EPTRon Artest to the Lakers. I guess Ariza isn't staying, there were interests from the Cavs and he might be moving
NBA Offseason Thread 2009 - Page 26
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
Ron Artest to the Lakers. I guess Ariza isn't staying, there were interests from the Cavs and he might be moving | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 03 2009 09:50 Servolisk wrote:I don't think Bosh is a top 5 big man. I put these over him, and probably others in the near future :O Duncan Garnett Howard Shaq Stoudemire Gasol Bynum (pre-injury) Boozer Aldridge (too bad Toronto too Bargnani over him, lol...) Yao (pre-potential career endinging injury...) Dirk David West (maybe) Al Jefferson And if you take into account the disproportionate damage Bosh will do to cap space there are a whole lot more I would prefer to have. As for BG compared to Bosh, basically I more meant to say I don't think Bosh has proven anything yet. But based on playoff performances, I think BG is ahead of him. Shaq is MUCH older, can only be played limited minutes and thus can only be used as a role player at this point in his career, and unable to guard the pick&roll (which is a very common tactic used by teams in the NBA) Amare cannot create offense for himself and is thus very reliant upon having another star who can set him up and has very questionable defense; it also remains to be seen how well his knees will hold up after those surgeries and how his eye injuries affect him next season Bynum still needs to return to his pre-injury form before we can really rank him but I'm on the boat that hopes he does; he's only shown flashes of being better than Bosh so far and has proven less since he's had very minimal impact in playoff games Boozer is an undersized, less-defense, less-athletic, selfish version of Bosh Aldridge has proven even less than Bosh, and it's not even close, but he does have Bosh-like potential Yao cannot be on the board because of how bad his injury looks right now West is like Boozer except a little better on defense but injury-prone (even when he doesnt miss games, he's usually limited by some lingering injury) Al Jeff is on a team worse than the Raptors and has never made it to the playoffs (his 7 games with BOS don't count); statistically they're on par with each other, but Jefferson hasn't shown any ability to defend Bosh's versatility puts him above a lot of other quality bigs. His experience and accomplishments with Team USA and as the best player on the Raptors puts him ahead of many of those you listed because he's "proven" more. The bottom line is that the list of PF/C's in the NBA that produce like he does is a VERY short one, and the hype and credit they're giving him is justified and was earned, for the most part. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
People have taken Gordon's performance in the CHI-BOS wayyy out of proportion. He hasn't "proven" anything in his career except that he's a great shooter who isn't afraid to take big shots. That sounds more like a role player than a building block worthy of a $55M contract. Until he can show some semblance of leadership ability (which, btw, Bosh has demonstrated already) or some ability and/or willingness to do more than just score the ball, he's not anything more than a gifted scorer and certainly no Allstar. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
did I just go to sleep and wake up to see a "bosh is not better than ben fucking gordon" post? what the holy fuck? | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
On July 03 2009 10:51 tonight wrote: jesus christ LA just got so much better it's sickening Kobe will teach Artest how to play team basketball, muhahahahaha. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 03 2009 08:35 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Just look at the evidence and what you're conceding. You're acknowledging that Bosh is a top 5 center and comparable to Pau, yet somehow arguing that he's not at a whole other level from Gordon? Is Gordon a top 5 anything? Is he a top 10 anything? A top 25 anything? The ONLY thing he does is score the ball, and he's not even better than Bosh at doing that. I didn't say Gordon was a top 5 anything. What I'm saying is that Bosh is not a superstar (he's very, very good though) but he's going to going to get a max contract from someone and I don't know that he's worth that money. He's not such a sure thing to improve your team that it's worth taking the chance that he doesn't choose one of the other max contracts he'll be offered. The Pistons have never been about grabbing the best-in-position FAs like most other teams. The organization builds it up through 2nd/3rd tier FAs and draft picks which they can move around more easily. It wouldn't surprise me if the Pistons have 0 all stars over the next two years, but I don't know that they'll be a worse team because of it. It's not like I haven't been clamoring for the Pistons to get Bosh for the past 3 NBA threads, but I don't think it would've happened so this was the smarter decision. We probably won't know for 2-3 years though. I just hope they don't go for Boozer, instead. Injury history I can live with, but what he's doing to Utah after what he did to the Cavs is just sleazy. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
v_v You have to be out of your mind to say that lol. | ||
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4303862 | ||
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tenbagger
United States1289 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On July 03 2009 11:09 Jibba wrote: I didn't say Gordon was a top 5 anything. What I'm saying is that Bosh is not a superstar (he's very, very good though) but he's going to going to get a max contract from someone and I don't know that he's worth that money. He's not such a sure thing to improve your team that it's worth taking the chance that he doesn't choose one of the other max contracts he'll be offered. whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat!? you're kidding right? :/ In the Eastern Conference the only person more valuable than Chris Bosh overall is Dwight Howard and that's solely because of his defense and the system he plays in. For the league overall there are very few players anyone would pick over Bosh: Duncan Nowitzki (arguable) Shaq Aldridge (arguable) Garnett Gasol Howard Anyone else we'd add to this list? Read about the scouting reports on this guy and see after Lebron James every team with $$ was salivating on this dude so badly. He can play both PF/C, play defense and shoot really well. The only thing I can recall him suffering from is bad decision making, which playing on a Toronto team when Calderon was hurt is understandable sicne he had to do so much. | ||
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tenbagger
United States1289 Posts
On July 03 2009 11:09 Jibba wrote: I didn't say Gordon was a top 5 anything. What I'm saying is that Bosh is not a superstar (he's very, very good though) but he's going to going to get a max contract from someone and I don't know that he's worth that money. He's not such a sure thing to improve your team that it's worth taking the chance that he doesn't choose one of the other max contracts he'll be offered. The Pistons have never been about grabbing the best-in-position FAs like most other teams. The organization builds it up through 2nd/3rd tier FAs and draft picks which they can move around more easily. It wouldn't surprise me if the Pistons have 0 all stars over the next two years, but I don't know that they'll be a worse team because of it. It's not like I haven't been clamoring for the Pistons to get Bosh for the past 3 NBA threads, but I don't think it would've happened so this was the smarter decision. We probably won't know for 2-3 years though. I just hope they don't go for Boozer, instead. Injury history I can live with, but what he's doing to Utah after what he did to the Cavs is just sleazy. if ben gordon is worth anything close to 11 mil a year, Bosh is easily worth 13 and change. In fact, even if gordon is worth 7 mil a year, Bosh would be worth 13 and change. If you look at the type of players making around 10 mil a year, it becomes clear that Bosh, a top 5 big is easily worth the max. | ||
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tenbagger
United States1289 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@Jibba: But you did say Bosh is not a superstar when he clearly is  | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 03 2009 11:25 tenbagger wrote: I'll take Gordon at 7 (already agreed that 11 is too much) but what makes you think Bosh is going to get 13? His next contract is going to be above 17.if ben gordon is worth anything close to 11 mil a year, Bosh is easily worth 13 and change. In fact, even if gordon is worth 7 mil a year, Bosh would be worth 13 and change. If you look at the type of players making around 10 mil a year, it becomes clear that Bosh, a top 5 big is easily worth the max. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 03 2009 11:29 Ace wrote: @Jibba: But you did say Bosh is not a superstar when he clearly is I say it because the Raptors have been especially atrocious in all but 1 of his years there and when you look at their rosters it just doesn't support it. Do teams with superstars go 27-55 in the East when your #2 is playing out of his mind and they've got the kind of role players the Raptors did? Even when Calderon got healthy, they were bad. It's not even fathomable that a team with a "dominating big" and the PGs they've had would be a bottom feeder in the East. Even in the West, you expect superstar big + good PG = playoffs. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On July 03 2009 11:50 Jibba wrote: I say it because the Raptors have been especially atrocious in all but 1 of his years there and when you look at their rosters it just doesn't support it. Do teams with superstars go 27-55 in the East when your #2 is playing out of his mind and they've got the kind of role players the Raptors did? Even when Calderon got healthy, they were bad. It's not even fathomable that a team with a "dominating big" and the PGs they've had would be a bottom feeder in the East. Even in the West, you expect superstar big + good PG = playoffs. It happens. Would you say the years that Ray Allen spent in Seattle bottom feeding make him an illegitimate superstar? Garnett in Sota? Pierce in 06? How about Carmelo's early years? Point is sometimes your team is so bad that you just can't make the playoffs. There ARE superstar level players on shit teams that won't make it. What role players did the Raptors have that were really that good? enlighten me please. Who was playing out of their mind in Toronto? | ||
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