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On September 10 2009 14:46 BalliSLife wrote:
So alizee you prefer a president that's a good speaker or one that uses a phrase like "misunderestimated me"?
Let me be very clear. As I've said countless numbers of times, the two party system is a self destructive system. It pits one side against the other. In relation to health care, republicans want to keep it as it is to appease big medical corporations and the american medical association, the democrats want to force a bill in that isn't even streamlined, they just want something passed, irregardless of cost or benefit.
That being said and repeated since you apparently didn't read before, I don't like Obama, I didn't like Bush, I do NOT choose the lesser of two evils. You, like so many others, fall into the left vs right battle that gains zero ground. Cheerleading works wonders in times of prosperity, right now we need solutions.
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i just love listening to obama. Sometimes i just chill at home and listen to his speeches, like now.
Over here we don't care much about your healthcare system but some of the shouts / comments all over the web/media from U.S. posters make me feel like some of you people live on a completely different planet.
Your system and some of the people in it make it really hard to take you seriously.
But its your own war....and our entertainment.
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On September 10 2009 23:00 ghermination wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2009 22:22 NExUS1g wrote:
Had the FBI and CIA done their jobs properly, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. They knew the terrorists were in the country. They lost track of them. Did you know the pilots actually had licenses and addresses in their own names. They also took flying lessons in their own names. If our FBI and CIA cannot find people like this, then I suggest we give up now, grow beards and take up extremist Islam. 9/11 was definitely an error on the side of the FBI and CIA, but because a dedicated extremist organization succeeds in performing a terrorist act - something rather easy considering how easy it is to move within the international community these days - how does that necessitate our conversion to Islam? I doubt the most dedicated, highly trained and numerous team of even domestic terrorists (lol evangelicals?) could convert roughly 300 million people.
Osama will spare people who take up Islam and grow a beard. He's said that in at least one of his videos.
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Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down.
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On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down.
The problem is us, not the government. The government only does what we allow it to.
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On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down.
You guys need a good revolution. That would really help.
The current system is so damn corrupt that there's no way someone like Obama could get anything done. Yes, he's charismatic, yes, many treat him as the second coming of Christ, but American politics are so deep in the gutter that he has no real power.
It's a real fucking mess, and most people just don't give a shit.
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On September 11 2009 03:21 NExUS1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down. The problem is us, not the government. The government only does what we allow it to.
The government can do what it wants because the people will blindly support it. For everyone aware of the problems that are around, there are ten ignorant red state conservatives who vote Republican every time because everyone around them always has. It's the same people who claim that every other country in the world is socialist.
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saw it in russian news
they say that it's definately a good idea, but too expensive for the government
and 52% of population are against this reform
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"The people" is not a single entity with independent, coherent thoughts. The US is large and complex.
Take health care: if you have (decent) insurance you're golden and much better taken care of than in other countries; if you do not have insurance, as some 47m people now do not, you are in a much weaker position. It is worth remembering costs and who pays taxes (usually the group who does have health insurance) vs. who votes (everyone).
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Too bad single payer still is politically impossible(i.e. the insurance and pharmaceutical companies don't want it) to push through Congress and the Senate. I'm at least glad that the public option is still in the bill. Without it this wouldn't be much of a reform.
I don't know why I care since it doesn't affect me in any way. I guess I just feel sorry for you guys and hope you can get a working public health care system like the rest of the industrialized world.
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I was quite saddened to see all the blind and ignorant support of this speech, and the health care bill at the start of the thread. Thankfully, some voices of reason stepped in. Neither Democrats or Republicans are talking about even a quarter of the things that are in the bill that should be discussed. No politician or news agency is actually telling you to read what is in the bill, they're just trading "THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG" barbs.
If you were impressed by the speech, you don't have any clue what is really going on, and you're an ignorant victim of partisan politics.
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On September 10 2009 15:09 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2009 15:04 IHurtMyBackHo wrote:On September 10 2009 14:52 gchan wrote:On September 10 2009 14:43 IHurtMyBackHo wrote:On September 10 2009 14:39 Jibba wrote:On September 10 2009 14:30 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On September 10 2009 14:25 Jibba wrote:He expects it because he's the President. Whether he's republican or democrat, he can stand up there and do the hamster dance and he's going to get applause. Yes, both can expect applause from their side of the aisle, and that the opposition will keep quiet. However, you can't forget that bush was openly booed and cajolted during his speeches. You can't say that changing the rules will only be applied when you're wearing one color of underwear and not the other. The rules don't change. The democrats who booed Bush's State of the Union were out of line, and also comprised one of the worst Congresses in history, so they shared much of the blame. Part of the issue I have with this is no one was rushing to call them immature back then because they hated Bush. If you're going to call people immature at least be fair. Fairness hasn't mattered in mainstream journalism and media in the last 30 years. I probably shouldn't have used the word "fair". I should have said it's incredibly hypocritical. I like using the word "bad" because you can go badbadbadbadbadbadbad. Let me summarize the 3 cable stations for you. MSNBC: BEST SPEECH EVER MADE. SUCK IT, PERICLES. Fox: Hitler reborn. CNN: We now to go Twitter to let you know what YOU think about what the President was wearing.
Looks like someone watches Jon Stewart ^^
It's really hard to debate the health care bill because there are thousands of pages to go through in the drafts and no one has read them all. But when people come into town hall meetings with pictures of Obama defaced with Hitler's mustache, or people telling Congressmen to "keep their government hands out of my Medicare" (lololol), it's hard to get a good discourse going. Of course, I won't blindly follow Obama just because I share many of his views, but truthfully, I don't have that much impact on what the politicians are going to do. People only have power as blocs, not as individuals.
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On September 10 2009 16:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2009 16:33 gchan wrote: Until then, I don't want to see shit passed through Congress based on momentum (Iraq War, ahem). The Iraq War is an example of it working out poorly, but there's other stuff like the GI Bill that have turned out better. Unfortunately, momentum is how it usually works in America, and it's likely been that way for 100+ years.
Bill Clinton did not sign Welfare Reform because he had momentum. He lost all his momentum earlier that year on health care. But he actually supported a REAL bipartisan effort to reform the system and it was a good plan (not perfect, but good).
That bill passed because it was simply a good idea and because it was good, it gained support from reasonable people from both parties.
I do not see that kind of of behavior coming from Obama on health care. You may get lucky and pass a good bill on momentum alone but generally speaking good bills are more likely to be passed because they were good on their own merits and attract enough reasonable people from both sides of the aisle.
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On September 10 2009 16:56 Velr wrote:
Uhm... Just a probably retarded question:
Why is it Obama's fault when he can't pull thru with his Health Care Bill because the people you also voted don't allow it to happen.
Pls enlighten me.
Because Obama is the leader of the democratic party which holds both houses of congress, has a philibuster proof majority in the senate, and the Presidency. So if he can't pass a bill, that is a pretty good indicator that there may be some pretty big flaws in it.
I guess you could say the failure wouldn't be in not passing the bill but in not being able to come up with a good bill in the first place.
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On September 11 2009 03:21 NExUS1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down. The problem is us, not the government. The government only does what we allow it to.
But the problem is, what would we do?
I don't think enough people understand what's going on to make an effective riot.
Would we have a revolution? That's a really hard word to throw around these days...
Please, offer solutions.
Please, prove that government isn't corrupt and it's still a happy world. I want to hear responses.
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On September 11 2009 04:43 Savio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2009 16:56 Velr wrote:
Uhm... Just a probably retarded question:
Why is it Obama's fault when he can't pull thru with his Health Care Bill because the people you also voted don't allow it to happen.
Pls enlighten me. Because Obama is the leader of the democratic party which holds both houses of congress, has a philibuster proof majority in the senate, and the Presidency. So if he can't pass a bill, that is a pretty good indicator that there may be some pretty big flaws in it. I guess you could say the failure wouldn't be in not passing the bill but in not being able to come up with a good bill in the first place.
It's not his fault persay, but he just happens to be the leader of the party in power, so he takes all the credit or the blame, whether or not he deserves it. For example, people like Bill Clinton partly because of the economic boom that happened during his presidency, but truthfully, he had little, if anything to do with it.
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On September 11 2009 04:03 Vedic wrote:
I was quite saddened to see all the blind and ignorant support of this speech, and the health care bill at the start of the thread. Thankfully, some voices of reason stepped in. Neither Democrats or Republicans are talking about even a quarter of the things that are in the bill that should be discussed. No politician or news agency is actually telling you to read what is in the bill, they're just trading "THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG" barbs.
If you were impressed by the speech, you don't have any clue what is really going on, and you're an ignorant victim of partisan politics.
oh bastion of insight and knowledge, free us from our chains of partisan politics and guide us with your inimitable reason!
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On September 11 2009 04:47 gumbum8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2009 03:21 NExUS1g wrote:On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down. The problem is us, not the government. The government only does what we allow it to. But the problem is, what would we do? I don't think enough people understand what's going on to make an effective riot. Would we have a revolution? That's a really hard word to throw around these days... Please, offer solutions. Please, prove that government isn't corrupt and it's still a happy world. I want to hear responses.
The government is only corrupt because the people are corrupt.
People won't vote for anyone who tells them the actual compromises that need to be made. (California... in the last recall election.... when we were dealing with a deficit
one candidate said Raise Taxes
one said Cut Services
one said eliminate the "Waste"
guess who got elected.. the one who either didn't understand, or didn't want to tell people, that every bit of government "waste" is an important service to someone.
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Fantastic speech.
I thought he was very clear and concise about the problems and what he wanted to do.
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On September 11 2009 05:04 Krikkitone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2009 04:47 gumbum8 wrote:On September 11 2009 03:21 NExUS1g wrote:On September 11 2009 03:16 gumbum8 wrote:
Fuck Capitalism.
This country is burning to the ground under our feet.
We need to get our fucking shit straight.
Obama can't do it. We have to wait on those old people in that damn building to say, "sure, lets tax me a little more! Lets take a little bit out of my fortune! Lets stop these wars that don't affect MY daily life!"
sorry but I get the post-jitters in politics. If what I said offends somebody, I'll probably just edit out my post later after I calm down. The problem is us, not the government. The government only does what we allow it to. But the problem is, what would we do? I don't think enough people understand what's going on to make an effective riot. Would we have a revolution? That's a really hard word to throw around these days... Please, offer solutions. Please, prove that government isn't corrupt and it's still a happy world. I want to hear responses. The government is only corrupt because the people are corrupt. People won't vote for anyone who tells them the actual compromises that need to be made. (California... in the last recall election.... when we were dealing with a deficit one candidate said Raise Taxes one said Cut Services one said eliminate the "Waste" guess who got elected.. the one who either didn't understand, or didn't want to tell people, that every bit of government "waste" is an important service to someone.
This is an excellent post and summary of the problems with democracy. People are too busy to research the issues that governments face, so they end up either voting along party lines out of habit, voting based on key issues that don't really matter much to the success of the country (ie. gay marriage), or voting based on promises to not raise taxes or cut services.
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EPT
