EPTIt's hard enough to try to convince people on the internet, don't make it harder by calling them idiots for something that's very, from a psychological standpoint, common and understandable.
British national executed in China - Page 9
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
It's hard enough to try to convince people on the internet, don't make it harder by calling them idiots for something that's very, from a psychological standpoint, common and understandable. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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Spinfusor
Australia410 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: Then it is not punishment. Do not call it punishment, do not pretend it is punishment. The Death Penalty has nothing to do with punishment and plays no supported factor in deterrence. It is, plain and simple, killing. You may justify it however you please. Whether it be "lessening a burden" on society, or doing away with the trash. Every single reason not related to Law is the exact same reason any other killer in the world could use, and by your logic, would be justified. Sorry, but it is both punishment and killing. Justified or not, it is punishment. I might not support the death penalty, but it isn't because I think it is particularly cruel/inhumane. Personally I feel throwing someone in a room for the rest of their life (and no less a Chinese jail) is hardly merciful. | ||
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Myxomatosis
United States2392 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:23 TwoToneTerran wrote: Difference of opinion withstanding, don't insult him. It does nothing but drive your argument, no matter how reasonable to yourself, away from rationality and reason. It's hard enough to try to convince people on the internet, don't make it harder by calling them idiots for something that's very, from a psychological standpoint, common and understandable. there is nothing psychologically understandable about being a cold-hearted son of a bitch. if someone's views are stupid, they should be called out on it. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:26 Myxomatosis wrote: there is nothing psychologically understandable about being a cold-hearted son of a bitch. if someone's views are stupid, they should be called out on it. Nobody is being cold-hearted and want innocent people to die, that's just error made somewhere along the lines either through faulty evidence, racism and even bad eye witness accusations (mistakes happen). We're arguing about the people that are doing the killing and people having different opinions on which is more inhumane rotting in jail or lethal injection. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:24 BalliSLife wrote: Life imprisonment until they rot in jail? You'd be surprised how many people in jail would rather just go ahead with the capital punishment then sit in jail forever or 25 years even. imo if you take someone else's life you have completely lost you're right to live as well why spend tax payer money on keeping this dude alive? would you if they took someone close to you? and this does not count the unfortunate incidents where innocent lives have been taken through capital punishment on faulty evidence. That should be the convict's choice. If they opt to, they should be able to take a harsher penalty that is less burdensome, monetarily, to the public. But for those who wish to live, they should be allowed. Life imprisonment isn't merciful, by any means, but it is the best option we have without resorting to the death of innocents. On January 01 2010 12:30 BalliSLife wrote: Nobody is being cold-hearted and want innocent people to die, that's just error made somewhere along the lines either through faulty evidence, racism and even bad eye witness accusations (mistakes happen). We're arguing about the people that are doing the killing and people having different opinions on which is more inhumane rotting in jail or lethal injection. You can not separate the two. If you truly believe the death penalty should be exercised, then you must have weighed all the consequences. One of the consequences is the death of innocents -- presumably hundreds, considering I just showed proof of over a hundred death row inmates being absolved. How you weigh that is your own decision. On January 01 2010 12:26 Myxomatosis wrote: there is nothing psychologically understandable about being a cold-hearted son of a bitch. if someone's views are stupid, they should be called out on it. Yes there is. Humans are aggressive, impulsive animals. It's a miracle we've come as far as we have before doing away with each other (not for a lack of trying!). One of our great feats is to overcome base instinct, but we can't absolutely do away with instinct as that's what allows us to thrive, as well. We need a common ground, and in my case, I don't believe it is found with the Death Penalty. Others disagree, and while I won't say it's fine, I will respect their opinion and not insult them. Respect is the first step to understanding, and I'm sorry if you can't see it that way. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:38 BalliSLife wrote: So the convict chooses to live, you'll grant it to them after they murdered someone. I really don't know about that one dude. No, we grant them the choice to die. Either way they are never coming in contact with innocent people who aren't payed to handle them (IE Penitentiary jobs.) Why? Because life imprisonment. No Parole. No getting out. High security, surgically implanted trackers if you really want (it's a very simple process). They don't get the chance to get out unless they never belonged there in the first place, ala being absolved of guilt. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: No, we grant them the choice to die. Either way they are never coming in contact with innocent people who aren't payed to handle them (IE Penitentiary jobs.) Why? Because life imprisonment. No Parole. No getting out. High security, surgically implanted trackers if you really want (it's a very simple process). They don't get the chance to get out unless they never belonged there in the first place, ala being absolved of guilt. That's a great idea. If everyone was able to think like you the world would be a much better place but unfortunately there are people who only pass judgment through pure emotion alone (revenge) and cost benefit (government) when dealing with life imprisonment and cap punishment. I believe there is ongoing debate between which is more expensive lethal injection or life imprisonment does anyone know? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
edit -- reports say, in the USA atleast, Death Penalty is far more expensive by our judiciary standard. source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty I'm sure the opposite is true for China. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On January 01 2010 12:51 BalliSLife wrote: That's a great idea. If everyone was able to think like you the world would be a much better place but unfortunately there are people who only pass judgment through pure emotion alone (revenge) and cost benefit (government) when dealing with life imprisonment and cap punishment. I believe there is ongoing debate between which is more expensive lethal injection or life imprisonment does anyone know? Depends on the legal process. In a place like China, life imprisonment probably costs more. In the US, due to all the appeals and the lengthy court cases, Death Penalty costs more. I support Death Penalty if it's cheap for crimes like Murder and Rape, but not in the US cuz it costs too much. =/ | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On January 01 2010 11:29 TwoToneTerran wrote: One less jaywalker off the face of the planet. There's no line to draw with killing. You don't do it, there's no reason to do it. this isn't my benefit. I've never touched an illegal drug and hopefully never will. This is appealing to the sense of reason in folks to understand that capital punishment has no effect over imprisonment other than killing them. It MAY cut costs in China because they're much quicker to execute than America (The cost is negligible here because it's a long drawn out complicated process), but government equating human life to their changepurse is literally precedent for genocide. edit: and frankly, are you naive enough to think that that 4KG of Heroin never making it to the market will somehow curb heroin abuse? As has been said, heroin addicts are basically the absolute in desperation to get their high. A drop in the bucket won't do anything. If china is so serious about the drug game to murder a man for 4KGs of Heroin then they should be going for mass executions against drug trafficking areas. They don't because drug culture is profitable. They just caught one and like to play angry and appease the senseless masses. Um how exactly does economics equate to genocide? Won't have much tax revenue if you kill off all your citizens. Also, China has done mass executions of drug dealers. Hence why there are not large "drug trafficking areas" in China like you see in SE Asia, C. and S. America, Middle East, etc. Have you done any reading on the drug war in China? You sound like a ninny when talking about the subject. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Also, I remember reading a couple years back about China's drug war failing due to the rampant power and wealth of druglords, but I could be wrong. But I doubt China is doing its absolute most to eliminate every drug threat in the country, else this guy would've never even had the opportunity to smuggle. I will admit to not being a scholar on the subject, but I thought you were above namecalling, StorkHwaiting. We used to agree so much in other threads. ): | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 01 2010 13:15 n.DieJokes wrote: Wait, can we get back to the fact that they sentence a man to death for drug trafficking. That's insane, how is there even a discussion going on, they sentenced a man to [u]death[/u for drug trafficking! And this guy was an international citizen with questionable mental status but they just couldn't refrain from giving the motherfucking death penalty... for drug trafficking. I'm going to keep repeating that because if that doesn't alarm your sensibilities you don't understand the value of human. Heroin is bad, no disagreements here, but any argument where selling it should be punished by death is unbelievably flawed Arguing against the death penalty in general is arguing against the Death Penalty for drug trafficking just as a matter of course. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 01 2010 13:10 StorkHwaiting wrote: Um how exactly does economics equate to genocide? Won't have much tax revenue if you kill off all your citizens. Also, China has done mass executions of drug dealers. Hence why there are not large "drug trafficking areas" in China like you see in SE Asia, C. and S. America, Middle East, etc. Have you done any reading on the drug war in China? You sound like a ninny when talking about the subject. More specifically about the drug problem in China, you're out of your mind if you think China doesn't have a drug trafficking problem -- and not because it's a bad country or anything, but from a pure locational standpoint. It's one of the prime producers in drug ingredients, as well as sharing a close relation to Burma and practically every Pacific Rim country imaginable, all which are deeply ingrained in the world-wide drug ring. It also doesn't help that China is in close relation to the most drug affected countries in the world, ala the Middle East with Afghanistan, etc. Maybe China does go on raids, but I doubt they're dedicating the resources they have available to stopping the problem, elsewise they'd be invading every country that shares a border with them not named Russia. It doesn't help that as the years go on, drug seizure levels have dropped in China (though info is sparse as China is a bit reclusive about this info and would obviously heavily propagandize it within its own media) because their large raids have become less and less effectives as drug traffickers have become more savvy and started using children, women, and the uneducated to split large shipments into countless smaller measures. China is a asian drug hotspot. Why? Because China is a hotspot for EVERYTHING in Asia because it's such a large, influential country. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
On January 01 2010 13:15 n.DieJokes wrote: Wait, can we get back to the fact that they sentence a man to death for drug trafficking. That's insane, how is there even a discussion going on, they sentenced a man to [u]death[/u for drug trafficking! And this guy was an international citizen with questionable mental status but they just couldn't refrain from giving the motherfucking death penalty... for drug trafficking. I'm going to keep repeating that because if that doesn't alarm your sensibilities you don't understand the value of human. Heroin is bad, no disagreements here, but any argument where selling it should be punished by death is unbelievably flawed What kind of drug lord would trust 4kg of heroin to someone mentally ill? seriously. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 01 2010 13:25 BalliSLife wrote: What kind of drug lord would trust 4kg of heroin to someone mentally ill? seriously. Using the dumb, young, and ill is the primary strategy for trafficking drugs in countries that deal with drug raids in a highly militaristic sense, actually. Lots of small shipments on the backs of people who don't know better. | ||
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Draconizard
628 Posts
On January 01 2010 13:15 n.DieJokes wrote: Wait, can we get back to the fact that they sentence a man to death for drug trafficking. That's insane, how is there even a discussion going on, they sentenced a man to [u]death[/u for drug trafficking! And this guy was an international citizen with questionable mental status but they just couldn't refrain from giving the motherfucking death penalty... for drug trafficking. I'm going to keep repeating that because if that doesn't alarm your sensibilities you don't understand the value of human. Heroin is bad, no disagreements here, but any argument where selling it should be punished by death is unbelievably flawed And what precisely is the "value of human [sic]"? Who or what defines such value? | ||
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