EPTNorth America: The Defining Differences - Page 2
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METATERREN
71 Posts
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METATERREN
71 Posts
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xxsaznpride
United States506 Posts
Edit: not all of the pros are from 1.6. Shroud said in an interview that he started with Source and kinda just threw all his time into it. | ||
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roronoe
Canada1527 Posts
It's always been Asia > Europe > NA Only dota looks like it MIGHT be bucking the trend | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On July 01 2015 11:42 xxsaznpride wrote: Didn't bring up how all the top EU players are part of a Facebook group that can quickly and easily coordinate scrims and discuss their faults and successes afterward. Last I heard, Gares was saying he wanted to make something like that for the NA scene, and that when NA teams scrim, they don't actually talk about anything; they just win/lose and say bye bye. Edit: not all of the pros are from 1.6. Shroud said in an interview that he started with Source and kinda just threw all his time into it. | ||
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METATERREN
71 Posts
On July 01 2015 11:42 xxsaznpride wrote: Didn't bring up how all the top EU players are part of a Facebook group that can quickly and easily coordinate scrims and discuss their faults and successes afterward. Last I heard, Gares was saying he wanted to make something like that for the NA scene, and that when NA teams scrim, they don't actually talk about anything; they just win/lose and say bye bye. Edit: not all of the pros are from 1.6. Shroud said in an interview that he started with Source and kinda just threw all his time into it. https://www.facebook.com/pages/ESport-Counter-Strike Start using it for amateur matches plus plus | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On July 01 2015 10:52 HonestTea wrote: By that logic NA people should be poorer than Europeans at other team endeavors, such as basketball, ice hockey, American football. False analogy. In CS:GO the player numbers across Europe and NA are somewhat comparable (I would say at most 1:2 or 1:3), whereas virtually nobody outside of NA cares about basketball, ice hockey or american football. | ||
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Leafty
France84 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On July 01 2015 13:48 SlixSC wrote: False analogy. In CS:GO the player numbers across Europe and NA are somewhat comparable (I would say at most 1:2 or 1:3), whereas virtually nobody outside of NA cares about basketball, ice hockey or american football. The premise was "America churns out competitors who compete solely for themselves at the detriment of those around them." This premise is untrue when we examine the teamwork that Americans display in basketball, hockey, football. America produces lots of people who excel at being a part of a team. Not just in the sports I mentioned, but also in the the corporate world. And in military. BTW in many parts of Europe either basketball or ice hockey is very popular and those countries are in direct competition with US or Canada in international competitions. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
With that being said, a lot of NA players definitely do care more about individual success like stats and kills. You can see that from watching streams and matches. I think there is a more specific reason to that: ESEA. Every single competitor in NA plays on Esea. Stats and RWS is everything there. Players do everything to get RWS. People get judged by it. People are so worried about their RWS that it changes the way they play in a very negative way. The only way you get high RWS is by killing people or defusing/planting. It promotes fraghunting and baiting to an extreme and a lot of up and coming players still have that ingrained in their playstyle. I think it's not a coincidence that Dazed was the best IGL/had the best chance of winning with his team. He never really liked playing ESEA pugs and he never liked the pug-star type players in his team no matter how hard they can frag. ESEA is pretty much irrelevant in EU. People either play matchmaking or face-it or they scrim on private servers or community servers. Individual stats don't get saved on a public profile for everyone to see. RWS is not a thing. Only getting better and winning is. Other than that this was a very nice read. Haven't seen many writeups like this for CS:Go yet. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On July 01 2015 15:39 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I think generalized statements about whole continents should not be made based on observations in a game. Especially since EU consists of dozens of different cultures and societies. In a lot of aspects individualism is a lot more prominent than it is in NA and I'm certain there is aspects where it is the other way around as well. In the whole paragraph about culture you jump to conclusions pretty hard. ("The fear of being a burden" for swedes seems very far fetched for example). With that being said, a lot of NA players definitely do care more about individual success like stats and kills. You can see that from watching streams and matches. I think there is a more specific reason to that: ESEA. Every single competitor in NA plays on Esea. Stats and RWS is everything there. Players do everything to get RWS. People get judged by it. People are so worried about their RWS that it changes the way they play in a very negative way. The only way you get high RWS is by killing people or defusing/planting. It promotes fraghunting and baiting to an extreme and a lot of up and coming players still have that ingrained in their playstyle. I think it's not a coincidence that Dazed was the best IGL/had the best chance of winning with his team. He never really liked playing ESEA pugs and he never liked the pug-star type players in his team no matter how hard they can frag. ESEA is pretty much irrelevant in EU. People either play matchmaking or face-it or they scrim on private servers or community servers. Individual stats don't get saved on a public profile for everyone to see. RWS is not a thing. Only getting better and winning is. Other than that this was a very nice read. Haven't seen many writeups like this for CS:Go yet. There isn't a single country in Europe, except maybe the UK, that promotes individualism more than the U.S. and a quick look at the political and social policies can tell you that. But don't worry, I never made any generalizations about Europe, just Sweden. =) Anyway yes, the ESEA thing may be an issue, but you're forgetting an important question: Why? Why do Americans care about stats? This attachment to statistical prominence is not developed in a vacuum. Place a group of Japanese players in ESEA and let's see how they react to RWS (I assure you they wouldn't care nearly as much). | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
North America is really just two countries (Canada and USA) and I think population is not necessarily irrelevant but size doesn't make you good at certain sports. Like in soccer, Uruguay being a very small country produced some of the best talents and does better than most higher populated countries But to clump all these European countries together, it seems like a higher chance for one of the teams from those countries to be carrying the flag for Europe. The UK doesn't have any top teams in CS, but it doesn't matter they're part of the EU scene. So if American teams place badly, it's an auto fail for NA because pretty much one country is carrying the flag for NA (some teams in NA having a few Canadians). If Na'Vi placed lower than some of the American teams, it doesn't matter because Fnatic won the whole tournament for the Euros. But yes, the NA scene is weaker than the Euro scene. But it's a two-country scene versus a scene that includes many countries. UK, Spain, Russia, etc have the same infrastructure and practice resource as other countries in Europe. | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On July 01 2015 16:08 Souma wrote: There isn't a single country in Europe, except maybe the UK, that promotes individualism more than the U.S. and a quick look at the political and social policies can tell you that. But don't worry, I never made any generalizations about Europe, just Sweden. =) Anyway yes, the ESEA thing may be an issue, but you're forgetting an important question: Why? Why do Americans care about stats? This attachment to statistical prominence is not developed in a vacuum. Place a group of Japanese players in ESEA and let's see how they react to RWS (I assure you they wouldn't care nearly as much). Who's to say that the American teams at the top level care about RWS? RWS is a stat for people to look at when they pug. When you are scrimming as a team, players primary focus isn't RWS (or shouldn't). | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Maybe people in NA just focus more of their energy into actually MAKING almost all of the E-Sports games they suck at  | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On July 01 2015 16:08 Souma wrote: There isn't a single country in Europe, except maybe the UK, that promotes individualism more than the U.S. and a quick look at the political and social policies can tell you that. But don't worry, I never made any generalizations about Europe, just Sweden. =) Anyway yes, the ESEA thing may be an issue, but you're forgetting an important question: Why? Why do Americans care about stats? This attachment to statistical prominence is not developed in a vacuum. Place a group of Japanese players in ESEA and let's see how they react to RWS (I assure you they wouldn't care nearly as much). Are you really doubling down on your cultural theory. | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On July 01 2015 17:12 Souma wrote: Top teams definitely do not care about RWS. I believe what people are trying to say is that that mentality carries over to the pro scene which results in the kind of puggy and undisciplined play NA is renowned for. I don't think that RWS mentality carries over; chasing frags or pushing into sites by themselves to get better RWS is not something I see teams doing. When you are scrimming, it's different than pugging, obviously. ESEA provides resources for both. If RWS was removed, I don't see it impacting anything at all at an organized team level. When I watch C9 or even liquid (recently), they have executed strats with flashes and molotovs. CLG does look a bit puggish but maybe that's just their style and I see nV have a puggish style too. When you lose, you are always going to look sloppy. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
If RWS was removed, I don't see it impacting anything at all at an organized team level. That's exactly what I implied. Even without stats, players here would still have a tendency to hunt for frags since it's just how they play (and even without RWS, there's KDA). Also, Cloud9 is one of the biggest culprits of carelessly peeking. Go watch their recent Gfinity matches. It's a huge issue that's been haunting professional NA teams. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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