That's why they can't use logical arguments by the way - Conservatism can't win with factual points... Much rather they try to create fear so they look for conservative values as a defense mechanism.
China will own the U.S by 2030 - Page 12
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
That's why they can't use logical arguments by the way - Conservatism can't win with factual points... Much rather they try to create fear so they look for conservative values as a defense mechanism. | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 01 2010 07:39 Archduke wrote: Didn't even watch. The thread title is retarded in so many ways. By China "owning" the US, I assume you mean the large amount of US government securities that the Chinese are buying. A bond is not the same thing as a stock. A stock is a share in the ownership of a company. A bond is a loan. Basically, all the Chinese are doing is lending money to the US. In no way does our debt to the Chinese allow them to exert control over our government. In macroeconomic terms, they are the savers and we are the spenders. In an economy, in this case the world economy, money ALWAYS flows from savers to spenders and there is nothing wrong with the US government borrowing money. That being said, the US does need to keep its government debt in check. Excessive debt has been the downfall of many world powers and the US will be no different. As government debt grows, more money will have to be borrowed to pay off the interest on previous debt. That borrowing incurs more interest, for which yet more money must be borrowed. It becomes an inescapable downward spiral that will, if left unchecked, cause the financial collapse of the government. tl;dr From a macroeconomic standpoint, the thread title is completely wrong. The US government does need to reduce its debt, though. watch the video and read the thread. otherwise dont comment we're primarily discussing the stupidity of the commercial and its lack of credibility. the thread title was mocking the commercial no body actually thinks we will be slaves to the chinese | ||
Informat
Canada45 Posts
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:39 billyX333 wrote: watch the video and read the thread. otherwise dont comment we're primarily discussing the stupidity of the commercial and its lack of credibility. the thread title was mocking the commercial Actually - as I posted above - I start to think that this ad is not as dumb as it seems. So, ok, the content and factual points are stupid, the attempt of opinion to be created is obvious. But: 1. There will still be a huge number of blockheads falling for it. 2. It induces the fear of economic descent as everyone knows that the US is struggling hard and China a rising super power. Even if the shown scenario is unrealistic - such kind of fear always makes people search for known routines and values, so they rather vote conservative. As this is practically industrial lobbyism, they'll support the Republicans with this. It's not about logics but emotion. | ||
Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
EDIT: Americans already work for China, so I don't see the difference. | ||
Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:40 Informat wrote: Well i'm Chinese and i'm pretty fine with this as long as it's a joke, i even had a laugh. However, if it's for politics and trying to make the Chinese look evil, it's quite shocking that they would go soo low. In fact, if China were planning to take over the world, this republican party will definitely make things much easier and faster. It's not a joke. It's difficult to get people excited about your logical argument against Obama's economic plan supported with facts and figures. However, people do get excited when they think they are under attack by a group of evil people who look different than them and have a different culture. | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:43 teekesselchen wrote: Actually - as I posted above - I start to think that this ad is not as dumb as it seems. So, ok, the content and factual points are stupid, the attempt of opinion to be created is obvious. But: 1. There will still be a huge number of blockheads falling for it. 2. It induces the fear of economic descent as everyone knows that the US is struggling hard and China a rising super power. Even if the shown scenario is unrealistic - such kind of fear always makes people search for known routines and values, so they rather vote conservative. As this is practically industrial lobbyism, they'll support the Republicans with this. i was just telling the person i quoted to read the op/watch the video or don't comment. "yo OP, i didn't read the thread but you are a retard" but i agree. the director is a professional and clearly knows how to strike fear in the uneducated viewer. but to everyone else, we already know we are in a trade deficit and continue to borrow from the chinese. but no body is running around like chicken little screaming "the sky is falling" like the tea baggers | ||
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
china owns the most of the debt the US has. and this debt you have to pay every year, and it comes from your tax money every year so basically a considerable time of the year you work to pay the chinese .. dont see were this video is wrong?! i dont know what information you get over your news networks but america is pretty damn near an economic downfall and thoughts like "we should get our debt under controll and all will be nice from there on" is pretty funny, cause america cant even pay the interest from that debt .. you all vote now for the republicans and they will tax the shit out of you haha :D | ||
evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
do work for China in the future! :D | ||
Rasva_Pallo
Finland126 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:34 billyX333 wrote: no that isnt what he was merely saying. look at his examples. they make no sense and he clearly has the two terms confused. nationalism vs racism is a different debate, but you can't deny there is an ominous undertone (whether you think its for a fear of chinese people, the nation, or a combination of both, is up for interpretation). if you missed it, you were trying to miss it as that was clearly the director's intention. these arent government officials in the commercial, this involves a professor and the students (the civilians) Although I SERIOUSLY doubt the creator of this video truly meant for it to be as intellectual as we are making it, I think there can be a logical interpretation. I am willing to admit that the creators were probably scared and possibly racist -- but that is a one dimensional topic and not interesting. What are far more interesting questions are to ask what a Chinese run world would be like, if America should fear that, and if fearing that is racist or not. I just came back from a year teaching high school and college students in Hangzhou, China. I find the setting of a Chinese classroom VERY relevant. The amount of propaganda that permeates the average Chinese high school/college is startling. (Note: I also find the amount of American propaganda in American schools almost as startling.) I have talked with hundreds of young Chinese intellectuals and many of them are willing to admit many faults of their country, civil rights, and government. But, the general concensus is to NOT care if you have no human rights if that makes China more powerful. Right now, the average Chinese person is so nationalistic that it is blinding their individualism and their sense of right and wrong. They still DO have a very developed sense of right and wrong, but it is eclipsed by this rising pride in the accomplishments of modern China (kind of like pre-world war two Japan). These are GOOD people. They would like all the rights and freedoms that we enjoy. But where as I would die fighting my own country if they tried to take away those rights, they are willing to wait many years until their government grants them those rights if that means that their government and country will remain the strongest in the world. This is a mindset that I personally and many Americans find very scary (even though it is very similar to American philosophy). It is clearly in America's best interest to remain #1. Why is it "racist" to spread a commercial trying to rally support against another country (although this stupid commercial was less about trying to keep up with China and more about blaming the Democrats [lol]). That is just my own personal experience talking with my students, but I don't see why Americans should try to rally support for American (and against China) so that we do not fall to #2. I personally would immediately join a movement to boycott Chinese goods (even though it is almost surely too little too late). I've seen similar anti-American movements/advertisements in China. It's nationalism baby! -- I just can't believe nationalism is still considered a good thing (even though I'm a pretty nationalistic American... yes I know its hypocritical...) | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:49 phil.ipp wrote: i think its actually true china owns the most of the debt the US has. and this debt you have to pay every year, and it comes from your tax money every year so basically a considerable time of the year you work to pay the chinese .. dont see were this video is wrong?! i dont know what information you get over your news networks but america is pretty damn near an economic downfall and thoughts like "we should get our debt under controll and all will be nice from there on" is pretty funny, cause america cant even pay the interest from that debt .. you all vote now for the republicans and they will tax the shit out of you haha :D then, by this logic, we already are working for the chinese. what is going to change by 2030? we know already. we are in a nearly insurmountable debt which china owns. i guess you could say USA is the poorest nation in the world because we have the largest debt, but we arent going to suddenly collapse, lose our sovereignty, then be whipped and shackled by some chinese slave masters. | ||
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:08 Beef Noodles wrote: That is just my own personal experience talking with my students, but I don't see why Americans should try to rally support for American (and against China) so that we do not fall to #2. I personally would immediately join a movement to boycott Chinese goods (even though it is almost surely too little too late). I've seen similar anti-American movements/advertisements in China. It's nationalism baby! -- I just can't believe nationalism is still considered a good thing (even though I'm a pretty nationalistic American... yes I know its hypocritical...) haha, thats soooo sweet, its just sad that so many people dont get the economical situation amercia has driven themself into if you would boycott Chinese goods, the dollar would be worthless within months. | ||
thesighter
United States347 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:08 Beef Noodles wrote: Although I SERIOUSLY doubt the creator of this video truly meant for it to be as intellectual as we are making it, I think there can be a logical interpretation. I am willing to admit that the creators were probably scared and possibly racist -- but that is a one dimensional topic and not interesting. What are far more interesting questions are to ask what a Chinese run world would be like, if America should fear that, and if fearing that is racist or not. I just came back from a year teaching high school and college students in Hangzhou, China. I find the setting of a Chinese classroom VERY relevant. The amount of propaganda that permeates the average Chinese high school/college is startling. (Note: I also find the amount of American propaganda in American schools almost as startling.) I have talked with hundreds of young Chinese intellectuals and many of them are willing to admit many faults of their country, civil rights, and government. But, the general concensus is to NOT care if you have no human rights if that makes China more powerful. Right now, the average Chinese person is so nationalistic that it is blinding their individualism and their sense of right and wrong. They still DO have a very developed sense of right and wrong, but it is eclipsed by this rising pride in the accomplishments of modern China (kind of like pre-world war two Japan). These are GOOD people. They would like all the rights and freedoms that we enjoy. But where as I would die fighting my own country if they tried to take away those rights, they are willing to wait many years until their government grants them those rights if that means that their government and country will remain the strongest in the world. This is a mindset that I personally and many Americans find very scary (even though it is very similar to American philosophy). It is clearly in America's best interest to remain #1. Why is it "racist" to spread a commercial trying to rally support against another country (although this stupid commercial was less about trying to keep up with China and more about blaming the Democrats [lol]). That is just my own personal experience talking with my students, but I don't see why Americans should try to rally support for American (and against China) so that we do not fall to #2. I personally would immediately join a movement to boycott Chinese goods (even though it is almost surely too little too late). I've seen similar anti-American movements/advertisements in China. It's nationalism baby! -- I just can't believe nationalism is still considered a good thing (even though I'm a pretty nationalistic American... yes I know its hypocritical...) China has never had "human rights" in it history. In fact, most 3rd world nations haven't had some marginal form of human rights until the 20th century. That may explain the opinion of your students, they don't know any better. | ||
Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I feel uncomfortable walking passed a man on the street at night and he is carrying a big axe. He is legally entitled to do that, and I am unfairly jumping to the conclusion that he is an axe murderer, but that's not racist... Now replace the street with a plane and the axe with a turban. Still an unfair jump to a conclusion, but still not an example of racism errr. -man with axe: axe is a demonstrable threat regardless of who is holding it. Thought process is man-axe-axe is threat- fear - guy with turban on plane: is not a demonstrable threat unless you are making racist or at least somewhat prejudiced assumptions. Thought process is man- man with turban- arab/muslim- potential suicide bomber- suicide bomber is threat- fear. The important bit is that extra bit of logic you go through to assume that if a guy has a turban, he is more likely than a guy without a turban to be carrying a bomb- which is frankly ridiculous. The same applies for the assumption based on arabic looks. Whether this ad is racist or not is tricky to place formally, but the fact remains it shows china in a super negative light- the professor preaching like a priest to followers, smirking a little at the thought of owning other nations- and the sycophantic laughter that follows. It's pretty classic yellow-peril marketing, portraying the chinese as schemers out to control good, honest, hard working folks- they've even updated the old trappings of decadence from silks and vases to plasma screens and clean-cut american upper class clothing. It's actually somewhat impressive that they managed to *make* that ad, unless they deceived the people taking part in it. I can't see many chinese being happy to take part in such a blatant piece of malicious work. | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:18 phil.ipp wrote: haha, thats soooo sweet, its just sad that so many people dont get the economical situation amercia has driven themself into if you would boycott Chinese goods, the dollar would be worthless within months. quoted for irony | ||
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
we all are working everyday to pay the debt of our countrys if there were no debt, we would work one day in a week or less and no you will not suddenly collapse but the dollar will experience a serious downgrade, your savings will be worthless and there will be a great depression america will be the first, other countrys will follow | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:23 phil.ipp wrote: we are all slaves of the money we all are working everyday to pay the debt of our countrys if there were no debt, we would work one day in a week or less and no you will not suddenly collapse but the dollar will experience a serious downgrade, your savings will be worthless and there will be a great depression america will be the first, other countrys will follow why? what are we actively doing right now that is going to cause more inflation to a level where "all my savings will become worthless" ??? sound the alarms. we are all going to die | ||
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
its just a process to restore the value of a currency is there an economics thread? seriously what are they telling you over there, that you have overcome the crisis and now looking into a bright future or what :D here in europe we hear every week that the big crisis is not over but it will happen in 3-5 years from now. | ||
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