EPTThe Big Programming Thread - Page 638
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Thread Rules 1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution. 2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20) 3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible. 4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks. | ||
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Nesserev
Belgium2760 Posts
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Prillan
Sweden350 Posts
On June 05 2015 11:05 Nesserev wrote: Can you elaborate on university math being "extremely against human nature"? The only thing I've never liked about math in education, is having to reproduce (very complicated) proofs on a test/exam. Studying proofs for understanding is very helpful to get better insight, but reproduction is such a waste of time... just because they're 'easy questions' to ask. When a proof is very important, or shows a very important relationship; I'm totally okay with having to study those proofs, but seriously, every fcking proof and lemma? Some professors ask you to explain the (passage of a) proof with the proof at hand... bless those people. Yes, please elaborate! I don't think I've ever had anyone tell me to reproduce a proof like that. I've had people ask you to prove similar things to show that you understand the methods. I've even had an oral exam in a course (representation theory for finite groups) where we were asked to just "sketch" the proof to show that we had a general understanding of it. Forcing people to remember all the details (in any area, really, not just math) is just stupid and should be banned. | ||
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Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
Even here there was a decent amount of memorisation required (question 9a - State the Deduction Theorem). There were then extra parts where you had to use that knowledge, but there was a lot of "Remember these things". I don't like the exams where there are just 20 questions asking you to splurge up what you've remembered onto a page over and over again, but I think there's a lot to be said for testing what you've learned in a way that everyone can do and a fair amount of that is basically saying "do you remember how to do this please show me". | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17469 Posts
On June 04 2015 23:21 killa_robot wrote: That's not so bad really. No higher education doesn't mean they have no experience in programming. Lots of people do it in their spare time after all. Unless you mean to tell me most of these were people without experience in programming as well. The official company policy is that your education doesn't matter at all as long as you're good at programming (which tends to work well since we're turning down plenty of applicants with CS degrees who simply can't do the simplest stuff) so I guess they've had some experience. The company also hires people who aren't necessarily good or experienced but who show promise (it's surprising how many people can't even use google to look for solutions, my personal favorite was the girl who wanted a front-end dev posting, didn't know how to do simple things in jQuery and when told she could use the web to figure it out she started browsing minified jQuery library to try and find the answers there...). We give them 3-month internship to see if they can pick things up, if they do they get the job, if they don't they don't. At the company I worked at previously the dev team lead didn't even finish highschool but was working as a programmer since he was 16. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
on the plus side, TIL that you can pass a datatable as a parameter to a sql server stored procedure. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On June 06 2015 07:10 Mindcrime wrote: I work for a company that does SAAS for insurance companies, and today, while investigating timeouts in production, we discovered that our quote/policy search algorithms are pretty fucking silly. At one point we call a stored proc that returns a datatable of 4 columns from one table. Immediately after doing this, we remove three of those columns and pass in the remaining 1 column datatable to another stored proc. And the comments indicate that this whole section was refactored a couple of years ago for performance gains. what the shit on the plus side, TIL that you can pass a datatable as a parameter to a sql server stored procedure. If that's the silliest example of code you can come up with, you are truly fortunate. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Holyfuck is it a waste of time, im currently doing (or atleast trying to get the motivation to actually finish) the end project of the second semester of the second year. The project, make a simplle crud system on a given database of 4 tables, like pleaseT_T althou to be fair there was a really hard part in it, you have to make sure there is a navbar........ I have to waste my lovely weekend on this shit, and people still expect me try my best (like that is even possible with such shit level projects). I could have spended this time reading the next chapter of code complete or some other book and learn some something. going to community colleges for programming is a massive massive of fucking time when you are able to learn your self the slightest bits of theory. After having java and oop php for more than 10 months, they are still having the world of trouble with understanding a constructor and how to use one. | ||
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bioboyAT
Austria1763 Posts
Started working part-time and that quite helps to learn something. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On June 07 2015 00:11 sabas123 wrote: rant about my school + Show Spoiler + Holyfuck is it a waste of time, im currently doing (or atleast trying to get the motivation to actually finish) the end project of the second semester of the second year. The project, make a simplle crud system on a given database of 4 tables, like pleaseT_T althou to be fair there was a really hard part in it, you have to make sure there is a navbar........ I have to waste my lovely weekend on this shit, and people still expect me try my best (like that is even possible with such shit level projects). I could have spended this time reading the next chapter of code complete or some other book and learn some something. going to community colleges for programming is a massive massive of fucking time when you are able to learn your self the slightest bits of theory. After having java and oop php for more than 10 months, they are still having the world of trouble with understanding a constructor and how to use one. Don't expect to learn how to program at school/university. You go there because it's a way to get a job interview. Pick up useful stuff (like algorithms and logic/math concepts) while you're there anyways. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On June 07 2015 00:11 sabas123 wrote: rant about my school + Show Spoiler + Holyfuck is it a waste of time, im currently doing (or atleast trying to get the motivation to actually finish) the end project of the second semester of the second year. The project, make a simplle crud system on a given database of 4 tables, like pleaseT_T althou to be fair there was a really hard part in it, you have to make sure there is a navbar........ I have to waste my lovely weekend on this shit, and people still expect me try my best (like that is even possible with such shit level projects). I could have spended this time reading the next chapter of code complete or some other book and learn some something. going to community colleges for programming is a massive massive of fucking time when you are able to learn your self the slightest bits of theory. After having java and oop php for more than 10 months, they are still having the world of trouble with understanding a constructor and how to use one. Where are you going to college? And what kind of other projects have you done already? | ||
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wl4d
France103 Posts
tl;dr should I quit my job to learn something new ? Edit : I'm asking to know if it's realistic to get hired (EU/France but I can move) at a reasonnable job (software engineer) while being pretty much auto-didact (I have a master in sys/network admin but no professionnal xp in dev) I'm a sysadmin/devops and I would like to go in software development, especially working as a kernel developper (unix) would really appeal me. I've been trying for the past few weeks to study from books and browsing code but it is really hard to find time in a given day to really sit down and focus. I have a bit of money on the side (I can live 6 months without income, probably), do you think it's a good move for me to quit my job, study OSes for 6 months, and then try to get hired somewhere ? Another option would be to negociate with my company so they give me 6 months off but hire me back at the end of it... | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On June 07 2015 02:50 wl4d wrote: Hi, tl;dr should I quit my job to learn something new ? Edit : I'm asking to know if it's realistic to get hired (EU/France but I can move) at a reasonnable job (software engineer) while being pretty much auto-didact (I have a master in sys/network admin but no professionnal xp in dev) I'm a sysadmin/devops and I would like to go in software development, especially working as a kernel developper (unix) would really appeal me. I've been trying for the past few weeks to study from books and browsing code but it is really hard to find time in a given day to really sit down and focus. I have a bit of money on the side (I can live 6 months without income, probably), do you think it's a good move for me to quit my job, study OSes for 6 months, and then try to get hired somewhere ? Another option would be to negociate with my company so they give me 6 months off but hire me back at the end of it... There are about 50 jobs worldwide that have anything to do with kernel programming. All of them require very, very experienced programmers. If you want to go into software development, the easiest way is web development, which is easy to pick up, pays well and there are thousands of places where you can work as one. If you want work close to the system it gets much harder to find a job, especially without prior professional experience and no related education. There is a far smaller amount of jobs and lots of people that want to get into that field, most of them experienced. It's much easier to start as a dev op or admin in a company that does software development and transition from there into the actual development inside the company. | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On June 05 2015 21:46 Manit0u wrote: The official company policy is that your education doesn't matter at all as long as you're good at programming (which tends to work well since we're turning down plenty of applicants with CS degrees who simply can't do the simplest stuff) so I guess they've had some experience. The company also hires people who aren't necessarily good or experienced but who show promise (it's surprising how many people can't even use google to look for solutions, my personal favorite was the girl who wanted a front-end dev posting, didn't know how to do simple things in jQuery and when told she could use the web to figure it out she started browsing minified jQuery library to try and find the answers there...). We give them 3-month internship to see if they can pick things up, if they do they get the job, if they don't they don't. At the company I worked at previously the dev team lead didn't even finish highschool but was working as a programmer since he was 16. I get the feeling the girl showed something other than promise if she was hired with such poor skills. Everyone I went to university with hated programming, and most didn't get it, so I'm honestly not surprised so many people do poorly. | ||
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_fool
Netherlands678 Posts
I've been a java programmer for the last 6-7 years. Mostly web, mostly Spring/Hibernate/Sql/Tomcat stuff, with various front end front end frameworks (FYI: most of them suck  ) All of that was Java Standard Edition.Recently I've been offered a job that is fully Java Enterprise Edition based. EJB's, JSF, JBoss, the works. I have zero previous experience with that. Has anyone here made that switch (either from Java SE to Java EE or the other way around)? Would you consider it a step forward or back? I personally feel like it would be a good experience to have, and I'm leaning towards accepting the job, even though it might be a bit more conservative from a technical point of view. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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wl4d
France103 Posts
On June 07 2015 03:05 Morfildur wrote: There are about 50 jobs worldwide that have anything to do with kernel programming. All of them require very, very experienced programmers. If you want to go into software development, the easiest way is web development, which is easy to pick up, pays well and there are thousands of places where you can work as one. If you want work close to the system it gets much harder to find a job, especially without prior professional experience and no related education. There is a far smaller amount of jobs and lots of people that want to get into that field, most of them experienced. It's much easier to start as a dev op or admin in a company that does software development and transition from there into the actual development inside the company. Thanks for the answer. My other dream was to be a cpu architect but there are like 3 jobs in the world, so I have 20 times more chances to do that. I guess I will keep at studying in my spare time and start contributing to opensource projects, maybe I'll make some connections... | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On June 07 2015 01:54 solidbebe wrote: Where are you going to college? And what kind of other projects have you done already? Im going to a local community college in a small town in The Netherlands. So far my projects would include a social network, 2 mini game eninges (unfinished) and a websocket chat in php. The thing that saddens me is that there are no ds/algorithm classesT_T would have loved to take those. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On June 07 2015 18:00 wl4d wrote: Thanks for the answer. My other dream was to be a cpu architect but there are like 3 jobs in the world, so I have 20 times more chances to do that. I guess I will keep at studying in my spare time and start contributing to opensource projects, maybe I'll make some connections... What's the appeal of these two things for you? The only connection I can see is fame ("a billion people are using something I made"). If you want to get into kernel programming, you'll have to start as a regular programmer with a passion and keep improving outside of work. Just your spare time will hardly be enough. That aside, most programming is the same at the core. The more passion you have for programming itself, the less it matters exactly what you are programming. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
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