The Big Programming Thread - Page 364

On October 02 2013 09:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:


Then why start with Java. Why not use Haskell?

1. Its a "higher level of abstraction" to Java.
2. You can write things with less code.
3. You can problem solve better with Haskell
4. You don't have to worry about memory management as much as Java

Here's a quicksort implementation in Java

Java
+ Show Spoiler +

Here's the same function converted to Haskell

qsort (p:xs) = qsort [x | x<-xs, x<p] ++ [p] ++ qsort [x | x<-xs, x>=p]

Ok fine ill be nice

quicksort (p:xs) = (quicksort lesser) ++ [p] ++ (quicksort greater)
    where
        lesser  = filter (< p) xs
        greater = filter (>= p) xs

If you are going to mention that people shouldn't start on advanced concepts like functional programming as a beginner I am going to say well beginners shouldn't be starting with OO either for the exact same reason.

If you are going to say the Haskell implementation is more complicated because as a beginner its too cryptic, well then lets look at something trivial like Hello world.

Java

class HelloWorldApp {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello World!"); // Display the string.
    }
}

C

main() {
    printf("Hello World");
}

Haskell

putStrLn "Hello, World!"

Note that Java is the most complicated of the lot.

Note that it would take an equivalent amount of time to explain what "class" and "static void" mean, than it would to explain any terminology in Haskell. I'm not saying that we should use Haskell to teach beginners, I am showing the illogical reasoning behind teaching Java as a first language and exposing the silliness of the argument with the example of Haskell.

I'm not saying people should learn how a CPU is wired, because you don't need to know that to program, however you need to know Structured Programming to write good OOP code. You don't use assembly or binary in programming, but you always use Structured Programming no matter what, and without learning Structured Programming you are missing out on an essential fundamental platform with which you should base all your programming on.