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Political Roll Call - Page 9

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Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
February 01 2010 16:44 GMT
#161
Russian communism promotes equality, yes? I don't think you can say left = equality and right = hierarchy. That is just our current conception now because that is how present politics evolved. There is little practical difference between a system of forced equality and a system of forced inequality. Its still forced.

Also, are you from the right? Apparently there's no question that totalitarian is right...

I'm not arguing that fascism is right. I'm saying that far left and far right are not that dissimilar.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
February 01 2010 16:45 GMT
#162
On February 02 2010 01:43 fox[tail] wrote:
All i wanted to say is that fascism should not be put together with the far-right. The word fascist is used to describe a lot of things that have nothing to do with it. Just because some of these right-wing movements since WW2 have described themselves as neo-nazis does not mean that they are all fascists, do these people have an economic plan... no. These people only follow the Darwinist theories that fascism promoted. You shouldn't generalize ideologies, thats all i'm saying.
If you took that political roll call test in that other thread, look at where Hitler is on that graph, just slightly to the right of that left-right scale.
Just because I play Starcraft, does not mean I play every rts, or that i play any other for that matter

There's only one kind of fascism that we talk about. And that's the one on the wikipedia page.

I'm curious how they got Hitler's results on that test hahaha...
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
February 01 2010 16:46 GMT
#163
You can define left as collectivist and right as individualist. You don't have to define it as left = equality and right = hierarchy.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-01 16:50:46
February 01 2010 16:49 GMT
#164
On February 02 2010 01:45 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:43 fox[tail] wrote:
All i wanted to say is that fascism should not be put together with the far-right. The word fascist is used to describe a lot of things that have nothing to do with it. Just because some of these right-wing movements since WW2 have described themselves as neo-nazis does not mean that they are all fascists, do these people have an economic plan... no. These people only follow the Darwinist theories that fascism promoted. You shouldn't generalize ideologies, thats all i'm saying.
If you took that political roll call test in that other thread, look at where Hitler is on that graph, just slightly to the right of that left-right scale.
Just because I play Starcraft, does not mean I play every rts, or that i play any other for that matter

There's only one kind of fascism that we talk about. And that's the one on the wikipedia page.

I'm curious how they got Hitler's results on that test hahaha...


The problem about talking about one kind of fascism is...that its hard to define fascism. Or which fascism is the true fascism. Plus a lot of people misunderstand fascism. Fascism is more like a euphemism nowdays. Generally for rightist people who leftists hate.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
February 01 2010 16:50 GMT
#165
On February 02 2010 01:44 Incognito wrote:
Russian communism promotes equality, yes? I don't think you can say left = equality and right = hierarchy. That is just our current conception now because that is how present politics evolved. There is little practical difference between a system of forced equality and a system of forced inequality. Its still forced.

Also, are you from the right? Apparently there's no question that totalitarian is right...

I'm not arguing that fascism is right. I'm saying that far left and far right are not that dissimilar.

Depends, Leninism or Stalinism?

Left does = equality and right does = hierarchy.

There's no "forced equality" about communism. There is a "forced inequality" from fascism.

Yes, there is no question that totalitarian is right. I'm apparently super left by the way.

Far left is different from far right. Communism is very different from fascism.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
February 01 2010 16:54 GMT
#166
On February 02 2010 01:50 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:44 Incognito wrote:
Russian communism promotes equality, yes? I don't think you can say left = equality and right = hierarchy. That is just our current conception now because that is how present politics evolved. There is little practical difference between a system of forced equality and a system of forced inequality. Its still forced.

Also, are you from the right? Apparently there's no question that totalitarian is right...

I'm not arguing that fascism is right. I'm saying that far left and far right are not that dissimilar.

Depends, Leninism or Stalinism?

Left does = equality and right does = hierarchy.

There's no "forced equality" about communism. There is a "forced inequality" from fascism.

Yes, there is no question that totalitarian is right. I'm apparently super left by the way.

Far left is different from far right. Communism is very different from fascism.


Real communism is different from fascism. Unfortunately Russian communism, either Leninism or Stalinism, is not. Read my other comments.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 01 2010 16:54 GMT
#167
On February 02 2010 01:50 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:44 Incognito wrote:
Russian communism promotes equality, yes? I don't think you can say left = equality and right = hierarchy. That is just our current conception now because that is how present politics evolved. There is little practical difference between a system of forced equality and a system of forced inequality. Its still forced.

Also, are you from the right? Apparently there's no question that totalitarian is right...

I'm not arguing that fascism is right. I'm saying that far left and far right are not that dissimilar.

Depends, Leninism or Stalinism?

Left does = equality and right does = hierarchy.

There's no "forced equality" about communism. There is a "forced inequality" from fascism.

Yes, there is no question that totalitarian is right. I'm apparently super left by the way.

Far left is different from far right. Communism is very different from fascism.


I'm not saying Communism and Fascism are the same, just that Fascism != far right
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
February 01 2010 16:54 GMT
#168
On February 02 2010 01:46 Incognito wrote:
You can define left as collectivist and right as individualist. You don't have to define it as left = equality and right = hierarchy.

Not necessarily. Collectivist doesn't imply equality. And there's a difference between class and individualist. Think caste system.

Fascism is the same in its goals. Their only difference is how to get there.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
agorist
Profile Joined July 2009
United States115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-01 17:04:28
February 01 2010 16:56 GMT
#169
The extreme left is synonymous with the extreme right. I find it unrealistic that any system becomes either far-left or far-right, rather, they all diverge south towards statism.

Both require force to maintain and preserve. When one lacks either social or economic freedom, the other that they possess becomes meaningless.

Egalitarianism is bogus; the potential of all humans differs. The only feasible form of egalitarianism is a system in which no law benefits or punishes a particular class.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-01 16:59:52
February 01 2010 16:58 GMT
#170
Is this poll going to be changed? Fascism belongs with the centrists, or it needs its own place in that list

EDIT: Or the Corporatists
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-01 17:01:43
February 01 2010 17:00 GMT
#171
On February 02 2010 01:54 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:46 Incognito wrote:
You can define left as collectivist and right as individualist. You don't have to define it as left = equality and right = hierarchy.

Not necessarily. Collectivist doesn't imply equality. And there's a difference between class and individualist. Think caste system.

Fascism is the same in its goals. Their only difference is how to get there.


What?? You're using your definition as a standard to judge my alternative proposed definition? You can't really do that...Just look at left/right strictly in terms of individualist/collectivist. Then maybe add equality as another factor, not as the absolute standard.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
February 01 2010 17:01 GMT
#172
On February 02 2010 01:58 fox[tail] wrote:
Is this poll going to be changed? Fascism belongs with the centrists, or it needs its own place in that list

EDIT: Or the Corporatists


There's already a new one. Look under Political Roll Call Test
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 01 2010 17:03 GMT
#173
On February 02 2010 02:01 Incognito wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:58 fox[tail] wrote:
Is this poll going to be changed? Fascism belongs with the centrists, or it needs its own place in that list

EDIT: Or the Corporatists


There's already a new one. Look under Political Roll Call Test


What new one? I was thinking about changing this one...
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
Yurebis
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1452 Posts
February 01 2010 17:15 GMT
#174
Screw polls, they are only mathematical constructs anyway
fuck the pooh leece! lols
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
ZooG
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden618 Posts
February 01 2010 17:23 GMT
#175
On January 29 2010 17:24 Liquid`Drone wrote:
something inbetween socialist, social democrat and anarchist

meaning that I want small disparity between rich and poor, a state that takes care of all basic needs, and the freedom to express myself and do whatever the hell I please as long as nobody else suffers from it.


this pretty much sums me up too!
"Rain, also a name for a meteorological condition" -Artosis
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
February 01 2010 18:38 GMT
#176
On February 02 2010 02:00 Incognito wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 01:54 Mystlord wrote:
On February 02 2010 01:46 Incognito wrote:
You can define left as collectivist and right as individualist. You don't have to define it as left = equality and right = hierarchy.

Not necessarily. Collectivist doesn't imply equality. And there's a difference between class and individualist. Think caste system.

Fascism is the same in its goals. Their only difference is how to get there.


What?? You're using your definition as a standard to judge my alternative proposed definition? You can't really do that...Just look at left/right strictly in terms of individualist/collectivist. Then maybe add equality as another factor, not as the absolute standard.

Oh. K. My brain wasn't working apparently.

Unfortunately by that definition, fascism and nationalism would both fall under left. Caste system would be in the nowhere area, aristocracy would be in the nowhere area as well.

Basically individualist only works if all right = capitalism, which isn't true.

And I still don't see why left = egalitarian and right = hierarchy and social order don't work.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
February 01 2010 18:40 GMT
#177
All you people who went on the internet to check that you were an anarchist: Lolz
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
February 01 2010 18:54 GMT
#178
On February 02 2010 03:38 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 02:00 Incognito wrote:
On February 02 2010 01:54 Mystlord wrote:
On February 02 2010 01:46 Incognito wrote:
You can define left as collectivist and right as individualist. You don't have to define it as left = equality and right = hierarchy.

Not necessarily. Collectivist doesn't imply equality. And there's a difference between class and individualist. Think caste system.

Fascism is the same in its goals. Their only difference is how to get there.


What?? You're using your definition as a standard to judge my alternative proposed definition? You can't really do that...Just look at left/right strictly in terms of individualist/collectivist. Then maybe add equality as another factor, not as the absolute standard.

Oh. K. My brain wasn't working apparently.

Unfortunately by that definition, fascism and nationalism would both fall under left. Caste system would be in the nowhere area, aristocracy would be in the nowhere area as well.

Basically individualist only works if all right = capitalism, which isn't true.

And I still don't see why left = egalitarian and right = hierarchy and social order don't work.


left = equality right = hierarchy is not exactly true. From the rightist perspective, its leftist propaganda (or at least its criticism thats coming from the left). From the Republican point of view they aren't hierarchical. A lot of them believe in equality but think that the free market will do it better than the government. Others care about equality but care about individualism more. Republicans/Democrats want the same things pretty much except they go about different ways of doing them. I don't think that makes both parties leftist. I'd take both definitions of left/right into account (there may be more definitions too) and say that its a circle. (Although I don't really like using the left-right categorizations). You can't just look at one category to describe political policies. Fascism/Communism/Nationalism/Socialism at the top of the circle and everything else in between.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
February 01 2010 19:05 GMT
#179
social left
Yurebis
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1452 Posts
February 01 2010 19:24 GMT
#180
On February 02 2010 03:40 cgrinker wrote:
All you people who went on the internet to check that you were an anarchist: Lolz

All you people who use the word anarchist on the internet without checking wikipedia: lolz
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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