Firefighters let house burn due no fee payment - Page 37

No_Roo

United States905 Posts

October 07 2010 06:56 GMT

#721

Here in California we spend like 100 million taxpayer dollars every summer saving the homes of various wild animals who don't pay any taxes OR fees and aren't even legal citizens!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2007_California_wildfires

Tennessee won't save a home of a human being who offers to pay them to do so. So dirty.

Damn you know your fire is legit when NASA has to send you photos of it

Maybe we have to send some of our guys down to obion county and show them how it's supposed to work. We'll only charge them $75.

news

892 Posts

October 07 2010 06:57 GMT

#722

On October 07 2010 05:51 Judicator wrote:
It's a political move by the IAFF, pretty kneejerk, but that's what you get in today's world of mass media.

Yeah, you'd be the kind of person to condemn a doc for treating some uninsured patient (that had to wait for hours) first in order to better help him. "It's a political move", what a great statement, you must have studied their political agenda and long-time goals.

On October 07 2010 05:58 No_Roo wrote:

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Mass media? It's a .PDF on a website that no one has ever heard of.

As for political move, I suppose you could say that. They probably only want to associate their institution with the kind of fire fighters that put fires out.

Hahaha well said, it's a shame when someone argues for hours only to see his point shattered.

On October 06 2010 04:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The system in place with firefighting running on fees is downright insane. It's very fucked up to want a society where houses are burned down with firefighters watching it happen. But once you have that nutso system in place what else can you do but adhere to it? The only thing worse than having firefighting running on fees is having it not run at all something which will happen if fees are not paid. It's gross but the only solution to me is to change the system and not this individual happening.

Spot on. It's useless to argue whether those firefighters were at fault, they had very little choice. The system itself is completely idiotic. People will always need someone to wipe the drool off their faces, things like fire protection should stay untouchable. Arguments along the lines of "well wouldn't you want to buy your car insurance only after you crashed your car" are absurd too, as far as I know in most states it is illegal to operate an uninsured vehicle and that's the way it should be. Things like health care, education and fire protection for everyone should be top priority for any civilized society.

I'm not even getting into an ethical aspect of this, a firefighter should never be told to watch the house burn down. This is just insane and I feel sorry for anyone who thinks otherwise.

Myles

United States5162 Posts

October 07 2010 07:00 GMT

#723

On October 07 2010 15:47 jon arbuckle wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 07 2010 15:26 Myles wrote:

On October 07 2010 15:09 jon arbuckle wrote:

On October 07 2010 13:39 Myles wrote:

On October 07 2010 13:29 jon arbuckle wrote:

On October 07 2010 12:27 Myles wrote:

On October 07 2010 12:24 jon arbuckle wrote:
I kinda feel like the United States and even the world would be a better place if people read what other people have said on a particular issue before voicing their opinion on that issue.

I also kinda feel like the United States would be a better place if people were happy and comfortable with the knowledge that some of their taxes would be going towards helping those poorer than them because tacitly that means those with greater income will be helping them, the people who are happy and comfortable, everyone.

That said, the fire department is morally questionable but ethically justified.

I'd like to feel that way, but how I generally feel is that I'm just being leeched off of. Way too may people take advantage of the system.

How are people taking advantage of the system?

How do you feel that people are leeching off of you?

I mean, a real, profitable discussion of these issues would necessitate that you share private details like geographic location, income, etc., which you definitely don't have to do, but if there are people so destitute as to take advantage of a given system, the problem lies with the system, not with the people the system produces.

People take advantage of the system by claiming unemployment and never look for a job until it runs out, or living off welfare your whole life and hardly making an attempt to get off it. The problem is that there are so many people that it's very hard to make sure everyone who is getting welfare is doing their best to get off it. Unemployment offices don't even ask for job search records because it would take so much time to verify.

I think people bring that up more often than is really case. If anyone has statistics on the subject, I'd certainly like to see them. I also doubt this is something that poses an immediate threat to you when the amount of money put into social welfare programs versus defense over the past decade are so disproportionate as to outright topple you.

But you're essentially proposing that people with no transferable skills or chance at education should be made to have even less than they already do - to starve or become homeless. Or, otherwise, to work dead-end jobs that don't provide transferable skills in order to make ends meet. It's not attractive to anyone.

It would be disingenuous to say that this is the result of the people as much as it's a part of the communities and the system that produces them (which is another thing: at the absolute low of abject poverty, the system works against you). Even something as simple as providing programs whereby degrees obtained overseas by immigrants would become viable and standing in the domestic markets would change the landscape considerably.

In other words, I don't deny that you feel like you're being leeched from, but I don't believe that you are actually being leeched from, and I don't believe you know exactly what forms social welfare can take. I think it's that generalization and bad attitude to which I as previously stated shrug and frown quietly about. Maybe I'm just Cindy Lou Who.

Everyone has a chance at education. Public schools aren't great, but if you work hard and get good grades you can get scholarships and/or grants. And somebody has to work those dead-end jobs. We can't support a nation where everyone works 9-5 and has a great white collar job. People have to work as janitors, bus drivers, waiters, farm workers, ect.

The problem is, and going to a poor school I was witness to it, kids don't fucking try. I'm no genius but I slept through high school and got a 3.5. I was literally asleep 90% of the time I wasn't in a gym class. And you know what, most of the teachers appreciated it because I didn't cause problems. You're telling me that I can sleep through school and get a better gpa than 80% of my class and that's somehow not the kids fault?

I'm Canadian, so perhaps things are different, but being a bus driver requires certain qualifications for skill in driving the vehicle - certification, basically. Farming require agricultural knowledge, location, and capital (lots of capital; I don't know what you mean by "farm workers"). And being a waiter/waitress requires a certain quality of dress and attitude that probably isn't readily available to someone who needs that cheque to feed their kids for the week. I'm also unsure of whether or not janitorial jobs require a background check; if so, that too. Nothing's as easy as it looks, and some people require the perspective and assistance to get them to see a way out of their mess.

And not everyone reaches their intellectual and emotional apogee in high school or even college, and no one should be condemned to a life of wrapping Big Macs because they thought chemistry was boring when they were 16. People should have a right to second, third, etc. chances in life; again, it's about the shape those chances take and how the assistance comes to them.

By farm worker I meant someone who works in the fields picking crops. One of the most unskilled labors around that comprises 95% of its workforce from spanish immigrants. I know it's not always as easy as to just go get a job, but there have been millions of people who pulled themselves out of poverty by doing exactly that. They got a crappy job and worked up from there.

And I can appreciate second chances, I know I've had a few, but what about accountability? It's not the kids fault that he didn't see the value of an education or listen to people who told them about it? When someone makes a bad decision do they not deserve to reap the consequences? I didn't like chemistry or math or school at all for that matter, but I knew if I didn't get decent grades then it would only make my life more difficult. And plus, that burger flipper can work hard and maybe get a supervisor position. Hell, a McDonalds vice president(or something like that) started as a line cook.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

October 07 2010 12:54 GMT

#724

On October 07 2010 15:57 News wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hahaha well said, it's a shame when someone argues for hours only to see his point shattered.

Show nested quote +

Yeah, you'd must be the only person that doesn't read the article before commenting...yeah...oh wait...must be nice to realize that one's argument is "shattered" because one can't read.

Clearly you don't understand social pressures and think that everyone works on some kind of naive pure basis. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that, especially with pundits/blogs/internet around.

Also clearly you don't seem to understand the mindset of people around here or my original points, because you along with everyone else clearly seems to think that rural regions around here like being "governed" and that you can just enact rules that you deem to be crucial (whether it actually is crucial is not relevant, the very notion of it pisses people off around here).

muse5187

1125 Posts

October 07 2010 13:06 GMT

#725

I never would have thought tl was so chock full of ruthless and ignorant children who are so sheltered from the real world they think someone deserves to lose their home over $75, like it is no big deal at all. I don't give a shit if I would have lost my job I would NEVER stand there and let this man lose his home. This mindset is not very "american" in any way shape or form. I fear for the future generation.

T3tra

United States406 Posts

October 07 2010 13:17 GMT

#726

"A heated issue in Obion county ... "

really?

Impervious

Canada4222 Posts

October 07 2010 14:46 GMT

#727

On October 07 2010 22:06 muse5187 wrote:
I never would have thought tl was so chock full of ruthless and ignorant children who are so sheltered from the real world they think someone deserves to lose their home over $75, like it is no big deal at all. I don't give a shit if I would have lost my job I would NEVER stand there and let this man lose his home. This mindset is not very "american" in any way shape or form. I fear for the future generation.

Its not just 75 bucks from one person. It is 75 bucks from potentially thousands of households, every year, that should be going to the fire department but isn't because they are not paying it. Its a giant gamble, and eventually someone is going to get burned.

The system is fucking disgusting. Not the actions of the firefighters.

reg

United States134 Posts

October 07 2010 20:12 GMT

#728

Here in California we...

Ah, the first failed state. Good luck down there... Oh and your argument is fallacious btw. Thought you should know.

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