The game will take place between The World (formerly: Team Orient) and qrs, playing alone, only with Calgar as his second (formerly: Team Occident). All former Team Occident members willing to play on, are now playing White.
The game will start from the position that occured after White's 9th move (9. f2-f3) in Chess Match #7.
Any TL user is free to sign up for The World team at any time until the game ends.
Time Controls
The World has precisely 48 hours for each move. Moves shall not be played early and there are no extensions.
qrs has 48 hours for each move plus possible 24 hours of an extension everytime he has to be off the internet for a longer period of time. The number of his extensions is undetermined, but there can't be more than one extension at a time. Like in The World's case, qrs' moves shall not be played early.
The game will (re)start at September 11th, 13:00 PM KST. From that point on, qrs' 48-hour clock will start ticking.
Refereeing
I, wingpawn, will referee this game and update the OP accordingly. Whenever the OP is updated, there will be also an update posted on the course of a thread.
There might be times when I won't be able to post the update. In case of that, please note that the status of the game is determined by the thread, not the OP.
For this reason, posting rules must be particularly strict, in order that all players can easily determine the latest moves in the game for themselves, from this thread. The posting rules are as follows:
Posting
During the game, a player's post may be edited only until the point of his team's next move. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES may he edit that post subsequently to this point. Any player who does so is automatically banned from this game; that is, he is removed from 'The World' team and his votes no longer count. This is harsh, but necessary in order for the game to function predictably to everyone, since an edit can mask any earlier post, including a vote.
All posts that perform an action (joining a team or casting a vote) must follow the specified format in order to make them easily findable by search. The formats are:
To join the game: ##JOIN The World
To vote for a move: ##VOTE [move number, followed by period if White and ellipsis if Black] [move, preferably in long algebraic notation]
If the move isn't in long algebraic notation, it will still be counted as long as it's unambiguous, but please try to stick to that notation if possible.
To vote for a draw offer/acceptance, resignation, or playing on: ##[move number, followed by period if White and ellipsis if Black] [DRAW/RESIGN/PLAY ON]
Note: a vote for a move without a vote for a draw or resignation is considered a default vote for playing on.
Multiple actions may be performed in a single post.
All actions that do not conform to the above formats will officially not be counted.
Please avoid quoting a vote!
Tallying Votes
At the deadline for each The World's move, the vote tallies determine
what move to play if the game continues.
whether to extend/accept a draw offer, resign, or play on.
Note: a vote for a move without a vote for a draw or resignation is considered a default vote for playing on.
These votes are tallied independently and decided by plurality.
Ties are broken by discarding the most recent votes [as determined by last-edited time] until a plurality emerges.
Only valid votes are tallied. These are votes that
conform exactly to the specified format
Note: the reason for this is to make votes easily tallyable via search. Therefore, case can be ignored, since most default search functions, especially in browsers, ignore case. Everything else about the format must be exact.
are posted by a member of the team whose turn it is to move at the moment the vote is posted.
appear in posts that were last edited before the deadline for that move.
Game Rules
The game will be played according to the generally accepted Rules of Chess.
The game will conclude per the first of the following conditions to be reached
the game concludes per the usual rules of chess
a team fails to make a legal move by its deadline, in which case that team loses by forfeit.
A six-man position is reached, in which case the game's outcome is determined by tablebase.
Note: in this connection, the 50-move rule is not considered—i.e., if the game has reached a six-man position, the game is over. A draw cannot be claimed by pointing out that, were the game played out further, it would take more than 50 (non-capturing, non-pawn-advancing) moves to checkmate.
Computer analysis is prohibited. This rule cannot be strictly enforced, but in the event that a player posts computer analysis to a team forum and I am made aware of this, the analysis in question will be posted to the main thread, and the user who posted it will be banned from this game.
Opening databases, endgame tablebases, and human friends may be consulted.
Everyone's basically on the honor system here, but the purpose of this game is to have fun, so please respect the rules on this point.
Original Message From calgar: if you want some help in the game i'd be willing to look into lines and send them to you
I'd be happy to accept your help if wingpawn is willing. I'll let you know what he says.
Alright.
Full disclosure - I briefly perused the QT for white earlier in the game. I didn't pay much attention to analysis since I wasn't playing but I figured I would mention it. I'm not sure if they are still using it or a new one but I won't visit it again.
Maybe Calgar shouldn't start aiding me until Team White decides that the previous discussion is no longer relevant.
Second request: can we play this from the point of the original forfeit (Black's 9th move) rather than from this position? The 10th move really happened after the Black team had already forfeited once. I wasn't involved in that move, and I'm not sure it's the one I'd have liked to play.
Thank you! I'll refrain from consulting Calgar for the first move or two, since he might have seen some relevant analysis in the old Team Orient forum.
Anyway, Team Occident's play had gotten a little schizoid towards the end. I was basically the only one who voted for 8...Nh6, but move 9 (played when Team Orient offered to waive the forfeit) was voted for by team members who thought 8...Nh6 was an awful move and were trying to bail out.
8...Nh6 was meant to set up ...f5. Without that, it becomes a very weak-looking move. Furthermore, 9...Nc6 relinquishes our pressure on White's central piece too soon, IMHO. Therefore, as I see it, it's either admit that 8... Nh6 was a mistake, and shift into pure defensive mode, or keep going with the plan.
##MOVE 9... f7-f5
PS- I realize that this move won't be officially played until tomorrow (and I can theoretically change it until then).; PPS- Technically, I suppose I should have said ##VOTE 9... f7-f5, but it seemed a little silly, since I'm the only voter on my team. Anyway, you all know what I mean.
On September 28 2013 17:14 Malinor wrote: Regarding O-O-O + Show Spoiler +
Regarding your spoiler (which I haven't looked at), I take it that Calgar and I are not meant to read it; correct?
Correct, since we played before (TL match 4 or so), I assumed you know the drill. However, there really isn't much of an analysis in the spoiler. Now that I have access to the team forum I will just remove it.
14. 0-0 - Sinedd Sinedd's vote came when there was still Black's turn.
For what it's worth, according to my interpretation of the rules, the tally would have come out differently, though the outcome would have been the same. I'd have counted Sinedd's vote for 14. O-O, since there is no rule stating that you can't vote for a move early, as long as you specify the move you're voting for. Accordingly, the result would have been a 3-3 tie between O-O and O-O-O, which would have been broken by throwing out LonelyCat's vote for O-O (so in this case, the move played would have been the same).
You're the referee here, so your interpretation of the rules counts, but in that case I suggest you edit the rules in the OP to explicitly require voting to be done during the relevant turn and not ahead of time.
14. 0-0 - Sinedd Sinedd's vote came when there was still Black's turn.
For what it's worth, according to my interpretation of the rules, the tally would have come out differently, though the outcome would have been the same. I'd have counted Sinedd's vote for 14. O-O, since there is no rule stating that you can't vote for a move early, as long as you specify the move you're voting for. Accordingly, the result would have been a 3-3 tie between O-O and O-O-O, which would have been broken by throwing out LonelyCat's vote for O-O (so in this case, the move played would have been the same).
You're the referee here, so your interpretation of the rules counts, but in that case I suggest you edit the rules in the OP to explicitly require voting to be done during the relevant turn and not ahead of time.
The rules are clear on that issue (Section: Tallying votes, point 4, subpoint 2):
Only valid votes are tallied. These are votes that
conform exactly to the specified format Note: the reason for this is to make votes easily tallyable via search. Therefore, case can be ignored, since most default search functions, especially in browsers, ignore case. Everything else about the format must be exact.
are posted by a member of the team whose turn it is to move
appear in posts that were last edited before the deadline for that move.
14. 0-0 - Sinedd Sinedd's vote came when there was still Black's turn.
For what it's worth, according to my interpretation of the rules, the tally would have come out differently, though the outcome would have been the same. I'd have counted Sinedd's vote for 14. O-O, since there is no rule stating that you can't vote for a move early, as long as you specify the move you're voting for. Accordingly, the result would have been a 3-3 tie between O-O and O-O-O, which would have been broken by throwing out LonelyCat's vote for O-O (so in this case, the move played would have been the same).
You're the referee here, so your interpretation of the rules counts, but in that case I suggest you edit the rules in the OP to explicitly require voting to be done during the relevant turn and not ahead of time.
The rules are clear on that issue (Section: Tallying votes, point 4, subpoint 2):
Only valid votes are tallied. These are votes that
conform exactly to the specified format Note: the reason for this is to make votes easily tallyable via search. Therefore, case can be ignored, since most default search functions, especially in browsers, ignore case. Everything else about the format must be exact.
are posted by a member of the team whose turn it is to move
appear in posts that were last edited before the deadline for that move.
At the time the last vote was tallied, Sinedd was a member of the team whose turn it was to move. However, I don't suppose it matters much, as you've made your interpretation of the rules clear in any case.
To the game: I was rather tempted to go for your Knight pawn with 14...Qg5+, 15...Qxg2. However, after giving that move due consideration, I came to the conclusion that the g-pawn was poisoned. Hence, the quieter ##move 14... Qd8-e7. (Had you castled Kingside, on the other hand, I very likely would have gone for the opposite Knight pawn with 14...Qb6+, 15...Qxb2.)
On October 01 2013 18:18 wingpawn wrote: The rules of the match are now updated to avoid further confusion in cases like Sinedd's.
DO NOT vote for White moves when it's still Black's turn. Votes like that will be counted as illegal.
To clarify: if you make such vote, you can always post again during White's turn and have your vote counted as legal.
Thanks for the update. It can't hurt to make things as clear as possible.
By the way, I don't know how you feel about discussing the game with your opponent, so don't feel obliged to answer this question if you'd rather play your cards close to your chest, but I can't help but notice that you're not immediately ready with your move this time. Had you expected me to play a different move than the one I played? Or were you anticipating this one, but still want to take a little longer to consider your reply?
Fair's fair: since I ask a question like that, I'll volunteer the same info from the Black POV: moves 10-12 went as we expected (though, to be sure, those were semi-forced). 13. Qd5 was a move we'd considered, but we didn't think it likeliest; Calgar expected 13. Qd2, while I thought you might play Qe3 and/or Qf2. When you did play 13. Qd5, I was sure that you intended to follow up with 14. c5, though I guess I'd have called 14. O-O-O your second-likeliest move. I was surprised that you even came close to playing 14. O-O, as that seems to drop a pawn (14...Qb6+ 15. Kh1 Qxb2) without very much compensation as far as I could see.
Again, don't feel obliged to reciprocate, and regardless of whether you do, you're welcome to the info about our side of things, as I don't feel that it's overly relevant to the current position.
You have to understand my position, qrs. I'm in a team with 18 cutthroat, bloothirsty mercenaries, including the most fearsome names like killerdog, DeathDyingDoomKiller and megapants. I think it will be best if I keep my mouth shut about our analysis.
On October 01 2013 19:10 wingpawn wrote: You have to understand my position, qrs. I'm in a team with 18 cutthroat, bloothirsty mercenaries, including the most fearsome names like killerdog, DeathDyingDoomKiller and megapants. I think it will be best if I keep my mouth shut about our analysis.
As I said, perfectly understood, and no offense taken. Consider the info I vouchsafed about ours a free gift.
Aargh, something distracted me tonight and I forgot to play a move on time.
##Move 19... Qe7-h4 and I will leave it to wingpawn whether to play the move 1.25 hours late or to take the 24-hour extension that the rules mandate, strictly speaking.
Are you guys still discussing the game on qt? I'm a supernoob so I'm not sure if I want to join the team but I think there's a lot interesting about this position.
On November 04 2013 19:16 Malinor wrote: ##VOTE 23. gxf5
Your turn is over.
Honestly, I don't care. I am busy working most of the time right now. I open this thread when I do find the time / have the mental state of mind to make a move. If that is too early or too late, then that's just bad luck. It's not as if I am comfusing my fellow players, since there basically are none.
I know, you didn't make the rules. I don't have the feeling the rules make participating easy though.
Gee, it's not the end of the world to just check the clock in the first post and see if it's at 0, is it? It is a little confusing when there are invalid votes in the thread: that means I have to check the time they were posted and figure out whether they were before the deadline or after it.
Not that I should talk, I suppose, since I'm 20 minutes late myself. Sorry. ##Move 23... b7-b5
Why is there so little discussion, is it happening somewhere else? anything heres my discussion bit XD (dont kill me if i have something wrong, havnt played in 2 years) How i think game will proceed + Show Spoiler +
I think from the position white is going to come out with a nice lead and heres my thought process
So atm its blacks turn, and black's obvious move is to take the pawn but with which piece, bishop or rook(moving bishop back to D7 is terrible for black after Knight to D5 threating two forks on E7 and F6, also blacks bishop becomes terrible(only move would result in disjointing the rooks D7 to C6).
So taking the pawn is the only real option, however black can not take with Bishop, because after Bishop takes white plays Knight to D5 this time blocking the rooks defense for the bishop and threating a fork on E7, no move i see can save the bishop or prevent the lost of the rook.
So that forces rook take pawn on F5, which white simply plays RxF5 and black plays BxF5 (kinda have to take) after that, white gains a good hold on this game (according to logic i could have missed something) so white plays Bishop to G4 pinning the black bishop (rook is behind) and with no other piece ,aside from rook being able to defend, blacks bishop must take BxG4 which white responds with rook to G1, (why rook to G1? because of the H pawn takes, black can play B5xC4 and u end up losing a pawn) so rook to G1 will pin the bishop which you can take with check IF black plays B5 to C4 to defend ur pawn on C4, if black plays a move like Knight to H6 to defend the bishop you just take with HxG4. All through out this time knight can always jump to D5 to pressure a fork or just gain some nice control.
Okay i definitely want in on the white team discussion :O after this move omg so interesting Theres just so many threats after knight to D5, all the forks, F6 E7 B6, the pawn move B4, even traps the rook (as either king moves to avoid some of the forks, or the rook on C8 moves under the bishop which in that case B3 to B4 traps the C5 rook)
On November 14 2013 16:58 Shock710 wrote: Okay i definitely want in on the white team discussion :O after this move omg so interesting Theres just so many threats after knight to D5, all the forks, F6 E7 B6, the pawn move B4, even traps the rook (as either king moves to avoid some of the forks, or the rook on C8 moves under the bishop which in that case B3 to B4 traps the C5 rook)
On November 15 2013 12:09 TanGeng wrote: How did we all think it was move 24....? All the analysis says move 26 too. LOL
26. Nc3-d5
must be me who started the trend XD since i made the first vote and I copied the format from move 24, changing the move without changing the move number @@
Sorry for the slightly late move again. Was traveling today. Anyway, the game is starting to look bad for Black, but let's keep trying to hold on with the ##move 26... Kg8-f8.
On December 11 2013 15:27 Shock710 wrote: its not blacks turn yet tho XD
Yes, it was. Check when I posted it.
oh the 48 hour thing? ah i thought we had to wait for wingpawn to update before voting, cause it makes it better to read nvm ^_^
Yeah, the turn starts always at 15:00 KST. The catch is that 15:00 KST is 03:00 AM in Poland, so I'm always updating the thread few hours later, after I get up. But making moves or voting before the update is perfectly fine.
Good game, fellows. I haven't looked over the game with a computer yet, but my thoughts just from playing it: at the start of move 18, I liked the Black position. The ensuing moves I made for Black were probably all suboptimal. In retrospect, I wish I'd closed off the Kingside with ...f4 when I had a chance, but at the time, I still didn't see a strong White threat on the Kingside—on the contrary, I didn't want to close off play there too soon, because I was still playing for a win.
19...Qh4 was pretty clearly a bad move in retrospect, I think. At the time, we thought it would weaken White a little on the Kingside by inducing h3 and pinning the g-pawn to the defense of the h-pawn. We completely overlooked the tactical move 22. g4 that White played. Only after it was played did we realize that the hanging h-pawn could not be taken in this case.
The losing move, in my opinion, was likely 23...b5. We played it without much analysis. After, 24. PxP, we analyzed more and calculated that taking the pawn back with the Rook would lead to an endgame wherein we were down a pawn and had very bad chances, in our opinion. 25...Bd7 was nothing more than a desperate attempt to avoid the loss we saw coming in the hopes that we could find something better in a line we hadn't analyzed much yet, but as the game shows, it offered nothing better.
Regarding the game: I feel that playing 12...e5 was a serious error as your f7-Knight eventually got tied down to the defense of d6 and you had no more chance to control d5-square with a pawn. I completely agree that ...f4 would be a strong move when you had a chance to play it, especially since we played quite dubious 15. Rhf1. 19...Qh4 was very confusing and probably lost you too much time to hold the game after exchanges. (I'm not sure anymore what was wrong about recapturing on f5, though). Anyway, we did lots of work regarding 29...Ke7 (instead of 29...Kg7 which loses outright) and there would be probably lots of work for us to do to convert the advantage even though we were quite confident that we're winning an Exchange.
EDIT: Today, I'm departing for Christmas, but I made some notes and probably will publish a blog with the detailed analysis of the game once I come back. Thanks to all participants! Merry Christmas and a Happy Checkmate!
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