On August 26 2010 12:39 Disregard wrote: Bloomberg's gonna use him for some PR tomorrow, going to City Hall to have a meeting. The attacker is a college student that just came back from Afghanistan where he was a correspondent embedded with the Marines, all for a senior project... irrc at School of Visual Arts.
Guess those times there really created some type of psychological problem for him, or maybe he was just drunk. Thats what I heard at least.
Interesting, so it's a Muslim on Muslim crime? Maybe the Afghan student was against Park51.
It was an American student who was in Afghanistan with the marines for a senior project. Just like it says in the post you quoted. Some of you people should employ others to do your thinking for you, clearly the challenge of reading is too great.
On August 26 2010 12:39 Disregard wrote: Bloomberg's gonna use him for some PR tomorrow, going to City Hall to have a meeting. The attacker is a college student that just came back from Afghanistan where he was a correspondent embedded with the Marines, all for a senior project... irrc at School of Visual Arts.
Guess those times there really created some type of psychological problem for him, or maybe he was just drunk. Thats what I heard at least.
Interesting, so it's a Muslim on Muslim crime? Maybe the Afghan student was against Park51.
It was an American student who was in Afghanistan with the marines for a senior project. Just like it says in the post you quoted. Some of you people should employ others to do your thinking for you, clearly the challenge of reading is too great.
I just looked this up. The attacker in the taxi was an American student who works for a liberal organization that supports the mosque.
This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51.
a) not a mosque
b) do you honestly believe this guy is going to slit someone's throat and serve max 25 years in federal prison just to generate sympathy for a fucking ymca? or are you just trolling
On August 26 2010 13:04 thesighter wrote: Islam, the religion of peace. 15,911 terror attacks since 9/11
thereligionofpeace.com
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.
You could use the fact that they were all Muslims to paint a billion people with the same brush. But to be honest I think you're still thinking too small, sure stereotyping a billion people is good but have you considered that they were all living humans? That can up us to almost seven billion. All human? Now every person who has ever lived is a terrorist. If you're going to use these fallacies, think big. I for one think all carbon based lifeforms in all wheres and whens of the universe are terrorists.
Not painting all with the same brush. Islamic teachings are dangerous and easily misinterpreted by extremists. There is something fundamentally wrong with the teachings of the Quran.
There is no shortage of violent teachings in the Bible either. The difference is the west has advanced sufficiently as a society to ignore them (most of the time). The problem isn't the religious teachings, it's that the society is still backwards enough to think it acceptable to follow them.
On August 26 2010 02:52 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: I find it ludicrous that these Christians (local and abroad) who mutilate Muslims in the name of their God are allowed places of worship in Islamic countries. Tear down all their churches I say.
And doing that is supposed to help christian-muslim relations? The few "christians" who do this type of thing are as rare as the muslims who fly planes into buildings
On August 26 2010 12:39 Disregard wrote: Bloomberg's gonna use him for some PR tomorrow, going to City Hall to have a meeting. The attacker is a college student that just came back from Afghanistan where he was a correspondent embedded with the Marines, all for a senior project... irrc at School of Visual Arts.
Guess those times there really created some type of psychological problem for him, or maybe he was just drunk. Thats what I heard at least.
Interesting, so it's a Muslim on Muslim crime? Maybe the Afghan student was against Park51.
It was an American student who was in Afghanistan with the marines for a senior project. Just like it says in the post you quoted. Some of you people should employ others to do your thinking for you, clearly the challenge of reading is too great.
I just looked this up. The attacker in the taxi was an American student who works for a liberal organization that supports the mosque.
This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51.
a) not a mosque
b) do you honestly believe this guy is going to slit someone's throat and serve max 25 years in federal prison just to generate sympathy for a fucking ymca? or are you just trolling
a) 2000 person prayer hall, yes it's a mosque. big one at that.
b) not trolling. there have been "islamaphobic" attacks faked in the past
On August 26 2010 12:39 Disregard wrote: Bloomberg's gonna use him for some PR tomorrow, going to City Hall to have a meeting. The attacker is a college student that just came back from Afghanistan where he was a correspondent embedded with the Marines, all for a senior project... irrc at School of Visual Arts.
Guess those times there really created some type of psychological problem for him, or maybe he was just drunk. Thats what I heard at least.
Interesting, so it's a Muslim on Muslim crime? Maybe the Afghan student was against Park51.
It was an American student who was in Afghanistan with the marines for a senior project. Just like it says in the post you quoted. Some of you people should employ others to do your thinking for you, clearly the challenge of reading is too great.
I just looked this up. The attacker in the taxi was an American student who works for a liberal organization that supports the mosque.
This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51.
a) not a mosque
b) do you honestly believe this guy is going to slit someone's throat and serve max 25 years in federal prison just to generate sympathy for a fucking ymca? or are you just trolling
a) 2000 person prayer hall, yes it's a mosque. big one at that.
b) not trolling. there have been "islamaphobic" attacks faked in the past
I see two possibilities here. - He's a liberal and feels so strongly about it that he is willing to take 25 years in prison and possibly kill a Muslim to defend Muslim rights. He hadn't considered that it's on record that some people who he worked for at some point released a statement which said their opinion, and not his, was that it should go ahead. - His experience in Afghan traumatized him and left him violently against Islam. He got drunk and some PTSD kicked in.
On August 26 2010 12:39 Disregard wrote: Bloomberg's gonna use him for some PR tomorrow, going to City Hall to have a meeting. The attacker is a college student that just came back from Afghanistan where he was a correspondent embedded with the Marines, all for a senior project... irrc at School of Visual Arts.
Guess those times there really created some type of psychological problem for him, or maybe he was just drunk. Thats what I heard at least.
Interesting, so it's a Muslim on Muslim crime? Maybe the Afghan student was against Park51.
It was an American student who was in Afghanistan with the marines for a senior project. Just like it says in the post you quoted. Some of you people should employ others to do your thinking for you, clearly the challenge of reading is too great.
I just looked this up. The attacker in the taxi was an American student who works for a liberal organization that supports the mosque.
This was a pathetic attempt at faking an Islamaphobic attack intended to generate sympathy for Park51.
a) not a mosque
b) do you honestly believe this guy is going to slit someone's throat and serve max 25 years in federal prison just to generate sympathy for a fucking ymca? or are you just trolling
a) 2000 person prayer hall, yes it's a mosque. big one at that.
b) not trolling. there have been "islamaphobic" attacks faked in the past
I see two possibilities here. - He's a liberal and feels so strongly about it that he is willing to take 25 years in prison and possibly kill a Muslim to defend Muslim rights. He hadn't considered that it's on record that some people who he worked for at some point released a statement which said their opinion, and not his, was that it should go ahead. - His experience in Afghan traumatized him and left him violently against Islam. He got drunk and some PTSD kicked in.
I don't know which one it is, both are possible at this point. We'll find out soon enough. In any case, hes a nutjob.
On August 26 2010 07:45 bdams19 wrote: damn... I live on 1st and 20th and that shit is crazy. People are all pissed off about this 9/11 mosque bs are being ridiculous.
He said the mosque isn't an insult to 9/11 family members, yet those family members themselves disagree. He then states that the "community center" isn't even a mosque because a mosque is "only" used for worship (entirely wrong, and a strawman). He then ignores mosques here in the US that have supported terrorism by calling up one with a pipebomb (omission of truth). He then says the pipebomb would have killed all 60 worshipers. I wasn't aware he was a ballistics expert (another strawman). He then says islamic men and women face a greater threat of being murdered, without any evidence (another strawman). He then omits that Cordoba was indeed conquered by muslims, just skips it and jumps to later on when the Ottoman empire crushed it (another omission). He then says that the mosque was turned back into a church, which is wasn't, a church was built inside the mosque (another omission). He then brings up another strawman, other places or worship are closer (because they were there before 9/11). Another strawman, an incoherent sentence about free business and enterprise. And then another omission, and jumping to a completely random thing, why we went into Iraq. That's easy, because Saddam pays islamic terrorists, just like Iran, Yemen, and other countries in the region. And then another strawman, ignoring that Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people (a man after Hitlers own heart), and instead saying we went there to free "muslims", making the assumption that we only free what, jewish people? And another omission, that all of our previous generations fought for freedom (that most certainly isn't true of the Democratic Party). And another strawman, trying to claim that the purpose for stopping the mosque is the same as what the terrorists who flew planes into the twin towers wanted; "to change America". And then another strawman, finding some random person with an equally random idea against Islam and quoting it as if there is some master plan to wipe all islamic faith from the country. He then ends with a famous strawman, that our founders stopped intolerance. That wasn't true until the Republican Party was created to oppose the (racist) Democratic party.
So in 12 and a half minutes, that was a whole lot of fallicies.
I'll see your Olbermann and raise you someone who can read;
EDIT:
On August 26 2010 13:26 benjammin wrote: a prayer hall does not a mosque make
sure looks fake, doesn't it. what a publicity stunt!
If the guy really wanted to kill the cab driver, the cut to the throat would have been fatal, he obviously didn't want to kill him. And you act like similar things haven't happened, namely the man who commited suicide and tried to make it look like some anti government (right-wing) people had hanged him.
^ this post is so confused, I don't have the energy to refute it.
There are 5000 (five THOUSAND) muslims fighting in the American army. They are doing their job to contribute to this nation. To FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.
EXTREMISTS are trying to 'hijack' Islam. And listening to your rant, they're succeeding! They have convinced you that Islam equals terrorism! But you're wrong! (25% of the world's population is Islam--almost ALL are peaceful. Are you saying American should declare war to them because of a FEW individuals?)
Listen to this, for instance: . It's a story about an Islam AMERICAN soldier who died in Iraq FIGHTING FOR AMERICA. What have you done for this country?
This is McCarthyism all over again (wiki that term). Fear-mongering, scape-goating, the oldest tools in the box to get people riled up and into mass-hysteria.
He said the mosque isn't an insult to 9/11 family members, yet those family members themselves disagree. He then states that the "community center" isn't even a mosque because a mosque is "only" used for worship (entirely wrong, and a strawman). He then ignores mosques here in the US that have supported terrorism by calling up one with a pipebomb (omission of truth). He then says the pipebomb would have killed all 60 worshipers. I wasn't aware he was a ballistics expert (another strawman). He then says islamic men and women face a greater threat of being murdered, without any evidence (another strawman). He then omits that Cordoba was indeed conquered by muslims, just skips it and jumps to later on when the Ottoman empire crushed it (another omission). He then says that the mosque was turned back into a church, which is wasn't, a church was built inside the mosque (another omission). He then brings up another strawman, other places or worship are closer (because they were there before 9/11). Another strawman, an incoherent sentence about free business and enterprise. And then another omission, and jumping to a completely random thing, why we went into Iraq. That's easy, because Saddam pays islamic terrorists, just like Iran, Yemen, and other countries in the region. And then another strawman, ignoring that Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people (a man after Hitlers own heart), and instead saying we went there to free "muslims", making the assumption that we only free what, jewish people? And another omission, that all of our previous generations fought for freedom (that most certainly isn't true of the Democratic Party). And another strawman, trying to claim that the purpose for stopping the mosque is the same as what the terrorists who flew planes into the twin towers wanted; "to change America". And then another strawman, finding some random person with an equally random idea against Islam and quoting it as if there is some master plan to wipe all islamic faith from the country. He then ends with a famous strawman, that our founders stopped intolerance. That wasn't true until the Republican Party was created to oppose the (racist) Democratic party.
So in 12 and a half minutes, that was a whole lot of fallicies.
I'll see your Olbermann and raise you someone who can read;
On August 26 2010 13:26 benjammin wrote: a prayer hall does not a mosque make
sure looks fake, doesn't it. what a publicity stunt!
If the guy really wanted to kill the cab driver, the cut to the throat would have been fatal, he obviously didn't want to kill him. And you act like similar things haven't happened, namely the man who commited suicide and tried to make it look like some anti government (right-wing) people had hanged him.
No, you're an idiot. Whoever made that video is an idiot, not to mention an annoying shit head. "3 things you didn't know about Islam"? Are you fucking serious? You're attempting to make some serious argument and you put a video like that in your post? The whole video just goes over the evil things about Islam, the contradictions and generally disgusting things written in the Qu'ran. Really it should say "3 things you didn't know about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING RELIGION ON THE PLANET", but of course, you wouldn't scare anyone into believing what you believe that way so what's the point?
The best part about this post is the end where you actually and seriously suggest that the man in the photo "would have been dead if he was really trying to kill him". Yeah, what a great fucking stunt to almost take someones life in order to protect the rights of his people. Shit, I'll bet he was even in on it too! Fucking god damned terrorists and liberals trying to take over the world again, what has this world come too?
Some people really are fucked up, why would someone swing a knife at someones face if you hate them so much? You are the one who will get in the most trouble.
On August 26 2010 13:41 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Keith Olbermann is an idiot.
He said the mosque isn't an insult to 9/11 family members, yet those family members themselves disagree. He then states that the "community center" isn't even a mosque because a mosque is "only" used for worship (entirely wrong, and a strawman). He then ignores mosques here in the US that have supported terrorism by calling up one with a pipebomb (omission of truth). He then says the pipebomb would have killed all 60 worshipers. I wasn't aware he was a ballistics expert (another strawman). He then says islamic men and women face a greater threat of being murdered, without any evidence (another strawman). He then omits that Cordoba was indeed conquered by muslims, just skips it and jumps to later on when the Ottoman empire crushed it (another omission). He then says that the mosque was turned back into a church, which is wasn't, a church was built inside the mosque (another omission). He then brings up another strawman, other places or worship are closer (because they were there before 9/11). Another strawman, an incoherent sentence about free business and enterprise. And then another omission, and jumping to a completely random thing, why we went into Iraq. That's easy, because Saddam pays islamic terrorists, just like Iran, Yemen, and other countries in the region. And then another strawman, ignoring that Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people (a man after Hitlers own heart), and instead saying we went there to free "muslims", making the assumption that we only free what, jewish people? And another omission, that all of our previous generations fought for freedom (that most certainly isn't true of the Democratic Party). And another strawman, trying to claim that the purpose for stopping the mosque is the same as what the terrorists who flew planes into the twin towers wanted; "to change America". And then another strawman, finding some random person with an equally random idea against Islam and quoting it as if there is some master plan to wipe all islamic faith from the country. He then ends with a famous strawman, that our founders stopped intolerance. That wasn't true until the Republican Party was created to oppose the (racist) Democratic party.
So in 12 and a half minutes, that was a whole lot of fallicies.
I'll see your Olbermann and raise you someone who can read;
On August 26 2010 13:26 benjammin wrote: a prayer hall does not a mosque make
sure looks fake, doesn't it. what a publicity stunt!
If the guy really wanted to kill the cab driver, the cut to the throat would have been fatal, he obviously didn't want to kill him. And you act like similar things haven't happened, namely the man who commited suicide and tried to make it look like some anti government (right-wing) people had hanged him.
yes, someone who slashed a guy's throat was *OBVIOUSLY* not trying to kill him. No, really, do you actually think and reread your posts before hitting submit?
also, stop using the word "strawman" when you have no idea what that means
I am someone who has supported the (whatever you want to call the Muslim building) being built, but this is downright fishy. If someone had a knife, and was able to stab him in the neck, he EASILY could have killed this guy. In fact, I would say it is almost impossible that someone in that position would fail to kill him. It would take like 2 seconds to kill someone in that position.
Holy fuck, conspiracy theory! This one is bigger and more elaborate than anything I've ever heard. There is of course some chance that it's actually true. However, those far away and not all that dangerous can be safely ignored while we work to influence the Muslims that are nearby and part of our immediate society.
Even if the commandments of the Qu'ran are absolute, there is no reason why outsiders can't undermine the ethics of violence and domination into ethics of coexistence and cooperation. Muslims are people and the Qu'ran is a book. Its rules are upheld by society, and rules get evolve to suit the needs of society.
Seriously I know quite a lot of Muslims and they've all come around. But who knows. Maybe they were all just putting up an elaborate facade. That would be one hell of a crazy conspiracy. (If you thought 9/11 truthers were crazy...)
On August 26 2010 14:49 BigBadSkathe wrote: No, you're an idiot. Whoever made that video is an idiot, not to mention an annoying shit head. "3 things you didn't know about Islam"? Are you fucking serious? You're attempting to make some serious argument and you put a video like that in your post? The whole video just goes over the evil things about Islam, the contradictions and generally disgusting things written in the Qu'ran. Really it should say "3 things you didn't know about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING RELIGION ON THE PLANET", but of course, you wouldn't scare anyone into believing what you believe that way so what's the point?
The best part about this post is the end where you actually and seriously suggest that the man in the photo "would have been dead if he was really trying to kill him". Yeah, what a great fucking stunt to almost take someones life in order to protect the rights of his people. Shit, I'll bet he was even in on it too! Fucking god damned terrorists and liberals trying to take over the world again, what has this world come too?
Yup, insults and no actual argument. You didn't refute anything, just insults. Rather than insulting, why don't you break down what is said in the video, and then post why it's wrong.
On August 26 2010 15:01 javy925 wrote:also, stop using the word "strawman" when you have no idea what that means
a strawman is creating an misrepresenting an argument, which is or course, making one up entirely. Which he did multiple times.
On August 26 2010 15:34 TanGeng wrote: Holy fuck, conspiracy theory! This one is bigger and more elaborate than anything I've ever heard. There is of course some chance that it's actually true. However, those far away and not all that dangerous can be safely ignored while we work to influence the Muslims that are nearby and part of our immediate society.
Even if the commandments of the Qu'ran are absolute, there is no reason why outsiders can't undermine the ethics of violence and domination into ethics of coexistence and cooperation. Muslims are people and the Qu'ran is a book. Its rules are upheld by society, and rules get evolve to suit the needs of society.
Seriously I know quite a lot of Muslims and they've all come around. But who knows. Maybe they were all just putting up an elaborate facade. That would be one hell of a crazy conspiracy. (If you thought 9/11 truthers were crazy...)
There are only one set of rules. Sharia law dictates everything. Everything. From the food you eat, to the way you dress, to the way to you act and what you are allowed to say. And there are no outsiders, you're either muslim or you are dead. It also isn't a conspiracy, as it's what the Qur'an says.
On August 26 2010 15:14 Mohdoo wrote: I am someone who has supported the (whatever you want to call the Muslim building) being built, but this is downright fishy. If someone had a knife, and was able to stab him in the neck, he EASILY could have killed this guy. In fact, I would say it is almost impossible that someone in that position would fail to kill him. It would take like 2 seconds to kill someone in that position.
...Wow. Consider me a formerly pro-(whatever you want to call the Muslim building) individual.
Man I hate it when people post youtube videos like that. I have the power to edit them out but I dislike using it on opinions, even when they're as horribly misinformed and misleading as the ones in that video. I'm letting it stand at present because imo it probably falls under an opinion and people are allowed wrong opinions. But please don't start treating it like facts, it's a youtube video ffs, of course it's bollocks.
If I can't trust you people to tell the difference between facts and youtube videos then I'm going to have to start censoring opinions to protect your silly little minds and nobody wants that. Just please, exercise a little skepticism.
On August 26 2010 15:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:There are only one set of rules. Sharia law dictates everything. Everything. From the food you eat, to the way you dress, to the way to you act and what you are allowed to say. And there are no outsiders, you're either muslim or you are dead. It also isn't a conspiracy, as it's what the Qur'an says.
I have a friend who is both gay and Muslim. Obviously that's against the Qur'an (and the Bible) but he manages to get around it by choosing to ignore that bit because it's stupid. And while some of the fundamentalists would say he's not a true Muslim (just as the God hates fags guys would say you can't be gay and Christian) he manages to get around that by choosing to ignore them because they're stupid. And I expect you'll say that you're not allowed to ignore bits in Islam but guess what, he gets around that by ignoring it because it's stupid.
Religion is what you make of it. My friend's parents immigrated from Bangladesh but he's grown up all his life in Britain and those are the cultural values he recognises as his own.
EPT
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