EPTNorth Korea Fires Artillery Rounds at South Korean Island…
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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DisBabylonSystem
56 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Seriously.....I don't know what to make of this. While I have half a mind telling me that American intervention is the primary reason why the North is so aggressive, I don't know why the North is purposely tempting the International Community to deal punishment. | ||
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oRacLeGosu
Norway151 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On November 27 2010 04:23 oRacLeGosu wrote: They are doing it to get the US to resume the six party talks, that revolves around NKR getting resources. NKR also sais that the only way they will let SKR have families reunited, is if they give them 500.000 tons of rice. The north is controlled by psychos..you can't really look at it as a country, because that suggests at least some reasonable thinking. The six party talks was about disassembling the North's nuclear program. We've discovered that North Korea has a secret nuclear enrichment program in Yongbyon. Why would they want to restart a talk to cancel their secret nuclear enrichment projects? The North's aggression doesn't seem to bear a hint at trying to bring about some peaceful resolution. Indiscriminately firing on civilians, if anything, should hint that the North isn't thinking about a resolution. But at the same time, I think that it's unfair to say that the North is controlled by a bunch of psychos. People like Kim Jong Il want to hold onto their power for as long as physically possible, and will therefore use any means of retaining that power. I don't see why he would risk his country's stability during a point of power transfer for his son. I'd argue that the North's aggression was mainly because of American involvement (joint military exercises) as well as power/military struggles that are brewing instability and happy trigger fingers. I don't think that the North really has any other goal with these attacks. >.> If they did, I don't know what they'd accomplish with it. | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
On November 27 2010 03:40 DisBabylonSystem wrote: A question for the people living in s.korea... How are you guys feeling right now, scared, angry..etc. ? just curious I'm feeling angry. I can't drink alcohol. It's only my AIR FORCE BASE. Every other air force/Army/Navy/Marine installation can drink alcohol, but not Osan... We've been unable to drink since Wednesday. I mean I understand that we need to be sober if things actually heat up with North Korea, but how come it's only 1 base out of the numerous military installations on the Korean peninsula that can't drink O.o? All the bars/clubs downtown in Osan are empty on a Friday night... On November 26 2010 22:06 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I am freaking the fuck out about this guys. I don't want to leave Korea but you better fucking believe that if shit hits the fan I'm up out. Least you're honest. I'll be here till I'm either dead or North Korea stops this shit. | ||
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Grettin
42384 Posts
On November 27 2010 04:38 Silentness wrote: I'm feeling angry. I can't drink alcohol. It's only my AIR FORCE BASE. Every other air force/Army/Navy/Marine installation can drink alcohol, but not Osan... We've been unable to drink since Wednesday. I mean I understand that we need to be sober if things actually heat up with North Korea, but how come it's only 1 base out of the numerous military installations on the Korean peninsula that can't drink O.o? All the bars/clubs downtown in Osan are empty on a Friday night... You can think it this way: Every other base/station can drink because they are worthless and it doesn't matter are they sober or not. So basically your base is the only one who can actually get shit done. Thats why you've been sober for days! | ||
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oRacLeGosu
Norway151 Posts
On November 27 2010 04:27 Zergneedsfood wrote: The six party talks was about disassembling the North's nuclear program. We've discovered that North Korea has a secret nuclear enrichment program in Yongbyon. Why would they want to restart a talk to cancel their secret nuclear enrichment projects? The North's aggression doesn't seem to bear a hint at trying to bring about some peaceful resolution. Indiscriminately firing on civilians, if anything, should hint that the North isn't thinking about a resolution. You have to understand that they can postpone alot by forcing US, and UN to initiate the talks, and there-by also saving face, which is very asian style to care about. NKR will never ask for something. They will always try to turn it around, and make it seem that they have others begging. This is the only way they know how to communicate. And the six-party talks is not really just about the nuclear program. These are "talks", and that means a deal. The US/UN will do anything else in the world before war, and NKR is using that fact in desperate times. Also..they US is scared shitless of China, and rightfully so. China is not of whom to fuck. This is a very delicate situation, and NATO has to have alot of good-will, and NKR uses this fact. This is at least the Scandinavian experts views, largly. But at the same time, NKR is really unpredictable, and the US being there could have helped sparking something, definatly...BUT..a Korean a expert in China sais NKR would have never dared to do this if the US soldiers was in place at the time of attack. I think it it a psychotic way of trying to gain resources with not losing face. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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dinki0825
United States238 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On November 27 2010 04:57 oRacLeGosu wrote: You have to understand that they can postpone alot by forcing US, and UN to initiate the talks, and there-by also saving face, which is very asian style to care about. NKR will never ask for something. They will always try to turn it around, and make it seem that they have others begging. This is the only way they know how to communicate. And the six-party talks is not really just about the nuclear program. These are "talks", and that means a deal. The US/UN will do anything else in the world before war, and NKR is using that fact in desperate times. Also..they US is scared shitless of China, and rightfully so. China is not of whom to fuck. This is a very delicate situation, and NATO has to have alot of good-will, and NKR uses this fact. This is at least the Scandinavian experts views, largly. But at the same time, NKR is really unpredictable, and the US being there could have helped sparking something, definatly...BUT..a Korean a expert in China sais NKR would have never dared to do this if the US soldiers was in place at the time of attack. I think it it a psychotic way of trying to gain resources with not losing face. US and UN prioritize the dismantling of North Korea's nuclear program above most of their other foreign policy agendas. On top of that, China and Russia have also been a little more wary of accepting NK's aggressive tendencies. The United States doesn't need to be scared shitless of China in this particular case. China's risks international reputation as well as condemnation if it doesn't condemn North Korea's actions itself. But I agree with you that US presence was a huge contributing factor to the North's provocation. Still.......to say that they won't back down. Either they're incredibly smart......or incredibly stupid. I vote for the latter. >.> | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
During the Cheonan investigation, number "1" was hand-written on the parts recovered from the torpedo. North Korea said they do not use hand written numbers on their parts. Shells recovered in the island after the attack contained the number "1", the same way the torpedo had. So NK clearly lied or SK planted it. NK lied about it, making it more clear that it was them who attacked Cheonan. It was because of China UN couldn't do anything to NK regarding Cheonan. With evidence building up marking NK as the aggressor, it really depends on how China reacts to this situation. They can say, "fck with reputation" and continue to back NK or be truly "neutral" and condemn NK for their actions. China once again is complaining about the navy drill on the Yellow Sea. Last time, they moved it to the Sea of Japan (East Sea). I wonder if US/Korea will relocate again, sources say China cannot do much this time because this has clear evidence, unlike Cheonan. source: MBN News | ||
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Lowkin
Canada232 Posts
On November 27 2010 07:11 jinorazi wrote: In case it hasn't been posted, new news: During the Cheonan investigation, number "1" was hand-written on the parts recovered from the torpedo. North Korea said they do not use hand written numbers on their parts. Shells recovered in the island after the attack contained the number "1", the same way the torpedo had. So NK clearly lied or SK planted it. NK lied about it, making it more clear that it was them who attacked Cheonan. It was because of China UN couldn't do anything to NK regarding Cheonan. With evidence building up marking NK as the aggressor, it really depends on how China reacts to this situation. They can say, "fck with reputation" and continue to back NK or be truly "neutral" and condemn NK for their actions. China once again is complaining about the navy drill on the Yellow Sea. Last time, they moved it to the Sea of Japan (East Sea). I wonder if US/Korea will relocate again, sources say China cannot do much this time because this has clear evidence, unlike Cheonan. source: MBN News Interesting I thought someone before said all investigations pointed to the fact that the ship was not hit by any type of torpedo and sunk do to an internal malfunction/explosion. So you are saying they did find parts of a torpedo in the wreckage. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On November 27 2010 07:22 Lowkin wrote: Interesting I thought someone before said all investigations pointed to the fact that the ship was not hit by any type of torpedo and sunk do to an internal malfunction/explosion. So you are saying they did find parts of a torpedo in the wreckage. Not sure where that info came from but the joint investigation concluded that it was sunk by an external explosion, although Russia couldn't say it came from NK and China pushed the UN to remove blame in the final statement. It wasn't hit by a torpedo directly though. (See spoiler) + Show Spoiler + The cause of this explosion was not immediately determined, although experts said that an external explosion was likely as the structure of the ship was bent upwards, rather than evenly splitting as would have happened if metal fatigue had been the cause, and that an internal explosion was unlikely, as explosives on board the ship were undamaged. On 13 September 2010, the final report was issued by JIG which concluded that, "[t]he Cheonan was split and sunk due to a shockwave and bubble effect generated by the underwater explosion of a torpedo. The detonation location was three meters to port from the center of the gas turbine room and at a depth of 6-9 meters..." Their conclusion was that the torpedo did not physically hit the ship, but the explosion was close enough and destructive enough to sink it. I'm interested in seeing some news or pictures on the shells having the number though. I can't exactly speak/read Korean and it's still kind of early there so I guess more will be said by the foreign reporters in Korea later today. I am glad that the island has already been evacuated in preparation for the drills. It's best not to risk more civilian lives when tensions could rise again, although attacking a US carrier is pretty suicidal. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On November 27 2010 07:22 Lowkin wrote: Interesting I thought someone before said all investigations pointed to the fact that the ship was not hit by any type of torpedo and sunk do to an internal malfunction/explosion. So you are saying they did find parts of a torpedo in the wreckage. That's the line they initially gave. It was definitively a torpedo of the same type that NK uses. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img.seoul.co.kr/img/upload/2010/11/27/SSI_20101127003813_V.jpg) ]top artillery bot torpedo i dont think its the issue with the similarity of the numbers but NK's claim that they do not use hand written numbers. | ||
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Grettin
42384 Posts
On November 27 2010 07:53 Craton wrote: That's the line they initially gave. It was definitively a torpedo of the same type that NK uses. Actually i would like to see some kind of source of that where it is actually proven so. Haven't seen one. (And yes, i saw the MBC news one, but it really can't prove anything at this point) Last time it was pretty "clear" that it exploded wrongly if it would have been a torpedo. And like a pages back someone posted, there was a Russian scientist who found leads that it wasn't a torpedo attack. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On November 27 2010 08:54 Grettin wrote: Actually i would like to see some kind of source of that where it is actually proven so. Haven't seen one. (And yes, i saw the MBC news one, but it really can't prove anything at this point) Last time it was pretty "clear" that it exploded wrongly if it would have been a torpedo. And like a pages back someone posted, there was a Russian scientist who found leads that it wasn't a torpedo attack. I'd like to see the source for that, because the final Russian report acknowledged it was an external explosion, but further information remains "classified." "They said the only thing that is certain is that an external shock sank the ship in March, killing 46 sailors." Source Edit: The source provided a few pages back was dated months before this source and only really states Russia found no proof it was NK. Don't mean to derail the thread too much, just watching for news about the issue. | ||
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Grettin
42384 Posts
On November 27 2010 09:12 xBillehx wrote: I'd like to see the source for that, because the final Russian report acknowledged it was an external explosion, but further information remains "classified." "They said the only thing that is certain is that an external shock sank the ship in March, killing 46 sailors." Source Edit: The source provided a few pages back was dated months before this source and only really states Russia found no proof it was NK. Don't mean to derail the thread too much, just watching for news about the issue. You might be right. somehow i have a image of seeing news about something else (reef crash or that russian investigation about inside explosion etc) than torpedo attack. Might be the news here where i live (they are absolutely horrible sometimes..) Oh btw, Didn't want to be rude, just really curious about this situation. :-) | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
(It's cool I hope I didn't come off as rude either. xD) Possible update: I don't know the validity of this so take it with a grain of salt but heres an article written an hour ago saying China may be stepping in: "In what could be a crucial development, state-owned newspapers in China have blamed North Korea for this week's attack; one even editorialised that North Korea could be a country without a future." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/27/3078142.htm?section=justin | ||
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