply increase defense spending next year. Regional giant China has said it is determined to prevent an escalation of the violence but warned against military acts near its coast as U.S. and South Korean forces prepare for exercises in the Yellow Sea. A North Korean website (http://www.uriminzokkiri) operated by the government propaganda agency said the war drills were "another unforgivable military provocation." "(The North) will make the stronghold of the enemy a sheet of flames if they violate its territory even by 0.01 mm." The U.S. military said the exercises, planned long before Tuesday's attack, were designed to deter North Korea and were not aimed at China. "We've routinely operated in waters off the Korean peninsula for years," said Captain Darryn James, a Pentagon spokesman. "These latest provocations have been by the North and they need to take ownership of those, not us." U.S. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said North Korea's nuclear ambitions and leader Kim Jong-il's unpredictability increased the threat of regional instability. (Additional reporting by Yoo Choonsik in Seoul and Phil Stewart in WASHINGTON) (Writing by Nick Macfie; Editing by Andrew Marshall)
What the hell is going on? The South Korean Marine commander vowing revenge? "All Marines, including Marines on service and reserve Marines, will avenge the two at any cost, keeping today's anger and hostility in mind,"? "We will put our feelings of rage and animosity in our bones and take our revenge on North Korea."?
I hope this is just standard bravado and due diligence - and not an actual intent on waging a war.
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North-Korea has apologized for the Civilian casualties. "But the enemy should be held responsible for the incident as it took such inhuman action as creating 'a human shield' by deploying civilians around artillery positions and inside military facilities."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AQ0O720101127
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North Korea doesn't want to bite the dust like the USSR did without a fight and they seek war. The best way for the west is to ignore their provocations.
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News from Twitter:
Yonhap quoting "informed (#ROK ) gov't source saying #DPRK 8th naval squadron increasing activity, keeping coastal artillery in firing mode.
this because of the naval drill by US / SK.
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On November 27 2010 14:23 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 14:02 XRaDiiX wrote:On November 27 2010 13:20 Elegy wrote:On November 27 2010 13:11 XRaDiiX wrote:On November 27 2010 12:46 Odyssey.561 wrote: redesch you couldn't be more wrong if you tryed. China isn't going to back NK or Russia either. If U.S. goes to war with NK it will be from them attacking our troops. Also China owns half of our economy almost there not going to go to war with us over NK. If a war happens US will bomb NK for a couple days if NK uses nukes the rest of the world will join in on the beat down. The only thing NK has going is US wants to minimize collateral damage in SK. Either way all i'm saying is china wont back NK garunteed and Russia could care less either way. Russia will join with who they think will win if WW3 ever happened. Much like the French in every war. The NK leaders need to be removed though there phycotic. Sorry but read head article on CNN tonight . http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/koreas.crisis/index.html?hpt=T1China pissed off about Us - South Korean Exersize Near North Korea. World war 3 China, North Korea, Iran, Lebananon, Pakistan etc. Vs US and allies (Russia will side with US we are now their allies trust me Russia is in bed with the US now) Not even close, man. This sort of post is simply completely misinformed. Lebanon? Are you serious? Pakistan? Not even to mention the China + NK + Iran leap you make here... I suggest you do some research and maybe talk to a few people who are slightly more aware of international issues and alliances before making such claims again. Pakistan is not allied with The US u have serious issues India is now with the US didn't they just have that big trip to their with all the economic leaders corporations etc. BTW India pakistanis hate eachother. China hate Indians too. They have disputes about the border lines all the time BTW don't come to criticize someone so harshly when you yourself have no clue to international alliances. North Korea is very interested in other countries that are enemies of the US because they need other countries to share tech/trade agreements with not just China. Obviously i'm being a little sarcastic about the middles eastern countries all allied with China but Its more likely for some of the ones i mentioned to ally with China because they are direct enemies of the US. Russia is leaning more toward being on the US side recently look it up Bud You are the misinformed one sorry but. Don't make substantial claims when you don't know yourself You do realise how angry China is at the US for the new arms Deal with Taiwan ( Territory China claims is theirs) Recently. omg lol hes actually serious Yeah really X-/. Pakistan helped us in Afghanistan and since then we've sent billions of dollars to Pakistan because they're having trouble with our common enemy, the Taliban. Pakistan may not be our strongest ally in the world, but they still tend to align with us. Hell, there's a good chance if Pakistan did align against us militarily we would drop support and the Taliban would overrun them. It's such a stupid idea to think Pakistan would ever attack us.
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