It's that time of the year again. Melee is back at EVO in Las Vegas, this time at Bally's/Paris Las Vegas Casino! Will Mang0 clutch a historical three-peat? Will Leffen put down the Gods once more in potentially the biggest tournament of the year? Or will PPMD come out of hibernation and once again take another major trophy? First place will take home over $11K and the title of the world's greatest. The others will have to wait until next year for the prestigious title.
The action begins this Friday at 8:00am PDT! Don't miss out!
Before I spiel on my Fantasy picks, question regarding schedule: why does it say Quarters is on Friday and Top-32 is on Saturday? Does Quarters refer to pool bracket quarters? THE ANSWER IS YES.
M'boy Axe got me in to the game, and generally places well. Only safer pick at his price is Westballz, but I gotta back my boy.
Shroomed has been consistent for years, but lately he's been showing that with a top-tier character, he's only going up. Say what you will about the GOAT's form, the fact is he slept on DaJuan, and now Shroomed has a foot on the peak of Olympus.
Gotta rep that NorthWest pride. Not only is Silent Wolf a solid fox, he's one of our local heroes. He might not be from BC, but he's showed-up to our tournaments plenty enough, so a hero who's a hop-skip across the border I guess ain't all bad.
PewPewU... you know, I wasn't impressed with his recent showings, nay-saying all the people claiming he'd be a top placer at this year's nationals. Was I wrong? Nope. With school over, though, he's begun showing his top form again, and I'm looking forward to a top-13 placement easily. Top-8? Very probably.
Speaking of top form, Plup has been routinely impressed this year. He's long been a consistent high-placer, but with a new top-tier character under his belt a la Shroomed, he as well has been threatening Mount Olympus.
And again, on the Sheiks with "top form" -- well, uh, here's one without it. Just kidding! While KirbyKaze has shown fairly lackluster results over the last year, this Spring he started travelling a bit more to show us, "hey, I'm still here, and I'm not done yet." I believe we're going to see the David MacDonald of "olde" at EVO, so I gotta put some faith in my Canadian representative.
On representatives of olde, we have HugS, who's shown us in the last year not to sleep on the vets. He's been showing upper bracket places time and again at major tournaments, and while he is slotted to one character, he pushes past adversity regardless. At $130, I think the Upper Echelon Gatekeeper is a fantastic pick-up.
My original $70 pick was n0ne. I realized, though, that he hasn't shown quite as good a recent performance as Smash's own Thought-Hammer Tafokints. Tafo is such a likable guy that, with his recent showings, it's hard not to give him my vote. I realize that he might not place as well with literally every Smasher save the kitchen sink (M2K) competing, so think of this as my passion pick outside Axe (who's honestly just a good pick anyway.)
Ok, here's the real steal: Toph at $40. Toph. At $40?? WH-... WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THESE PRICES? WHO DID THIS? ARE THESE PRICES JUST RIPPED FROM LAST YEAR'S EV- actually I think these prices are just taken from last year's EVO. Seriously, though, $40 for a man who never not gets Top-32, and generally gets higher? Sold.
At $20, Flow I feel is a steal. While it's not guaranteed, I think it's a good bet he'll make the big bracket, and at the very least will hit top-50. Time will tell, but I have faith.
At $10 we have PC Chris...
... And LovageFat Goku. $10. PC Chris. Fat Goku. Like, how could you not? (Lovage had a tough bracket; changed to Fat Goku.)
I had Wobbles at a "steal," too -- but then I found-out he's going only Mario in this tournament. You have faith in his Mario? I ruminated over the idea for a while, but in the end it turned-out that I did not, in fact, have faith.
Otherwise, I personally went for as many Top-13 contenders as I could, whereas you only really have two guaranteed. I feel the rest of my line-up, while not guaranteed, have a good chance of hitting Top-32 as well, even in the lower-priced range.
Before I spiel on my Fantasy picks, question regarding schedule: why does it say Quarters is on Friday and Top-32 is on Saturday? Does Quarters refer to pool bracket quarters?
M'boy Axe got me in to the game, and generally places well. Only safer pick at his price is Westballz, but I gotta back my boy.
Shroomed has been consistent for years, but lately he's been showing that with a top-tier character, he's only going up. Say what you will about the GOAT's form, the fact is he slept on DaJuan, and now Shroomed has a foot on the peak of Olympus.
Gotta rep that NorthWest pride. Not only is Silent Wolf a solid fox, he's one of our local heroes. He might not be from BC, but he's showed-up to our tournaments plenty enough, so a hero who's a hop-skip across the border I guess ain't all bad.
PewPewU... you know, I wasn't impressed with his recent showings, nay-saying all the people claiming he'd be a top placer at this year's nationals. Was I wrong? Nope. With school over, though, he's begun showing his top form again, and I'm looking forward to a top-13 placement easily. Top-8? Very probably.
Speaking of top form, Plup has been routinely impressed this year. He's long been a consistent high-placer, but with a new top-tier character under his belt a la Shroomed, he as well has been threatening Mount Olympus.
And again, on the Sheiks with "top form" -- well, uh, here's one without it. Just kidding! While KirbyKaze has shown fairly lackluster results over the last year, this Spring he started travelling a bit more to show us, "hey, I'm still here, and I'm not done yet." I believe we're going to see the David MacDonald of "olde" at EVO, so I gotta put some faith in my Canadian representative.
On representatives of olde, we have HugS, who's shown us in the last year not to sleep on the vets. He's been showing upper bracket places time and again at major tournaments, and while he is slotted to one character, he pushes past adversity regardless. At $130, I think the Upper Echelon Gatekeeper is a fantastic pick-up.
My original $70 pick was n0ne. I realized, though, that he hasn't shown quite as good a recent performance as Smash's own Thought-Hammer Tafokints. Tafo is such a likable guy that, with his recent showings, it's hard not to give him my vote. I realize that he might not place as well with literally every Smasher save the kitchen sink (M2K) competing, so think of this as my passion pick outside Axe (who's honestly just a good pick anyway.)
Ok, here's the real steal: Toph at $40. Toph. At $40?? WH-... WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THESE PRICES? WHO DID THIS? ARE THESE PRICES JUST RIPPED FROM LAST YEAR'S EV- actually I think these prices are just taken from last year's EVO. Seriously, though, $40 for a man who never not gets Top-32, and generally gets higher? Sold.
At $20, Flow I feel is a steal. While it's not guaranteed, I think it's a good bet he'll make the big bracket, and at the very least will hit top-50. Time will tell, but I have faith.
At $10 we have PC Chris...
... And LovageFat Goku. $10. PC Chris. Fat Goku. Like, how could you not? (Lovage had a tough bracket; changed to Fat Goku.)
I had Wobbles at a "steal," too -- but then I found-out he's going only Mario in this tournament. You have faith in his Mario? I ruminated over the idea for a while, but in the end it turned-out that I did not, in fact, have faith.
Otherwise, I personally went for as many Top-13 contenders as I could, whereas you only really have two guaranteed. I feel the rest of my line-up, while not guaranteed, have a good chance of hitting Top-32 as well, even in the lower-priced range.
TL's own 343 is a $10 passion pick. KK is a risky pick I feel- he has a bracket with a shit ton of sheik, and he's one of those no chain grab in the ditto dudes, so if someone doesn't agree to go for the tech chase, an upset could happen. (Especially because so much volatility in the ditto when chain grabs are present
Before I spiel on my Fantasy picks, question regarding schedule: why does it say Quarters is on Friday and Top-32 is on Saturday? Does Quarters refer to pool bracket quarters?
M'boy Axe got me in to the game, and generally places well. Only safer pick at his price is Westballz, but I gotta back my boy.
Shroomed has been consistent for years, but lately he's been showing that with a top-tier character, he's only going up. Say what you will about the GOAT's form, the fact is he slept on DaJuan, and now Shroomed has a foot on the peak of Olympus.
Gotta rep that NorthWest pride. Not only is Silent Wolf a solid fox, he's one of our local heroes. He might not be from BC, but he's showed-up to our tournaments plenty enough, so a hero who's a hop-skip across the border I guess ain't all bad.
PewPewU... you know, I wasn't impressed with his recent showings, nay-saying all the people claiming he'd be a top placer at this year's nationals. Was I wrong? Nope. With school over, though, he's begun showing his top form again, and I'm looking forward to a top-13 placement easily. Top-8? Very probably.
Speaking of top form, Plup has been routinely impressed this year. He's long been a consistent high-placer, but with a new top-tier character under his belt a la Shroomed, he as well has been threatening Mount Olympus.
And again, on the Sheiks with "top form" -- well, uh, here's one without it. Just kidding! While KirbyKaze has shown fairly lackluster results over the last year, this Spring he started travelling a bit more to show us, "hey, I'm still here, and I'm not done yet." I believe we're going to see the David MacDonald of "olde" at EVO, so I gotta put some faith in my Canadian representative.
On representatives of olde, we have HugS, who's shown us in the last year not to sleep on the vets. He's been showing upper bracket places time and again at major tournaments, and while he is slotted to one character, he pushes past adversity regardless. At $130, I think the Upper Echelon Gatekeeper is a fantastic pick-up.
My original $70 pick was n0ne. I realized, though, that he hasn't shown quite as good a recent performance as Smash's own Thought-Hammer Tafokints. Tafo is such a likable guy that, with his recent showings, it's hard not to give him my vote. I realize that he might not place as well with literally every Smasher save the kitchen sink (M2K) competing, so think of this as my passion pick outside Axe (who's honestly just a good pick anyway.)
Ok, here's the real steal: Toph at $40. Toph. At $40?? WH-... WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THESE PRICES? WHO DID THIS? ARE THESE PRICES JUST RIPPED FROM LAST YEAR'S EV- actually I think these prices are just taken from last year's EVO. Seriously, though, $40 for a man who never not gets Top-32, and generally gets higher? Sold.
At $20, Flow I feel is a steal. While it's not guaranteed, I think it's a good bet he'll make the big bracket, and at the very least will hit top-50. Time will tell, but I have faith.
At $10 we have PC Chris...
... And LovageFat Goku. $10. PC Chris. Fat Goku. Like, how could you not? (Lovage had a tough bracket; changed to Fat Goku.)
I had Wobbles at a "steal," too -- but then I found-out he's going only Mario in this tournament. You have faith in his Mario? I ruminated over the idea for a while, but in the end it turned-out that I did not, in fact, have faith.
Otherwise, I personally went for as many Top-13 contenders as I could, whereas you only really have two guaranteed. I feel the rest of my line-up, while not guaranteed, have a good chance of hitting Top-32 as well, even in the lower-priced range.
TL's own 343 is a $10 passion pick. KK is a risky pick I feel- he has a bracket with a shit ton of sheik, and he's one of those no chain grab in the ditto dudes, so if someone doesn't agree to go for the tech chase, an upset could happen. (Especially because so much volatility in the ditto when chain grabs are present
Yeah, on review of the pools brackets I kinda came to the same conclusion. Tough bracket for him, and tough bracket for me as a decent number of my picks lead to the same quarters. What bracket is 343 in - do you know?
Smash 4 stream does not have submode on, but Melee does. I understand that some people don't care for Twitch chat, but it generates a ton of hype and would be a huge mistake on EVOs part. And stream down for anyone else?
On July 18 2015 01:19 Cedstick wrote: I missed the Tafo game. Who won?
Twitch acted up (like always) but Tafo was about to win 2-0.
Ah, good to hear. Tafo went Fox against Sheik right?
Stream shitting the bed for the Azen games, but he's up 1-0. Fortefreak is really good, and started really strong, so I'm surprised at Azen's resilience despite his lackluster showing since his return.
Anyone know why a lot of teams have -25 points on the fantasy draft? Randomly pieced together a team without really looking at the brackets, and it looks like I'm already losing :p
On July 18 2015 02:20 Just_a_Moth wrote: On the Evo schedule when it says "Finals" does that mean they doing just the Grand Final at that time, or Winners losers and Grand Finals?
Top 8 Finals if I'm not mistaken. "Semi-Finals" for instance doesn't mean what it normally does.
On July 18 2015 02:06 iaeuy wrote: Anyone know why a lot of teams have -25 points on the fantasy draft? Randomly pieced together a team without really looking at the brackets, and it looks like I'm already losing :p
Yeah, a lot of people have the +25 for Twitter, my question was why a lot of people have -25 team points for some reason (e.g. on my page I have the +25 for Twitter and -25 Team points, giving me 0 overall. Seems many other teams also have this)
On July 18 2015 02:20 Just_a_Moth wrote: On the Evo schedule when it says "Finals" does that mean they doing just the Grand Final at that time, or Winners losers and Grand Finals?
Top 8 Finals if I'm not mistaken. "Semi-Finals" for instance doesn't mean what it normally does.
Oh that's even better, just grand finals would have been so un-hype lol.
On July 18 2015 02:20 Just_a_Moth wrote: On the Evo schedule when it says "Finals" does that mean they doing just the Grand Final at that time, or Winners losers and Grand Finals?
Top 8 Finals if I'm not mistaken. "Semi-Finals" for instance doesn't mean what it normally does.
Oh that's even better, just grand finals would have been so un-hype lol.
Well, the Finals wouldn't last 2-3 hours then, with just three matches...except for Smash U probably.
Can't remember when I would have ever watched a high level Mario vs Yoshi match, and for it to be with a Mario that actually knows the Yoshi matchup, that was quite a treat see.
On July 18 2015 15:46 GTR wrote: don't think anyone in the world expected ken to make top 16 winners.
You mean top 32, winners'
dont think hes top 32 world but he sure was looking decent at mayhem
old school is really turning up. Azen beat fly, Ken top 32 winners + beat westballz, chu's still alive in losers (playing laudandus, who he already beat, along with KK and swedish delight), and so is darkrain, who knocked out wizzrobe.
How come the prizepool is so low? The winner in Melee only gets 11k. Isn't EVO the largest and prestigious fighting game Tournament? I bet if someone like ESL or MLG came in with a 100k prize pool pot they could overtake EVO in prestige and viewership.
On July 18 2015 18:27 ptbl wrote: How come the prizepool is so low? The winner in Melee only gets 11k. Isn't EVO the largest and prestigious fighting game Tournament? I bet if someone like ESL or MLG came in with a 100k prize pool pot they could overtake EVO in prestige and viewership.
First, if you're coming from other games, melee and fgc prize pools are generally smaller. And the Evo prize pool is especially weak. It's based in a formula dealing with registration fees and entry numbers. Many games get their prize pool supplemented by their publishers, who see Evo as an opportunity to promote their product to the community of their consumers. But Nintendo is historically way behind on the esports train. The tournament is really more about the prestige, now, than the prize money.
This thread has got to be the best thing I've ever seen.
Nothing quite like an enormous dose of entitlement to brighten up my day lmfao
The people that complain kill me, when smash isn't at evo next year because there aren't enough subs or viewers because it was run at a loss. They are killing their own game holding an event isn't cheap, internet isn't free.
On July 18 2015 18:27 ptbl wrote: How come the prizepool is so low? The winner in Melee only gets 11k. Isn't EVO the largest and prestigious fighting game Tournament? I bet if someone like ESL or MLG came in with a 100k prize pool pot they could overtake EVO in prestige and viewership.
Because fgc tourneys are traditionally run by and for players, and the players don't have that much money. Could it be different? Maybe.
remember how MLG came back with melee last year at anaheim? sure there was a lot of money but a lot of players complained about how the tournament was ran so MLG decided not to go back to it.
Honestly it sucks that MLG turned out that way. It was a pretty hype event with a lot of good matches and decent prize pool but it had a lot of issues.
Basically Melee was run by a few passionate people at MLG but they were pretty understaffed and it seemed like they didn't have a ton of support. Therefore the tournament wasn't run all that well and was way behind. I'm pretty sure they were also short on setups.
The other problem was that MLG likes their seeded pools + open bracket format and didn't stream a single open bracket game, only pools, so we missed a shit ton of games. This was also a huge complaint for SC2 as tons of talented players who came all the way from Korea didn't get on stream once, all this while MLG was practically setting records for downtime between matches
So yeah MLG Anaheim was pretty bad but it does suck that because THEY ran a bad event they decided to drop Melee and SC2 and just do COD or w/e
Well, the game is terribly slow, so that's not surprising. Today is pretty boring anyway, I'm only waiting for Melee. It's a shame there is no Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur or some older version of Guilty Gear. At least there are still some side tournaments like King of Fighters or SFII.
On July 18 2015 20:47 GTR wrote: remember how MLG came back with melee last year at anaheim? sure there was a lot of money but a lot of players complained about how the tournament was ran so MLG decided not to go back to it.
They had an insane amount of hype matches though, because of the top level group stages. I still dream of a tournament that would do that again, but it kind of conflicts with the typical grassroots tournament model. You need big sponsors to make up for the lack of tournament entries to fund the prize pool. On the other hand, you get a lot more high quality video footage you can monetize.
I think MLG didn't approach it wrong, they had a pretty strong concept that they just executed badly.
Its not that much drama. IDK who hbox is messaging since im a smash noob but its not that much drama. If hes asking a friend not to help his opponent ... meh w/e.
Its not that much drama. IDK who hbox is messaging since im a smash noob but its not that much drama. If hes asking a friend not to help his opponent ... meh w/e.
Yeah, I guess Leffen is alittle bit of a drama queen here :p
pp is brutalizing sfat now but pp goes for a weird missed tech, sfat punishes, then pp gets a ken combo, then sfat gets a juicy up smash and takes game 1!
Good on DruggedFox for realizing what he had to do to maximize his chance of winning, and also to take advantage of Evo's Bo3 format for it. Leffen was also probably the most susceptible of the top players to this kind of strategy since he's so reliant on experience and match-up knowledge.
However the problem is that DruggedFox just didn't ahead enough and Leffen is ahead enough that he had time to recover even in a Bo3. I think if it was a Bo5 game 4 would've been even uglier.
Leffen is very fortunate that M2K has so much shit to deal with/became bad/etc. recently cause a good Sheik/Marth combo is still his biggest weakness.
On July 19 2015 08:10 Dingodile wrote: do the world best playing intentionally 1st macht badly? leffen played badly in 1st and superb in 3rd, armada do the same now?
Some of it is that not-as-good players ultimately crack under pressure, some of it is the best players are great at adapting to different playstyles.
On July 19 2015 08:10 Dingodile wrote: do the world best playing intentionally 1st macht badly? leffen played badly in 1st and superb in 3rd, armada do the same now?
Some of it is that not-as-good players ultimately crack under pressure, some of it is the best players are great at adapting to different playstyles.
this is so true. playing well at tournament is hard as balls, especially against the top players in the world. I've never played against a god, but a few players in my region are miom top 100, and playing well against them is just impossible.
the adaptation is also important- top players can read your playstyle and find your weaknesses, and you keep doing the same shit. So the first game becomes like a scouting match, and then u get boned
kinda funny that armada, leffen and pp were the ones to drop a game (and not magno or hbox). would have thought that these 3 would be the most untouchables one
On July 19 2015 08:34 Paljas wrote: kinda funny that armada, leffen and pp were the ones to drop a game (and not magno or hbox). would have thought that these 3 would be the most untouchables one
if you compare who they played it makes 100% sense
On July 19 2015 08:37 aRyuujin wrote: Anyone know the thought process behind mango going falco vs ice and fox vs plup? Too afraid of a fox swap by ice?
On July 19 2015 08:37 aRyuujin wrote: Anyone know the thought process behind mango going falco vs ice and fox vs plup? Too afraid of a fox swap by ice?
Maybe the reason was that his Falco vs Sheik is better? Seems at least that way so far.
Like I get not wanting to jump off the stage and risk something but when you're up against arguably the best player right now you have to take some risks.
And the really inexcusable edge guards were the ones wehre Leffen channel Firefox right next to the stage and Ice did nothing ; [
On July 19 2015 09:47 synapse wrote: i can see mango dropping vs druggedfox though
it'll be a big upset. druggedfox's neutral is just not in the same universe. But if mango isn't on point, and there are some easy gimps, it could be possible
On July 19 2015 09:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Ice
Like I get not wanting to jump off the stage and risk something but when you're up against arguably the best player right now you have to take some risks.
And the really inexcusable edge guards were the ones wehre Leffen channel Firefox right next to the stage and Ice did nothing ; [
Especially since the neutral game was even/Ice was slightly better. Imagine actually getting 2-3 of those edge-guards...would have been really close.
On July 19 2015 10:05 Paljas wrote: btw, what the fuck is the prizepool distribution? 60% for first place?
yeah theres not enough money in the scene to be generous like dota
i dont get it. its not about being generous but having a fair prize distribution. 60% for first place is just dumb. just checked and saw that ceo had that too.
Wow just watched Mango's sets. Jeez he seems like he's learned nothing from the previous Plup encounter. He still doesn't respect the grab game and gets grabbed way too much vs Plup and DruggedFox. Previously he would just outplay opponents but with 20XX optimization...
On July 19 2015 10:06 synapse wrote: ppu recovery is sick
On July 19 2015 10:05 Paljas wrote: btw, what the fuck is the prizepool distribution? 60% for first place?
yeah theres not enough money in the scene to be generous like dota
i dont get it. its not about being generous but having a fair prize distribution. 60% for first place is just dumb. just checked and saw that ceo had that too.
its pretty standard, i dont think its dumb, you want to attract players for first place
On July 19 2015 17:52 Souma wrote: Greatest part was the casting during the Mang0 vs. Leffen set. :|
Oh and the very short Journey karaoke.
EE was decently entertaining during kage and bizz, but the series was so meh that it's really not worth the effort to rewatch. maybe motbob will put some of those jokes in the evo commentary highlights
I am not talking about adjustement, but i feel some gods arent interested to play two times against other gods (armada, hb, mango, m2k, leffen, ppd) in winnerbracket and in loserbracket again. Mango played like he was interested to trolling vs plup. Leffen vs hb the same, I think both do know the are meeting again (if they are not eliminated by other gods before). Those 6 gods are too good against "the rest".
I have the biggest respect to the gods and I can understand this sort of "adjustment" can be really helpful for some gods to other gods AND is really a win-win situation for all gods. Its a different story without loser bracket.
On July 19 2015 19:39 Dingodile wrote: I am not talking about adjustement, but i feel some gods arent interested to play two times against other gods (armada, hb, mango, m2k, leffen, ppd) in winnerbracket and in loserbracket again. Mango played like he was interested to trolling vs plup. Leffen vs hb the same, I think both do know the are meeting again (if they are not eliminated by other gods before). Those 6 gods are too good against "the rest".
I have the biggest respect to the gods and I can understand this sort of "adjustment" can be really helpful for some gods to other gods AND is really a win-win situation for all gods. Its a different story without loser bracket.
They may or may not be interested in playing each other multiple times, but I think everyone's objective is to win EVO, regardless of who they eventually need to play.
On July 19 2015 19:39 Dingodile wrote: I am not talking about adjustement, but i feel some gods arent interested to play two times against other gods (armada, hb, mango, m2k, leffen, ppd) in winnerbracket and in loserbracket again. Mango played like he was interested to trolling vs plup. Leffen vs hb the same, I think both do know the are meeting again (if they are not eliminated by other gods before). Those 6 gods are too good against "the rest".
I have the biggest respect to the gods and I can understand this sort of "adjustment" can be really helpful for some gods to other gods AND is really a win-win situation for all gods. Its a different story without loser bracket.
They may or may not be interested in playing each other multiple times, but I think everyone's objective is to win EVO, regardless of who they eventually need to play.
Ofcourse everyone is objective to win EVO (or whatever tournament), but it is definitely easier if you play one time against all gods than one time to all gods and 2 times to one of the gods. This "adjustement" is what I am talking. If you look the bracket, you will notice it edit: this "strategy" would have failed if armada lost to ppu (because leffen and mango were already in lowerbracket).
edit: I do think the same in sc2. a weak foreigner group with one top korean. The korean ended as 2nd (intentionally, to avoid a strong opponent in the first k.o. round).
On July 19 2015 19:39 Dingodile wrote: I am not talking about adjustement, but i feel some gods arent interested to play two times against other gods (armada, hb, mango, m2k, leffen, ppd) in winnerbracket and in loserbracket again. Mango played like he was interested to trolling vs plup. Leffen vs hb the same, I think both do know the are meeting again (if they are not eliminated by other gods before). Those 6 gods are too good against "the rest".
I have the biggest respect to the gods and I can understand this sort of "adjustment" can be really helpful for some gods to other gods AND is really a win-win situation for all gods. Its a different story without loser bracket.
They may or may not be interested in playing each other multiple times, but I think everyone's objective is to win EVO, regardless of who they eventually need to play.
Ofcourse everyone is objective to win EVO (or whatever tournament), but it is definitely easier if you play one time against all gods than one time to all gods and 2 times to one of the gods. This "adjustement" is what I am talking. If you look the bracket, you will notice it edit: this "strategy" would have failed if armada lost to ppu (because leffen and mango were already in lowerbracket).
edit: I do think the same in sc2. a weak foreigner group with one top korean. The korean ended as 2nd (intentionally, to avoid a strong opponent in the first k.o. round).
Yeah, I understand I think they're still taking a risk by getting a loss early. It's obviously a calculated risk, but it's just like in some sports as well. For example, in tennis, if you're playing a Best of 5 sets, you might not want to burn all your energy in the first 2 sets, because you'll want to be in decent shape for the 3rd. You play to your stamina and opponents, and sometimes that means knowing when to take your foot off the gas so that you're in better position later. Happens in gaming tournaments too, since the objective is to win no matter what (as long as you don't cheat)
lots of controller technicians on site. If he wants to play there are lots of people who can easily swap out the mobo, and let him use the same buttons/shell.
Yeah, what the hell is up with the quality? Yes, I am subbed, but the gameplay looks the same as videos on the Documentary from 2005/2006 MLG tournaments.
as someone who doesn't know anything about the scene I thought the whole time Plup was winning because the overlay was false and I don't know who plays what
lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
I like Hbox, but if he's going to have to resort to that campy timeout strat to beat Fox than I'm happy he lost. He needs to get knocked out of the tournament ASAP.
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
such a weird attitude
especially since armada played the exact same style.
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
such a weird attitude
especially since armada played the exact same style.
Its like people who complained about swarm host vs mech and both sides arguing which is the response and which is the first option.
Did HBox play that way because armada was going to? Or was it the other way around. People on both sides remain butt hurt as fuck
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
such a weird attitude
especially since armada played the exact same style.
Yeah, I don't get it. Armada plays the same style in game three with just abusing lasers, but the crowd doesn't boo him. Man, the smash crowd is weird lol. Maybe they just love fox more that puff?
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
such a weird attitude
especially since armada played the exact same style.
Its like people who complained about swarm host vs mech and both sides arguing which is the response and which is the first option.
Did HBox play that way because armada was going to? Or was it the other way around. People on both sides remain butt hurt as fuck
Yeah, but the crowd only booed HBox. They didn't boo Armada, which seemed weird.
On July 20 2015 05:45 Mohdoo wrote: lol @ Hbox. Happy to see that awful playstyle get stomped on. Hopefully mango wipes him up and we don't have to see much more of that embarrassing playstyle.
such a weird attitude
especially since armada played the exact same style.
Its like people who complained about swarm host vs mech and both sides arguing which is the response and which is the first option.
Did HBox play that way because armada was going to? Or was it the other way around. People on both sides remain butt hurt as fuck
On July 20 2015 05:52 templar rage wrote: Crowd was clearly distracted by all the pretty lasers to actually realize Armada was doing the same shit as Hbox
On July 20 2015 05:52 templar rage wrote: Crowd was clearly distracted by all the pretty lasers to actually realize Armada was doing the same shit as Hbox
On July 20 2015 06:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: i may be salty, but in bo5 leffen would have done it
leffen had it if not for two godlike reads for first two stocks in that last game
sure, but leffen was concerned about bo3 and it really showed this weekend
Leffen is also so reliant on matchup knowledge. Against samus, a lowtier with a good fox matchup whom he never plays against, it's easy for an upset to happen in bo3 before leffen can adapt
On July 20 2015 06:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: i may be salty, but in bo5 leffen would have done it
leffen had it if not for two godlike reads for first two stocks in that last game
sure, but leffen was concerned about bo3 and it really showed this weekend
Leffen is also so reliant on matchup knowledge. Against samus, a lowtier with a good fox matchup whom he never plays against, it's easy for an upset to happen in bo3 before leffen can adapt
Upset? More like Plup wrecks Leffen, beat him 2-1 last time as well.
On July 20 2015 06:38 Headshot wrote: Mango would never have lost that last map if he didn't SD twicse. A pretty lame way to go out and for Hbox to advance.
Yeah, but Mango should have played better then, and not SD. Hungrybox won cause he was better in that game lol.
On July 20 2015 06:45 Antifate wrote: Meh Hungrybox played pretty terrible that match as well. I'm not sure his skills or mentality can stand up to the rest of the players rn.
PP confirmed for fraud lol. Suspected this would happen - gets to winner finals without facing a single top 6 cause everyone else choked it away, and he just gets wrecked.
On July 20 2015 06:49 Amestir wrote: As a new viewer this game really gives you an easy way to find someone to root for. I just support every non fox player
Armada plays Peach and Fox, Mango Fox and Falco. What do you do?
On July 20 2015 06:49 Amestir wrote: As a new viewer this game really gives you an easy way to find someone to root for. I just support every non fox player
Armada plays Peach and Fox, Mango Fox and Falco. What do you do?
As long as they don't Fox ditto you're okay, maybe?
On July 20 2015 06:49 Amestir wrote: As a new viewer this game really gives you an easy way to find someone to root for. I just support every non fox player
Armada plays Peach and Fox, Mango Fox and Falco. What do you do?
On July 20 2015 06:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: PP confirmed for fraud lol. Suspected this would happen - gets to winner finals without facing a single top 6 cause everyone else choked it away, and he just gets wrecked.
On July 20 2015 06:57 Kishin2 wrote: Feels like all the hype died when mango lost. Doesn't sound like the commentators are into it as they should either.
Pretty they are both pretty good friends with Mango, so they're probably a little disappointed personally.
On July 20 2015 06:57 Kishin2 wrote: Feels like all the hype died when mango lost. Doesn't sound like the commentators are into it as they should either.
Meh it feels like a foregone conclusion that Armada is gonna win at this point, without the benefit of some hype storyline or anything.
On July 20 2015 06:57 Kishin2 wrote: Feels like all the hype died when mango lost. Doesn't sound like the commentators are into it as they should either.
Well, viewers dropped afterwards from 189k to 183k.
On July 20 2015 07:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This game is super anti hype. All the hyped just died zz.
Yeah, Mango > HBox and Plup > Mango would have been awesome.
On July 20 2015 07:06 Roggay wrote: You guys sure are harsh. I don't watch smash that often, but you guys are really sour even tho a liquid player is winning.
Closed the stream because of hbox. So tired of seeing his style of play. I dig that hes going for the win, but idk man, smash is all about the style for me.
On July 20 2015 07:06 Roggay wrote: You guys sure are harsh. I don't watch smash that often, but you guys are really sour even tho a liquid player is winning.
And that should matter in...what way?
Well we are still on a website called "Teamliquid". It should count a little. Atleast it did when I was watching sc2 in WoL.
Flaming the play style is fucking stupid, I say it's anti hype because results seem like a foregone conclusion. You do what you have to do to win, complaining about the playstyle is stupid.
On July 20 2015 07:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Flaming the play style is fucking stupid, I say it's anti hype because results seem like a foregone conclusion. You do what you have to do to win, complaining about the playstyle is stupid.
Depends what you find exciting in smash. I want to see exciting games. These are not exciting games.
On July 20 2015 07:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This game is super anti hype. All the hyped just died zz.
Yeah, Mango > HBox and Plup > Mango would have been awesome.
On July 20 2015 07:06 Roggay wrote: You guys sure are harsh. I don't watch smash that often, but you guys are really sour even tho a liquid player is winning.
And that should matter in...what way?
Well we are still on a website called "Teamliquid". It should count a little. Atleast it did when I was watching sc2 in WoL.
I'm only here for BW and Melee and I've never seen HBox post here.
On July 20 2015 07:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Flaming the play style is fucking stupid, I say it's anti hype because results seem like a foregone conclusion. You do what you have to do to win, complaining about the playstyle is stupid.
I get what you're saying but I get annoyed watching hbox play just as much as I would if I saw a 4gate or 2rax every single game. Analogy isn't perfect but it's still anti-hype for the viewer imo
On July 20 2015 07:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Flaming the play style is fucking stupid, I say it's anti hype because results seem like a foregone conclusion. You do what you have to do to win, complaining about the playstyle is stupid.
I get what you're saying but I get annoyed watching hbox play just as much as I would if I saw a 4gate or 2rax every single game. Analogy isn't perfect but it's still anti-hype for the viewer imo
I actually really like it since he is the only player that can play at this high of a level with this style.
On July 20 2015 07:16 Headshot wrote: It should have been Mango v Armada.
He shouldn't have SDed twice then~
Kinda sucks I really wanted to see PP vs Leffen. Leffen is just too reliant on match-up specific knowledge, he's waytoo prone to losing to random ppl whoare "worse" than him.
I'm not saying Mango shouldn't have lost, because if you SD it's completely your fault, but if it was Mango v Armada in the finals than we'd have 200k+ viewers for sure.
On July 20 2015 07:16 Headshot wrote: It should have been Mango v Armada.
He shouldn't have SDed twice then~
Kinda sucks I really wanted to see PP vs Leffen. Leffen is just too reliant on match-up specific knowledge, he's waytoo prone to losing to random ppl whoare "worse" than him.
Well, we still have half an hour, despite HBox's games taking forever. Also, I probably stand corrected with the 200k, as there are more games than expected.
On July 20 2015 07:16 Headshot wrote: It should have been Mango v Armada.
He shouldn't have SDed twice then~
Kinda sucks I really wanted to see PP vs Leffen. Leffen is just too reliant on match-up specific knowledge, he's waytoo prone to losing to random ppl whoare "worse" than him.
Why is that though? Not aggressive enough?
I think he meant that leffen has problems against "gimmick" movements lol
On July 20 2015 07:16 Headshot wrote: It should have been Mango v Armada.
He shouldn't have SDed twice then~
Kinda sucks I really wanted to see PP vs Leffen. Leffen is just too reliant on match-up specific knowledge, he's waytoo prone to losing to random ppl whoare "worse" than him.
Why is that though? Not aggressive enough?
I think he meant that leffen has problems against "gimmick" movements lol
Leffen's approach to the game is very methodical. I think he's actually a very dedicated player who studies the game and opponents as lot. As a result, you can see the fruits of his labor when he goes from getting demolished in fox dittos vs armada to completely figuring him out.
In contrast, Leffen is not great at on the fly adaptation in the same way someone like Mango or Armada is. When confronted with unfamiliar matchups it takes Leffen more time to figure it out, which really hurts him in a Bo3 format.
On July 20 2015 07:16 Headshot wrote: It should have been Mango v Armada.
He shouldn't have SDed twice then~
Kinda sucks I really wanted to see PP vs Leffen. Leffen is just too reliant on match-up specific knowledge, he's waytoo prone to losing to random ppl whoare "worse" than him.
Why is that though? Not aggressive enough?
not enough experience. plup is the best samus in the world even when hes not maining her anymore, and leffen doesnt have a lot of matchup experience against him
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
Lots of practice vs CPU's to get techs and stuff down well as well as local tournaments to get practice vs people. Also a lot of scene's developed in pockets together so people live nearby eachother enough to practice
On July 20 2015 07:39 Footler wrote: Ya where is Plup? I know everyone wants to win but certainly he can't be that upset about the insane tournament run he just had.
On July 20 2015 07:39 Footler wrote: Ya where is Plup? I know everyone wants to win but certainly he can't be that upset about the insane tournament run he just had.
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
if u want to train melee u go to peoples houses and tournaments and play some fuckin melee
thats how u practice lol
On July 20 2015 07:54 Kipsate wrote: can someone tldr or tldw what HB did and why everyone is salty
stalled at the ledge when ahead, to go near him is very risky but you have to or the game eventually times out and he wins because hes ahead on percent
On July 20 2015 07:54 Kipsate wrote: can someone tldr or tldw what HB did and why everyone is salty
Ledge-camping like crazy, making M2K looking like a beginner in that regard. He got owned by Armada and Mango eventually in that regard though...but not after winning a game against Armada thanks to timeout.
On July 20 2015 07:54 Kipsate wrote: can someone tldr or tldw what HB did and why everyone is salty
Get lead -> Camp on ledge -> Wait for other guy to approach or run the clock out.
Ok now someone explain to me how HB was camping more than Armada who was keeping the distance with lasers for solid minutes. Like if you hate HB because of camping why would you hate him in that situation?
On July 20 2015 07:54 Kipsate wrote: can someone tldr or tldw what HB did and why everyone is salty
Get lead -> Camp on ledge -> Wait for other guy to approach or run the clock out.
Ok now someone explain to me how HB was camping more than Armada who was keeping the distance with lasers for solid minutes. Like if you hate HB because of camping why would you hate him in that situation?
You mean on FD where he actually crossed HBox? Or do you mean when HBox was camping that he rarely approached, shooting lasers and only attacking when he saw an opening? The former is definitely not worse and the latter is the fault of HBox since it is extremely risky to approach normally with a good chance at getting gimped.
On July 20 2015 07:54 Kipsate wrote: can someone tldr or tldw what HB did and why everyone is salty
Get lead -> Camp on ledge -> Wait for other guy to approach or run the clock out.
Ok now someone explain to me how HB was camping more than Armada who was keeping the distance with lasers for solid minutes. Like if you hate HB because of camping why would you hate him in that situation?
laser camping requires spacing to avoid getting put into the corner as well as the fact you rack up percent with lasers
im kinda suprised that ledge stalling doesnt count as stalling when something like wobbling past 250 does
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
HOLY SHIT i feel the difference hard, i actually cant waveland onto platforms on netplay, and i see people complaining all the time about playing vs falcos all the time, i have no idea how you cant feel it.
buffer is always 3-4 because i have 40-50 ping always
like i literally have a crt and my pc right next to me and i swap from the crt for 20xx practice to netplay to play people, the difference is so noticeable lmao
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
Thats pretty much 2 frames of lag before anything else. Idk how you think thats possibly less lag then a tournament set up
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
HOLY SHIT i feel the difference hard, i actually cant waveland onto platforms on netplay, and i see people complaining all the time about playing vs falcos all the time, i have no idea how you cant feel it.
buffer is always 3-4 because i have 40-50 ping always
like i literally have a crt and my pc right next to me and i swap from the crt for 20xx practice to netplay to play people, the difference is so noticeable lmao
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
HOLY SHIT i feel the difference hard, i actually cant waveland onto platforms on netplay, and i see people complaining all the time about playing vs falcos all the time, i have no idea how you cant feel it.
buffer is always 3-4 because i have 40-50 ping always
like i literally have a crt and my pc right next to me and i swap from the crt for 20xx practice to netplay to play people, the difference is so noticeable lmao
On July 20 2015 07:39 Makro wrote: another noob question but how do the pro train ?
because if i'm correct they don't have access to a decent online system ? i may be wrong
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
HOLY SHIT i feel the difference hard, i actually cant waveland onto platforms on netplay, and i see people complaining all the time about playing vs falcos all the time, i have no idea how you cant feel it.
buffer is always 3-4 because i have 40-50 ping always
like i literally have a crt and my pc right next to me and i swap from the crt for 20xx practice to netplay to play people, the difference is so noticeable lmao
I don't think you've ever gone to a local if you're seriously arguing that netplay lag is unnoticeable
I go to locals and I have a CRT set up with 20xx and melee on a hacked wii I don't think you've ever played lagless netplay There's a big difference dude between bad netplay and the perfect set up And if you play people with high ping of course you're boned
Look I'm not saying that netplay is perfect and I'm not advocating practicing with it. But perfect lagless netplay is an extremely recent invention that almost no one has tried, but everybody still hates on it because they assume it's as bad as the 2 port may flash on 652 with any old monitor
ANYWAY, yeah if you're lucky enough to be able to play 4 buffer or less the majority of the time, it's barely if at all noticeable, and congratulations. Most people don't have that luxury. The reason I'm not on netplay all the time is because I don't always get that opportunity, otherwise I'd probably just play netplay. Unfortunately, to find people around my skill level I often have to skip-over the hardcores who're on all the time in Seattle because the only people on are in Oregon or Cali (I'm BC.)
Isn't it still a pointless argument though? Even if you're playing with a lagless setup, almost no one else is, so aren't you just playing against people with an enormous handicap if you're lagless and your opponent isn't?
On July 20 2015 07:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: [quote]
There is an emulator + netplay, but it's not ideal since there's non negligible lag for anyting outside of super close distances. Really bad for frame dependent games like Melee.
It's usually just local tourneys - that's why having a strong local scene has historically been so crucial for creating top players, cause there's just access to more high quality people to play with. Which is why it's super strange how PPMD does so well since he's in a relatively weak region and doesn't travel to tournaments.
Still think PPMD fluked a lot but meh. 0-6 to gods~
You can get less lag than a tournament set up w/ CRT with the right netplay setup
? no u cant at best when playing vs someone on the same computer its the same (with the right adapter) but as soon as you netplay someone there is at least 1 buffer, usually 3
Console polls more slowly than 6554.
that doesnt matter you have at least 1 buffered frame on netplay and thats if they literally live next door and you have godlike net
How much buffer do u put lmao My ping isnt Ebola so I max ping like 30ish which translates to two buffer which is one frame. Aka it's basically indistinguishable. People rag hard on netplay but i bet you'd never notice the difference playing on an optimal netplay setup.
HOLY SHIT i feel the difference hard, i actually cant waveland onto platforms on netplay, and i see people complaining all the time about playing vs falcos all the time, i have no idea how you cant feel it.
buffer is always 3-4 because i have 40-50 ping always
like i literally have a crt and my pc right next to me and i swap from the crt for 20xx practice to netplay to play people, the difference is so noticeable lmao
I don't think you've ever gone to a local if you're seriously arguing that netplay lag is unnoticeable
I go to locals and I have a CRT set up with 20xx and melee on a hacked wii I don't think you've ever played lagless netplay There's a big difference dude between bad netplay and the perfect set up And if you play people with high ping of course you're boned
Look I'm not saying that netplay is perfect and I'm not advocating practicing with it. But perfect lagless netplay is an extremely recent invention that almost no one has tried, but everybody still hates on it because they assume it's as bad as the 2 port may flash on 652 with any old monitor
They hate on it because perfect lagless netplay doesn't exist. You're literally arguing that 30 ms is lagless, when its effectively 2 frames of lag. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by spewing this bullshit out but unless you're playing over lan it's not going to be lagless at all, and 30 ms of delay is incredibly important.
On July 20 2015 09:26 TheYango wrote: Isn't it still a pointless argument though? Even if you're playing with a lagless setup, almost no one else is, so aren't you just playing against people with an enormous handicap if you're lagless and your opponent isn't?
Well right, but the actual motive of lagless netplay is for it to be good practice. If you're playing everyone with an enormous handicap because of their lag AND not many good players are playing netplay due to the stigma against it, that sort of defeats the purpose even if lagless netplay *exists* because it still doesn't accomplish the goal of being good practice.
On July 20 2015 09:59 TheYango wrote: Well right, but the actual motive of lagless netplay is for it to be good practice. If you're playing everyone with an enormous handicap because of their lag AND not many good players are playing netplay due to the stigma against it, that sort of defeats the purpose even if lagless netplay *exists* because it still doesn't accomplish the goal of being good practice.
i have access to good players and im still at a point where playing netplay can help me learn which is why i play netplay (plus i dont have access to other smashers at the moment)
Does anyone know where I can find VODS of EVO? Are they up on Twitch somewhere? Top 8 doesn't appear to be on the srkevo2 past broadcasts yet for some reason.
Top 8 was super hype, though only Armada and Hbox were playing well. Mango was looking shaky even against Chu, and then did the hardest throw in history. Chu dropped a game-winning wobble game 1 (Dizzkidboogie was next to me and was not happy about that.) Axe missed a bunch of crucial tailspikes. Leffen was just not looking as clean as he usually does, even missing some waveshine upsmashes vs Plup (though that wd back oos uptilt against Axe's crossup nair was sooooooo slick agh). Plup was making tons of technical flubs, while PP's neutral was weak (for PP) and he repeatedly dropped punishes...
but Hbox played out of his mind (beating Armada on Stadium?????), and Armada was his usual solid, don't-make-mistakes self. Both Hbox and Armada made incredible use of crouch cancelling (or maybe just ASDI down?) to get out of scary setups (Hbox cc'd side b and dodged the ensuing uptilt; Armada cc shined some aerials that would've led into edgeguard situations or grabs.) Amazing play by those two.
Must say: I really don't appreciate hbox's style when he incessantly ledge camps, but he's a great sport win or lose-- and that is something I really respect.
I don't like Hbox's style in general, but no one deserves a boo short of being a criminal or breaking the game. Was pretty gross how the crowd kept the booing up even to the awards ceremony.
Of course you deserve boos. If you sacrifice audience experience for victory, the audience is allowed to retaliate with boos.
I want to take a step back from this issue a little bit and maybe dodge the issue of whether booing is an objectionable thing or not. Whenever a person does something like invoke the rules to take a stock under nitpicky circumstances (like Leffen did), one line of discourse that inevitably arises is, "You play to win, so Player's actions were completely justified," as if "play to win" is a tenet of esports competition grounded in the firmest bedrock. But, of course, not everyone plays to win at all costs, and it might be argued that very few people do.
When you play, do you, personally, get satisfaction from only winning? Or do you also care about your ties with your local community? Or your relationships with others, which are built up over time as you attend tournaments? If you care about relationships as well as winning, what goes through your mind when someone you have known for months/years accidentally pauses in tournament? The decision to take a stock, as allowed in the rules, can't be automatic. The decision is made by balancing your desire to build positive relationships with others with the desire to win. There is no right or wrong decision. Everything depends on the situation and on your personal preferences.
Likewise, there is a relationship with the audience that is affected by your actions. And it is a relationship that has very real effects. Anyone who has been in the public eye for any extended period of time can attest to the draining effects that interacting with the internet community can bring. There may be dozens of positive comments and very few negative ones, but the negative comments tend to create stronger emotions inside you, and those emotions can be draining. It's not hard to find examples of people who simply cannot deal with negative comments at all (TB being probably the most glaring one). And God forbid you piss off a large part of the internet audience. Ask Ellen Pao what that can lead to.
So to bring it all together, your actions in the game as a player on the big stage cannot automatically be based on a "play to win" mentality. They must also take into account your relationship with the audience. In my view, when viewing the shifting relationship between Hbox and the audience this weekend, the proper thing to get out of the situation is not to get mad at the audience for being human and having a natural human reaction. Rather, it's to express admiration for Hbox, who knows the ledge camp strategy is awful for spectators and knows that he's going to take heat for it, but who simply doesn't care. Hbox completely wrecked his relationship with the audience because he had the WILL to do so. The WILL to win at all costs. His preferences are in the "play to win" category far more than any other top player's except maybe Leffen's. That's been true for years: a top player from Florida was on commentary (at Genesis?) and said something to the effect of, "This is the only time when we would ever cheer for Hungrybox." He didn't care then and he doesn't care now.
Look at the contrast between Mango and Hungrybox. Could their attitude toward the game be any different? Mango cares deeply about relationships with others, putting on a show for the audience, and having fun in the moment. Winning is something like 4th on his list of priorities (witness his months/years of sandbagging), with EVO maybe being the exception.
If audiences were dispassionate and polite, the choice would be meaningless. Celebrate the boos. The boos arise out of the mental fortitude and unique personality of one man. And I think that's awesome.
I'd like to clarify that I understand the booing during the actual tournament, which I completely understand, as I don't like his style myself. I think it was a little overboard when it persisted through the awards, though. Kinda greezy, but whatever I guess. He's used to the anti-fans, has been for years, but as far I personally can remember, this has been his worst case.
On July 22 2015 00:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: PP and M2K too.
Armada is TBH the only person who isn't super "questionable" out of the game. Meh.
m2k is a clown but I generally believe that m2k doesn't understand the social ramifications of his actions. IMO he's a lovable clown; I had a freshman roommate a couple years ago that really reminded me of m2k, so perhaps I just have a soft spot for him. He's my favorite player even though irl we're probably the least alike of any god.
I love M2K, and it's abundantly obvious that he has something along the lines of Asperger's (he stated he has a mild form of it but who knows it might be self diagnosed?). I don't mean anything particularly negative with the term "clown," just traits that some people might think are weird/annoying/whatever outside fo the context of Melee.
On July 22 2015 00:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: PP and M2K too.
Armada is TBH the only person who isn't super "questionable" out of the game. Meh.
How's PP a clown? I wasn't around when he was prolific at tournaments, but since I've been watching he's seemed like an alright dude.
PP was on the higher end of the "whiny" spectrum for a long time before his retirement/hermitage, and had a reputation of being particularly aloof and arrogant and cold, esp when compared with people like M2K who just loved to talk about the game with randoms. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing but I think it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way back when he was attending a lot of tournaments. Now it's like whatever, who knows, he only goes to a handful of tournaments and trolls Twitch chat..
PP is definitely not "aloof / arrogant / cold" anymore, if he ever was (I don't particularly remember him being that way ever, but I didn't really interact with him, I guess.) Maybe he's extra-focused during tourneys or something.
Before he became a zen mountain sage PP was the saltiest of the top 5. His salty handshakes compilation vs. M2K didn't exactly consist of only PP wins, after all.
EPT
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Mang0 
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Armada ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/9/92/MarthIcon.png/18px-MarthIcon.png)
PPMD ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/6/69/JigglypuffIcon.png/18px-JigglypuffIcon.png)
Hungrybox ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/b/bb/IceClimbersIcon.png/18px-IceClimbersIcon.png)
Wobbles ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/0/0f/PikachuIcon.png/18px-PikachuIcon.png)
Axe ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/3/3f/SheikIcon.png/18px-SheikIcon.png)
Shroomed ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/9/97/SamusIcon.png/18px-SamusIcon.png)
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S2J 
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/0/09/YoshiIcon.png/18px-YoshiIcon.png)
aMSa 
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/images/thumb/7/79/LuigiIcon.png/18px-LuigiIcon.png)
Eddy Mexico![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
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FO-nTTaX
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