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Korea (South)17174 Posts
This is a word of warning about poker. Most people hide their losses and exaggerate how much they win. Poker is incredibly hard and everyone should not jump into it so fast. Someone on PM asked me some detailed questions about my poker career and I wrote a pretty long response so I figured I'd let everyone read it. The point of this should be to warn you all about poker and let you know just how hard it is and how long it takes to succeed. I hope it will discourage most of you and encourage a select few. Anyways enjoy:
I started poker about two years ago. Dudey (ilnp mockturtle whatever) came to me, elky, nazgul, and NTT on b.net and told us to download this poker program to watch him play a tournament. At first the game seemed rather dull to me with a lot of luck involved. But I was very very lucky to know Dudey, he bludgeoned it into my skull that poker is much like starcraft except with money. The skilled player will win. Plus he gave me an outlined detail of what hands to play preflop from what positions in order to play "tight." With this knowledge I tackled the penny tables for a long long long time. I would get furious at the 10$ pots I lost AA vs KQo allin preflop to trip queens and then I would tilt and constantly lose my money.
For the first 3 months I lost 450$ playing penny tables and a little bit of .1.25 (.05/.1 did not exist at that time) on Stars. I never really dreamed that poker could be used as a source of income, especially one that would allow me to make in one month more than my parents make in an entire year combined after 5 years of university each. Anyways I didn't play poker a lot, maybe 1-3 hours a day because I was still very much involved with starcraft at that time and was focused on winning WCG USA (which i did that year yay).
After about a year of playing I had managed to cashout maybe 2-3k by playing the .01/.02 - .25/.5 tables but I still got a factory job for 8.50$/hour before getting ready to go to college. It was my first real job and I went into it thinking that it was something I had to do for my life. But as I looked around at all these hillbilly unintelligent people working at this HONDA plant I was like, what the HELL AM I DOING? I have much more potential than this, sure life is hard but it shouldn't be that hard for me.
Anyways I started college and thats when I started playing poker A LOT. I would play online several hours per day and then play for 4-8 hours every night in my dormitory 20$ buyin game. I was making enough money to get by and help pay for college books and pay for any little random items I'd want on a whim, but still I never ever envisioned myself being able to play poker pro. I still really felt like I had to do the usual thing...go to college and get a degree and get a real job and play poker on the side as a hobby for a little more income.
But halfway through college I had sort of an epiphany. Every day I would sit there and think about life and why I was at this crappy university doing stuff in school that I have no desire or reason to do. Why do all American kids follow this same path? I didn't want to be normal. This was actually right around the time that Elky told me about a spot being open on the hexatron dream team. I realized that I hated school, did not give a crap about my classes, and that all I was doing was poker. So I decided to step outside the box by dropping out of college and going to korea to play starcraft. This was around April 04.
By that time I had earned a total of around 10-13k off of poker 3k of which was from a 3rd place finish in a real life ohio championship of poker tournament. Looking back at one hand in that tournament makes me realize how little control we have in life. Life is like a river pushing you forward all you can do is sway your boat a little bit in whatever direction you want, but ultimately the river is going to pull you along (boat, river, pushing...blah puns not intended). The hand is this: at one point with 20 people left I was short stacked and had to go allin with 77 and got called by AK, AKx flop, x turn, river 7. He was the chip leader and would have busted me if I didn't land that 7 on the river. When I came to Korea I had a total of 3000$ to my name. If I didn't have that 3k I would have never came to korea. If I never came to Korea I'm fairly sure I would have never truly succeeded at poker like I am now because I would have never had the needed pressure that forced me to succeed.
Still...by the time Korea came I viewed poker as something that could keep me going here while I tried to become good at starcraft and get a salary. When my funds were running low I started playing poker again and I made just enough to survive in korea by playing maybe 1-2 hours a day. Then as my korea report says everything went all bad and I was low on money. I went two weeks without losing at all. I played .5/1 with 400$ made that into 1000...played 1/2 made that into 3000...played 2/4 made that into 7k...then stayed on 2/4 3/6 NL for a long time. Yeah I wasn't even following my own bankroll management advice...I was very desperate and lucky that I did not take many bad beats.
This is when I realized it was possible to make bank just by playing an internet card game. Plus I was seeing elky make ridiculous amounts of money too. I made 35k over the course of 2 months on 2/4NL and realized I needed to quit starcraft, use that money to move out and get my own place, and get serious about poker. So I did that...but once again ran into some trouble. I was so free because I had my own place and didn't have any manager hovering over me that I was out drinking every night and going to clubs. When I woke up every day I was so hung over and tired that my mind couldn't really focus...I was still up overall but at one point my online bankroll was 3k and I had 12k debt with only 5k in my bank account in USA that I could use. I had spent so much money here that I was virtually broke if you considered the debt I had from poker loans during my bad 2 week streak.
Epiphany #2: I needed to stop going out for a while. I did that and began the run of my life. I was winning day after day after day. Killed off my debt and got up to 15k bankroll and started playing 5/10 NL. I was improving as a player even more than I had ever imagined. Then after some more earnings I moved up to 5/10 + 10/20NL and made a lot in two months.
Basically what all that says is: I did not try to make myself a poker pro, I was just someone who really enjoyed it and saw it as a game of skill, a skill that I wanted to master. I had no delusions of grandeur and I still thought I was going to have to get a real job the "normal" way. But the circumstances in my life (Hating college + being in korea but SC being horrible + wanting to stay here + having no money left almost) all forced me to get good. I had lots of pressure and all I did was think about poker and how to get better. Somehow it worked out.
So this is what you need to realize: Odds are you will not make much at poker. All of my starcraft friends who have been playing poker as long as me all still are decent at best, they can win a little bit and think they are good but considering the time they put into it and the stakes they play, they are pretty bad. Of course there are other SC players like Elky who are doing very well, but the vast majority are not.
If you want to win at poker this is what you need. You need extreme patience. If theres a rule to follow when it comes to bankroll management you need to have the personality to follow it no matter how angry you get or how small of stakes it feels if you have to move down. You have to be emotionless. I can lose an 8.3k pot when i'm a 3:1 favorite and honestly not care at all. You have to be the kind of person that takes satisfaction in being mentally superior to your opponent and view a pot like that where you got allin and they lucked out as a win for you, not a loss. As long as you're playing properly and getting your money in when you're ahead thats all that matters.
And realize...I'm one of the most successful bw players at poker (well top 10 probably there are alot of players that started before me that are doing amazingly well too but they weren't really known bw players) and I have not been doing it very long. I think I'm very good and know how to win but realistically It's taken two years and I've only been good enough to pull huge money for 3-4 months. Nothing is banked yet, who knows I could lose it all somehow still? I can only really claim to be a pokergod if I can manage to keep this up for another year and make 500k atleast. I've come so far and been through so much poker-wise yet still can only say I'm in the infancy of my 'career'.
Ideal personality for poker: Calm, Emotionless, Confident, Intelligent, Realistic. But most imporant is seeing it as a game and not as a way of making money. I failed at starcraft because after a short time I didn't enjoy it. When you don't enjoy it you can't be good at it. Even though earlier I said poker is a way of making money and should not be viewed as fun, what should be fun is outplaying/outsmarting the other guy, not raking in a 5k pot. If you're a hot-head or you're not able to do simple-medium math computations in your head very fast do not play poker. If your mind does not automatically remember every single little detail and bet amount of every hand you played during the day, don't play poker. If you have played starcraft for a really long time and could never really get the hang of the strategy in it...do not play poker. But if you think you have what it takes go for it. Just take it incredibly slow, move up as slow as you possibly can, and perhaps the 2015 WSOP final table will be 100% TL.netters.
So, be careful. There were several critical moments in my career that if they did or didn't happen I could have ended up broke. Sometimes great players go on bad beat streaks for weeks at a time and if you cannot handle this it can seriously screw up your life. I am LUCKY as HELL that I did not have any of these periods at certain points of my poker career. And I am also very very lucky to be friends with lots of other poker players so I could attain infinite loans from them in order to win back my losses. Most of you will not have this.
Beware fishes.
Thank you for reading and good luck.
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imma read this when im not busy with a bunch of high speed tables
but i can tell from the beginning already this is prolly somethin alot of newbies need to read cuz poker is not a way to free money
i have practiced/played so much to get to where i am
and just because u play for a month and end with a bunch of profit does not mean you're a good player
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I agree with rekrul, if you arent a lot smarter and more patient than the average dont play. Its a lot harder than you think(mainly because of the rake).
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Norway28706 Posts
so true
I remember when I first started playing, meat gave me $50 and I followed his simple advice with what hands to play etc, and I managed to get up to $450 in just a week or two. I then started thinking "wow this is easy" but what happened? I caught a couple of badbeats and ended up tilting seriously, dropping down to in a day or two (was a long time ago so I honestly don't remember the exact details) 100 and then joyoing up and down a little bit until I finally lost it all.
after that I took a long break, now I'm playing a bit again, and I kinda got the same revelation this time too; first I got up to $190 from $50 in no time, then I dropped down to 100, joyo'ed and eventually dropped down to $4.50, got up to $60 from that and now I have $50 again.
but considering how little I have actually played I should expect to be a losing player anyway.
I'm starting to improve though, yesterday I actually folded AJ on an Axx flop cause I thought he had AK or AQ and whoopdedum he actually did have AK. which would be perfectly normal in a higher stake game but not in a 10+1 sitngo.
personally I don't even have a desire to be a huge winning player though. if I can gain $15 an hour while having fun that would be plenty for me, considering I also work full time and I don't really ever intend on not working/going to school for an extended period of time. (like more than a year anyway.  )
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good read.
when's yer book coming out Dan?
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"If you want to win at poker this is what you need. You need extreme patience. If theres a rule to follow when it comes to bankroll management you need to have the personality to follow it no matter how angry you get or how small of stakes it feels if you have to move down. You have to be emotionless. I can lose an 8.3k pot when i'm a 3:1 favorite and honestly not care at all. You have to be the kind of person that takes satisfaction in being mentally superior to your opponent and view a pot like that where you got allin and they lucked out as a win for you, not a loss. As long as you're playing properly and getting your money in when you're ahead thats all that matters. "
this is very, very true
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Very interesting to read. Maybe even more so than your experience in korea. Well, maybe not. Poker is still like a new phenomeon for me, and I'm interested, and have watched it on TV a few times, and would like to try it, but I just can't bring myself to lose 50 dollars on it to get started, heh
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yeah a very good read, thanks
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Sweden33719 Posts
Calm, Emotionless, Confident, Intelligent, Realistic
No.
NO.
Yes and no.
I guess I could put a yes at this one.
NO.
Okay, I should not play poker :D
Good read.
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I believe the plural of "fish" is not "fishes", it's also "fish"
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I think I can be good at poker... Ill do my best.
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Norway28706 Posts
I had a definite method of play at first but I was unable to handle badbeats (which made me tilt) and in addition the feeling that I was becoming better made me play riskier and bluff more because I felt skilled enough to do so.
which I was not, because I had barely played poker.
and froz is right!
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how is dudeys poker playing going these days?
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Damn nice post, by the way. You are one inspiring motherfucker, rekrul.
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On May 13 2005 04:38 emerton wrote:
how is dudeys poker playing going these days?
ilnp.com, theres a link to his blog. some interesting reads when boared ;O
and, im moving to korea to play poker soon. 
nice post rek, gl with everything
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Netherlands4511 Posts
the article is nice and all but this is what people are gonna remember from it :
'made over over 120k in two months'
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On May 13 2005 05:14 ret wrote:
the article is nice and all but this is what people are gonna remember from it :
'made over over 120k in two months'
yea, alot of people will. i know that i expericnced the titl back when i was playing pacific poker, made like 300$ of a 20$ BR in 2 nights, and then was on tilt for the next month or so ( - 500$ i think, losing the 300, and a bunch of buy ins)
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Nice article/story.
On May 13 2005 01:07 Jim wrote:
I agree with rekrul, if you arent a lot smarter and more patient than the average dont play. Its a lot harder than you think(mainly because of the rake).
Yes, the rake makes people who are actually a little better than the average, lose money in the long run. It's really disgusting how much money the big poker sites earn, compared to how low the costs are of running a simple software on a server, and moving some money around.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
btw what i don't get is if poker can be so rewarding, why don't firms develop super poker computers and have them play at these sites and make tons of cash?
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On May 13 2005 05:19 ret wrote:
btw what i don't get is if poker can be so rewarding, why don't firms develop super poker computers and have them play at these sites and make tons of cash?
Poker is not that simple. There are unknown factors in poker which can't be calculated by a computer.
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On May 13 2005 04:36 FroZZoR wrote:
I believe the plural of "fish" is not "fishes", it's also "fish"
if you're talking about poker, yes. if you're talking about the animal, not necessarily.
multiple fish of one species are called "fish".
however, multiple fish of multiple species are called "fishes"
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On May 13 2005 05:19 ret wrote:
btw what i don't get is if poker can be so rewarding, why don't firms develop super poker computers and have them play at these sites and make tons of cash?
Well that wouldnt be fair, would it? :S
:p
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outrageously intelligent: yer
emotionless $ calm: i'm cold as ice
confident: if i can't do it, homie ... who can ?
realistic: uhm.... HELL NAW
i'm gonna give it a try
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poker is honestly just too complex for a program to be made that will play on par with top human players
perhaps in the future(not any time soon though)
however, there is currently a program(and a better one is being developed) that can play "decent"
see: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14642&m_id=65559
there also is a current bot that is able to profit at low limit fixed holdem games, which uses the model mentioned in the above link
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Nice post Rek. Very enjoyable to read ;D I think I kinda got what it takes except for the fact that I'm really impatient + I don't want to get addicted to it ;P
I was wondering.. Can you actually ever stop playing now you've been so succesful? If for whatever reason you had to stop playing poker, do you think you could?
(kinda had to think of 'rounders' with matt damon after reading your story -_-)
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Norway28706 Posts
yeah low limit fixed holdem should be possible to play with a script.
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On May 13 2005 05:43 travis wrote:poker is honestly just too complex for a program to be made that will play on par with top human players perhaps in the future(not any time soon though) however, there is currently a program(and a better one is being developed) that can play "decent" see: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14642&m_id=65559there also is a current bot that is able to profit at low limit fixed holdem games, which uses the model mentioned in the above link
wanna copy/paste artice and display it here, i cant access that page from work (fierwall restictions). and i feel like reading it ;D thx
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http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14642&m_id=65559
I'm Stoked About STACKED
by Daniel Negreanu
Less than a year ago, I was approached with an idea to do a poker video game. I’d already listened to several other similar ideas and wasn’t too gung ho about it. Luckily for me, though, I listened to what was said this time, and it blew me away.
Who would have thought that poker would make it to Xbox and PlayStation 2? I’ve always been a gamer, and the idea of actually being a character in a video game sounded way too cool to pass up.
Over the next year, I plan on doing several other poker-related projects, but this one just might be the most exciting for me. Rather than have me fumble through the particulars, I decided to interview Ken Woo, a partner at Myelin, who knows everything there is to know about the game:
Daniel Negreanu: So, what will be unique about this game and why will poker players be excited about STACKED?
Ken Woo: Poker players, and the readers of Card Player in particular, will be excited about STACKED because it’s the first poker video game that focuses on Texas hold’em as it is played at the highest levels across the country. We see poker as an emergent sport rather than just a televised phenomenon, and we’ve invested significant resources to make a game that embodies this new generation of poker. STACKED is all about realism, advanced strategy, and a level of competition that would impress even the most accomplished poker player.
DN: How did you guys come up with the concept for STACKED
KW: As gamers, we looked at everything that was happening with the popularity of poker and basically said that we needed to make a product that does the game justice. But in order to do so, we knew that we would have to really focus on every detail of the game in order to re-create the intensity and excitement of professional poker.
DN: What is the hardest aspect of poker to translate into a video game?
KW: Definitely the artificial intelligence. More than any other game, poker, and no-limit hold’em in particular, puts an emphasis on instinct. While computers are great at probability and statistics, knowing when to go all in from early position is something that is very difficult to program. That’s why many products don’t even have no-limit play as an option, and the ones that do have you playing a game that only looks like poker. With STACKED, we have an AI solution that is not only challenging, but will actually improve your real-world game.
DN: What makes you so sure that STACKED will be an improvement over past poker video games?
KW: I think previous poker games have been lacking because they are based on an outdated perception of the game. They are about poker within a larger casino experience, complete with slot machines and Elvis impersonators. A big part of what has made hold’em so popular is its depth and complexity, and that just can’t be addressed in a generic gambling product. With STACKED, our focus and commitment to hold’em, and hold’em alone, has resulted in a product that will have poker fans saying, “Finally.”
DN: What aspect of STACKED are you personally most excited about?
KW: Personally, I’m really excited about its multiplayer online features. Don’t get me wrong, I like playing on Internet sites as much as the next guy, but hold’em is perfect for the pure competition of playing for bragging rights on your living room couch. I’m also looking forward to some fierce competition against hundreds of STACKED users in the multitable tournaments.
DN: STACKED uses a type of artificial intelligence called “Pokibot.” What makes Pokibot such a poker powerhouse?
KW: Poki is based on more than 10 years of university research in machine learning and advanced game theory that was focused on creating a world-class poker opponent. Basically, what makes Poki so special is its ability to alter its tactics to adapt to your playing style in real time. Most poker games have static AI that can be cracked within a few hours of play. But because Poki is always changing, it makes for hours of challenging play while teaching you the most important elements of hold’em, perception and deception.
DN: How do the online tournaments in STACKED simulate playing in a real tournament?
KW: Let me start with scale. We’re using exclusive technology to allow for hundreds and up to thousands of simultaneous competitors in our multitable tournaments, a first for poker video games. In addition, we’ve come up with a competitive league system that ranks players according to performance rather than bankrolls, and this will showcase the truly skilled players. This will drive an elite online tournament schedule, in which only the best of the best will have the opportunity to compete against you and the other STACKED pros.
DN: How will STACKED help players improve their game?
KW: Primarily through the in-game tutorial system. We’ve been very lucky to have the level of involvement and commitment from you in creating a tutorial system that captures your experiences and insights from years of winning at the highest levels. The best part is that you do such a great job of talking about hold’em in an innovative and relevant style that I personally believe STACKED has become the best poker tool for anyone who wants to get serious about the game.
DN: Flattery will get you everywhere! Besides myself, who are the other professional players in the game and what are their roles?
KW: We are really excited to feature Carlos Mortensen, Erick Lindgren, Evelyn Ng, Jennifer Harman, Josh Arieh, and David Williams in the game, as well. They will basically be video game bosses in STACKED, and to do so, we’ve spent a lot of time interviewing each of them in order to tune an advanced version of Poki to mimic their quality of play. We’ve also captured tons of video and audio so that you’ll really feel like you’re sitting at the final table with our STACKED stars.
DN: Thanks for your time, Ken. When will everyone be able to get STACKED?
KW: This summer on consoles and the PC, then on the Sony PlayStation Portable in the fall.
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Great post Rek.I am fish and started playing seriouly a few days ago..maybe there is sth bad with me because You inspired me not discouraged.Thanks.
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sorry I am not gifted with languages thanks for correcting ; )
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On May 13 2005 01:54 hasuwar wrote:
Very interesting to read. Maybe even more so than your experience in korea. Well, maybe not. Poker is still like a new phenomeon for me, and I'm interested, and have watched it on TV a few times, and would like to try it, but I just can't bring myself to lose 50 dollars on it to get started, heh
Agreed is there anywhere that you can play with NO stakes (just points or something). I understand that this will be very different than the actual game. However I'd like to get a basic hold on things before proceeding to very small stakes.
I"m not looking to become a professional, just someone that plays sucessfully (ie. wins more than loses) as an enjoyable hobby.
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I wonder why my signature is fucked up -_- someone must have messed around with it or maybe it has been fucked since whenever and I just never noticed it ^_^;
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On May 13 2005 06:46 pooper-scooper wrote:
Agreed is there anywhere that you can play with NO stakes (just points or something).QUOTE]
Most sites have got playmoney-tables. PokerStars for example
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all the sites have "play points" u register, and get a certain ammount of points, and pay with it. theres alot of people playing with play money. pokerstars has it, so does partypoker.com and pacificpoker.com and basically all poker sites have them.
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lol look at my answer. im stupid ^^
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but you should not play these playmoney tables, since it's not serious at all, try to play freerolls instead, and if u have a luckey day u might win a few $ and from there make ur way up on the 0.01/0.2 tables
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On May 13 2005 04:36 FroZZoR wrote:
I believe the plural of "fish" is not "fishes", it's also "fish"
In my classes prof. was talking about the extinction of fishes, and she told us that you use fishes only when you refering to difference species of fishes, if you talking about 1 kind of fish, then you use fish as in plural.
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computers could easily make money at fixed hold'em
the profits are big for one player though, but not worth the time and effort investment of a team of programmers making such a great program for NL, especialy since it probably wouldn't even win on the highest stakes
you people saying it's impossible are underestimating computers and programmers though
also you'd have to be amazing at poker and very very good at programming, how many people have those qualifications? hardest mission ever with way too few reward
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Great post Rek.
When I started at Poker, I lost a lot. I'd often play shitty cards, made bad calls on draws, and lost soooo many times to dominated hands. I'd always put it down to "I'm the unluckiest person in the world", but in reality, I just sucked.
If there is one crucial piece of advice I can give: Buy a book, or talk about how to play properly with people who know. I cannot stress how much better this will make you at poker. It's like taking up BW and learning it from Boxer rather than 0 clutter players (well maybe not that extremem, but you get me)
The best book I can recommend for low level players is: ' Winning at Low Limit Hold'em' by Lee Jones (the manager of Pokerstars). It teaches you the importance of things such as position, check raise, how to play when you hit sets, straights, top pairs etc. Really good read. It'll certainly have you winning at .05/.1 in no time at all. It's only about $25 US, but you'll win your money back in no time.
You may be tempted to buy Sklansky and Malmuth's poker book first as it's probably the best out there, but don't. The shit they talk about requires a fairly advanced knowledge of poker, and is best suited once your a steady winner at the lower limit tables. Hope this helped!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 13 2005 06:48 Smorrie wrote:
I wonder why my signature is fucked up -_- someone must have messed around with it or maybe it has been fucked since whenever and I just never noticed it ^_^;
Your signature has said that for the past what? 3 years ?
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On May 13 2005 00:49 Rekrul wrote:
So this is what you need to realize: Odds are you will not make much at poker. All of my starcraft friends who have been playing poker as long as me all still are decent at best, they can win a little bit and think they are good but considering the time they put into it and the stakes they play, they are pretty bad. Of course there are other SC players like Elky who are doing very well, but the vast majority are not.
A very interesting read and thank you for sharing it with us but do you honestly believe that a decent disciplined player would not make more than the 8$ / hour that you made at your factory job? If someone who plays more than a year cant make that, then he either overestimate his skills or he doesnt have the qualities that you mentioned.
I am not trying to say that everything is easy but compared with most of the job alternatives for a young disciplined intelligent person, poker is very easy at low levels. Its nice to try to discourage the 15 year olds or others who cant play poker because they lack the needed qualities, losing their money (although both our posts will probably have the opposite result) but its better to say things as they are. Its not yours or tl.net's fault if someone who shouldnt play poker, starts playing because he was inspired by some posts. Also there are always the alternative methods to make money from poker with bonuses and rakeback.
You said most things as they are i dont disaggree with you, i just made an additional comment.
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On May 13 2005 07:20 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 04:36 FroZZoR wrote:
I believe the plural of "fish" is not "fishes", it's also "fish" In my classes prof. was talking about the extinction of fishes, and she told us that you use fishes only when you refering to difference species of fishes, if you talking about 1 kind of fish, then you use fish as in plural.
i said it first!!
owned lLolol
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On May 13 2005 08:21 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 06:48 Smorrie wrote:
I wonder why my signature is fucked up -_- someone must have messed around with it or maybe it has been fucked since whenever and I just never noticed it ^_^; Your signature has said that for the past what? 3 years ?
Yeah, I know. Somehow there was an 'a' missing (it has strong technique), but I fixed it now. Found that quote once at one of the most useless websites ever -> http://www.alcyone.com/oo/ ^^
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On May 13 2005 07:58 GroT wrote:
also you'd have to be amazing at poker and very very good at programming, how many people have those qualifications? hardest mission ever with way too few reward
Barry Greenstein, now all we have to do is convince a guy that makes millions every week to write a bot for us to be rich too.
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Rekrul Hellmuth's Play Poker Like the Pro-gamers.
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so last week i dropped a g
it makes me giggle
kekekekekekekekekekeke
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what a great day not only did i double my playmoney bankroll i also won 3 public games on europe.
You are an inspiration for us all Rekrul :D
On a more serious note i wish i made 8 $/hour. I just might go read a poker book :D
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www.everestpoker.com
You can play for free at the "Shasta" tables and win real money ($0.05) that you can use as buy-in to other sng's.
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Everest sucks. They banned me for nothing, after I went from $2 to $70 dollars. Not a big deal, really, but why just ban accounts like that :/
Expekt über Alles.
Also if you see this, Dealer, I'd like to know if you are DealerMan@Expekt.
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What's the best site to start and play for money? Pokerstars?
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France1270 Posts
nice read.
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether???
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because you always have more impulsive gamblers then serious people capable of patience and skills, imo
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Are there any disadvantages of playing for play money as a beginner (other than not being to win real money ofcourse) ?
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On May 13 2005 11:24 BG1 wrote:
Are there any disadvantages of playing for play money as a beginner (other than not being to win real money ofcourse) ?
people dont take the game serious AT ALL, and you can always reset your play money, so people dont care usually, thus resulting in 4 people going Allin every hand ;(
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On May 13 2005 11:24 BG1 wrote:
Are there any disadvantages of playing for play money as a beginner (other than not being to win real money ofcourse) ?
you can't play poker, you're not allowed to. If you can't learn from your hands, then there is no reason to even consider play money as practice
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On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
nice read.
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether???
lotsa fish
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and Benny from what i understood the whole point of rek's post was that it was like broodwar. You gotta be a "pro" to make teh real money.
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On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
nice read.
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether???
Rakes. The "house" steals copious amounts of money in the process. People who lose all their money, re-deposits.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
Only play with play money to learn the cards. After that, move to tiny penny stakes.
I started with 10$ or so, and I just played 2c/4c fixed limit, from there I went up to 140$, then I went down again massive :p, I haven't lost anything yet though, right now my bankroll is around 25$ ;<
It's all a big learning process. And this was a very nice read, I was at points frustrated how my bankroll didn't go up more as it did once (when I got 80$ in one day on 25c/50c). Now I know why, it just takes more time for me to become better I guess...
I always see myself tilting after losing some bad beats, I'm always overconfident on my cards when I'm losing, I'm always like, hey, I'm the better player here, then I end up losing more, because I'm actually not. -.-
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On May 13 2005 11:48 TvP On Guillo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
nice read.
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether??? Rakes. The "house" steals copious amounts of money in the process. People who lose all their money, re-deposits.
you're point about the rake only helps is point.
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i make people fold at playmoney
haha
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This can be added to the articles section, maybe under Miscellaneous
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Nice read. Excellent advice about approaching a losing hand from the standpoint that you (the player) still outplayed them.
And about a computer program playing, I think it would be much easier than people think. It wouldn't take a supercomputer to play by-the-book limit (ie. making it 4 to go everytime with top 15 hands pre-flop and raising with top pair etc.), which is really an easy grind-it-out way to make money, not very exciting unless you're playing 4-8 tables at once, but profitable nonetheless. In fact, when I play limit I feel very much like a robot with my strategy (ultra-tight) except for the occasional blind steal. NL a whole different story, and it would be much harder to make a succesful program.
Thanks for the read, and like Puerto said, the real money's in a book :D cheers.
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Nice read.
It's funny here is my very little story about poker :
1- Why is there poker add on team liquid? Poker suck ( In my mind, poker was only 5 card draw)
2- WTF??? POKER ON TSN!!( Canada's ESPN) WTF POKER'S NOT A SPORT!?
3- Boy they sure win a lot of cash.
4- Poker add on tl.net ? "the big poker thread" ( 5 millions post thread about poker).
5- Wow they are talking about skills and such about poker.
6- eh nazgul says you can easily win more than 7$/H (Did I hate my job? YES I DID)
7- I wanna play poker.
So I began to read stuff on internet. I read a lot of stuff( hell I did watch a freaking lot of BW replay in order to learn) and I was determined to try it in the christmas break.
I try for a month : first 2 week, 10 $ to 200 buck. Last 2 week : 200 buck to 1200
Tl.netter poker players, it is because of you that I began poker.
.
.
.
Thanx you.
* warning : you gotta put a freaking lot of time in poker in order to become good. 10 % of player actually win I think. Also, no emotion, patience, fast brainer( unless you wanna play 1 table and be even more frustrated with short term result), mathematical mind, not-supertitious--> supertitious people are the good, enjoyable fish!
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Dependiing on my mood I enjoy playing only 1 table. I get to know my players exact timming better, and with my desperate case of ADD , which is unmedicated, I find it easier to bring in a stable profit. Also I will leave my other tables if one player is changing the mood of my most profitable table by ramming and jamming more then 50% of the pots. Being a loose aggressive player I find it safer to focus my attention to that one table and make 1 call for 50-100 dollars (not super high limits, only 50 dollar tables at 888.com) then use a tight aggressive style and play big pots with a higher risk factor, yes I know that is debatable, but preflop scoring KK against a loose players AA is a probllem more of the tight aggressive then loose aggressive, .... (my reasoning for this is that as a loose aggressive player I pick up enough pots to pay for my one GIANT fuck up KK vs AA pot, although I am not claiming the style is better, its just MY style so I LIKE it better)
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On May 13 2005 04:36 FroZZoR wrote:
I believe the plural of "fish" is not "fishes", it's also "fish"
good contribution froz
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
It's Fishes froz, U know Nothing.
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i love goldfishes because they're so delicious
great article rekrul
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On May 13 2005 11:24 BG1 wrote:
Are there any disadvantages of playing for play money as a beginner (other than not being to win real money ofcourse) ?
I got my money by winning freerolls on pokerstars. When the tourneys start its crazy. Alot of people will call you all in with draws, but as long as you play tight the math will turn in your favor sooner or later. Then after about the first hour it gets more normal. It took me a good 8 months at least of playing before I got real money from freerolls however. I made top 9 five or six times, but never got into the money during the real tourneys after that. As long as your looking too play poker as a hobby I think Freerolls are a realistic way of geting some cash.
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OH rekrul, I think you should not have said how much you won if your point was to warn people from poker :S.
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no it's really "fish" in this case.
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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I can't think of one time in my life I said "Hey, check out my new tropical fishes" Little kids like to say "oo, look at teh fishies!"
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i just have a question... a lot of you say you were up like a few hundred dollars, but then after a day or whatever you've lost it all? do you just keep playing and losing? how does cashing out work? can you cash out (that's basically just taking your current money balance and depositing in your bank account or whatever right?) at any time? (not during a game obviously) so like say i played on the 1 cent tables for a while and made 50 bucks, i could cash out right then and there right... there's nothing 'preventing' me from stopping playing...
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
yes there is something preventing them from stopping
greed
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SoleSteeler bashers come to your house if you try to cash out.
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Mike Caro has another reason rekrul;
"The stupidest question asked to a poker player is .' why didn't you quit when you were 50'000 ahead'' BECAUSE, when I am up and winning that usually means the conditions are ripe for me to make a profit, good table image, table activity, plenty of sleep, not hungry. If that 50'000 had turned to 200'000 then you wouldn't have said shit?... poker is about money, you have to get it in when you have the best of it.
This also relates to his other maxium "maxium pain" or something like that, where after a certain point it all feels the same, 500 lost becomes 5000 lost and you are just as numb as with 500, (assuming 500 is more of you bankroll then you can afford to lose in one night, whereass 5000 might be all of it)
Greed is a factor thou.
BUT, greed isn't why good players will hold 20+ hour sessions, its timming "I feel good, I will do good, and then all thats left is average cards and BOOM" 1k in 2 days (this doesn't apply to mr.moneybags aka rekrul who better get a good broker and invest 50% of what he has right now, build back up and do it again, .... unless he wants to be stuck eacking out a poker living forever , which can be a dangerous thing)
Personally .. I say, go up as much as you can ... 10dollars to 80 in 1 hour and 45 minutes ... BUT realize that the longer you play the less likely you are to get a good hourly wage .... 1.45/80 is 55 or so an hour.......... if you make 20 more over 2 hours then 100/3.45 is 28 dollars an hour, this would indicate that it is not profitable to keep playing .... Guys no matter how good you are, PLEASE THINK. I don't post here often anymore, but I do read, and I am very upset by how many of you have taken up the trade, just for that fact that 90% of gamblers, real ones are degenerate personalities, and I hope for so much more then this for all of you .... hell and me =)
IF ANYONE SAYS ONE WORD ABOUT GRAMMER/COHERANCY/sPELLING I WILL FUCKING KILL MYSELF!
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Ive noticed a lot of people bragging about poker. Friends of mine in real life said they made loads of money, when I was at there houses they always cashed it all out and had nothing left. I also noticed how they were never playing anymore
Poker is fun for me, maybe a little too much fun. I caught myself playing sometimes playing for 12 hours a day And even though I am not bad at poker I am not making great money like rekrul elky or any other. I can even say I am happy not going broke. I mean I didnt get anything for starcraft at all and I could still enjoy that. Same with poker, but here I get a little money Not enough to live from I think, but money is not that matters to me. Maybe when I get better I start making more money. Ill see if I can meet Rekrul at WSOP in a few years
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On May 14 2005 05:43 SoleSteeler wrote:
i just have a question... a lot of you say you were up like a few hundred dollars, but then after a day or whatever you've lost it all? do you just keep playing and losing? how does cashing out work? can you cash out (that's basically just taking your current money balance and depositing in your bank account or whatever right?) at any time? (not during a game obviously) so like say i played on the 1 cent tables for a while and made 50 bucks, i could cash out right then and there right... there's nothing 'preventing' me from stopping playing...
I am really not sure, but on Prima Network they does not allow you to deposit more tan 500 $ a month or something like that. So when you are out of cash for the month, well you cannot play anymore there ( although there are tons of sites).
You can cash out at any time while you are not on a table.
Sometimes you cannot cash-out bonuses since you need to play some hand ( some room give you the bonus right off the bat but you gotta play raked hand, like 1000 or so)
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yes all tl.net poker players at WSOP in some years 
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Braavos36379 Posts
nobody knows what their peak $ amount is or when they're about to hit a bad streak, so it's dumb to ask "why didn't you cash out at X?" leaving on your peak is so hard because at that time it feels like you can win more...
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In general i see rekrul as a dork who just brags about how drunk he is and how good he is at poker. But then once in a while he makes a post like this and you just realize that there actually is a really nice person behind that name very nice article. really enjoyed to read about your trip to korea and your poker carreer.
i lost about $100 at first and said to myself that i would never play again. but then i saw elky and rekrul play on pstars and just thought to myself "if i want to be that good i have to dedicate my life to it and sacrifise alot of money". but i realized that if i lost another $100 i would not only lose my entire real-life bankroll ^^ but also start to cry and feel like the dumbest person on earth.
I must get a real job, tell my girlfriend how much I love her and meet my friends as much as I can until i sit at a poker-table again.
So, when I feel good about myself and can afford to lose I will start play.
And btw poker is not like starcraft. if you play starcraft like you play poker you will play BGH-FFA with 7 players and surrender 75% of your games before they even have started just because you are spawned at the wrong position. And I dont think many players play like that.
hf
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people who play ffa bgh and leave at the wrong positon cant play poker either
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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On May 14 2005 07:40 {ToT}Strafe wrote:Ive noticed a lot of people bragging about poker. Friends of mine in real life said they made loads of money, when I was at there houses they always cashed it all out and had nothing left. I also noticed how they were never playing anymore
Jeez ^^!
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The daily tournament. As you can see almost 2x improvement since yesterday.
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:D
jeez im a bit nervous, im playing a tournament
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On May 14 2005 10:27 Chibi[OWNS] wrote:
gO)E.Ahriman: WTF did you leave for? : P
Chibi[OWNS]: bad start go again?
gO)E.Ahriman: Just die already : P
Chibi[OWNS]: gl hf
That dewd sounds like testie.
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On May 14 2005 10:42 pinbaLL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2005 07:40 {ToT}Strafe wrote:Ive noticed a lot of people bragging about poker. Friends of mine in real life said they made loads of money, when I was at there houses they always cashed it all out and had nothing left. I also noticed how they were never playing anymore Jeez ^^!
translation:
i got my 9th free 50 on partypoker, ran it up to 110 then went broke the next day
i am a poker superstar because i made 60
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On May 14 2005 09:35 joeki wrote:
And btw poker is not like starcraft. if you play starcraft like you play poker you will play BGH-FFA with 7 players and surrender 75% of your games before they even have started just because you are spawned at the wrong position. And I dont think many players play like that.
hf
1-Playing starcraft you can learn to get good at doing a lot of stuff at the same time( for multi-tabling)
2-You have incomplete information and you must guess as best as you can what they other will do in thier building order( read the other player).
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United States33484 Posts
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I was just wondering, im sure it has been mentioned, but what poker sites do alot of you play on? Which is the best for a beginner, i mean, i play in real life as much as i can, probably every weekend all weekend and like 2-3 time during the week. I've been playing at PokerStars.net, but i wanted to get some different opinions...
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is there any page anyone can redirect me to where it comes to all these expressions "tilt" "bad beat" and so forth... most of them i can guess but i'd still like some 100% correct definitions....
thank you
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and also thank you rekrul, really nice post... i hope you make more posts in the future about your poker playing :D
was just wondering how much of a difference it is (skillwise) between playmoney and the real shit, so to speak? i mean... i've been playing with playmoney for a while and i'm doing pretty good (getting a grip of some strategies and so forth) but am i just fooling myself? like is there a big difference?
thanks
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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OOOH CONGRATULATIONS!!
8D
gummi you play at expekt?
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Another quick questions... is there any time limits? I play some poker in real life, and since we're all friends we let each other take their time... but it's not like "you must place your bet in 5...4...3...2...1..." is it? :p I mean, those tournaments, they must be somewhat time based, I guess there could be a good betting 'time' of like 3-4 minutes else you are kicked for being idle or something
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on pokerstars you get 15 seconds and then a 60 second time clock activates
and then your hand is folded if the 60 seconds is up
if lets say u come back at the 15 second left mark, next time it actives you wont have 60 seconds, it'll start lower so it takes time to 'replenish'
and if u crash
u have a couple of minutes to come back and not lose your spot in a ring game, but if its tournanment you'll just be sitting out and losing blinds
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United States4714 Posts
Edit: Veg answered before me
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yeah there a time limit of a littil over 1 minute
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oh yeah, that's another thing i forgot, what if you crash :p doesn't sound too too bad though, and i doubt that happens often right?
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well i have an amazing cable connection (quite often breaks 1mb/s downloads etc.) and a very nice computer
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On May 14 2005 15:29 SoleSteeler wrote:Another quick questions... is there any time limits? I play some poker in real life, and since we're all friends we let each other take their time... but it's not like "you must place your bet in 5...4...3...2...1..." is it? :p I mean, those tournaments, they must be somewhat time based, I guess there could be a good betting 'time' of like 3-4 minutes else you are kicked for being idle or something
in those tournaments people on your table can call the clock on you, from that moment you have x amount of time before you hand is folded
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Rek, great post. Very informative.
Can I ask if you read any books along the way in your development? If so, were they helpful for you? I am currently reading Sklansky's Theory of Poker which I got with FPP on stars.
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Yeah Rek what did you red?:>
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
Rek, i posted your post on Elky's web blog, I hope you dont' mind ^^. great post! (i mentioned its posted here)
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On May 13 2005 05:19 ret wrote:
btw what i don't get is if poker can be so rewarding, why don't firms develop super poker computers and have them play at these sites and make tons of cash?
its banned.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
i read about 10 books (not thoroughly) and none of them helped at all
this is because i had been playing 3-4 months online before i started reading them
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fyi
dunno where else to post this
Elky finished 28th in pokerstars 350K guarenteed tonight
i didnt see it but heard him saying on another table that he lost KK vs AJo for a huge pot
btw: why is elky playing WSOP qualifiers when he already qualified? is he allowed to take 11k$ instead of the trip ?? i thought tournament qualifiers, once won, would give you nothing to play in them
maybe PS is different??
edit: i should probably add there were 2649 entrants in the 350K guarenteed making a 28th finish pretty nice
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KKc
flop all c, AJ no club, A turn
pretty sad
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it was $500k I think, 350 guaranteed
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On May 13 2005 05:14 ret wrote:
the article is nice and all but this is what people are gonna remember from it :
'made over over 120k in two months'
Haha yeah! Since Rek mentioned that it does require strategical mind to play, I think I will try it. Let's start at the penny table!!! 
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I can live off 120 k for 5 years at least lol.
Rekrul, edit your first post lol.
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what do u want me to edit
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
what do u want me to edit
gay joels id
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the only interesting poker book i read was supersystem
it wasn't good for NL ring
still interesting
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He wants you to edit the 120k part out I think?
Because now everyone will turn mad and kill all his income playing poker trying to achieve 120k in 2 months and die poor.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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You could buy a kickass car or something.
I'd say that's a ridiculous amount for 2 months, with that kind of income, aren't you living like kings or something ?
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rek
why dont i ever see u playing tourneys or sngs ? u boring fuck =[!!
same question to naz
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The books were very important to me. Some people pick up advanced strategy quicker than others I guess but for me they helped a lot. That being said, there are not a lot of books on NL holdem ring games (more are coming out soon though). They did help me on my limit game, stud and omaha game.
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Book are ok to read, but really not the main thing. I would never follow exactly a book. There are however all oriented toward limit.
I never saw any no-limit book like the "advanced hold em-- SKLANSKY" for no-limit.
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Izenra what about championship no limit & pot limit?or harrington on poker?
I haven t read any of them but I heard they cower some advanced material.
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On May 16 2005 05:00 Veg wrote:
rek
why dont i ever see u playing tourneys or sngs ? u boring fuck =[!!
same question to naz yeah elky the only one of you who is fun to watch. Rek naz and grr all just play boring ring games.
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On May 16 2005 09:09 InToTheWannaB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2005 05:00 Veg wrote:
rek
why dont i ever see u playing tourneys or sngs ? u boring fuck =[!!
same question to naz yeah elky the only one of you who is fun to watch. Rek naz and grr all just play boring ring games.
I agree, go risk all ur money at higher stakes and 5k heads up tournies for our amusement.
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Rek, you ever use PokerTracker or checkyourbets.com or anything of the likes?
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Maybe it's just me, but the only book that I found helpful was Caro's book of tells. Everything else I've read has generally shared very little that I felt was helpful to my game. After playing the game for long enough, you don't need somebody to tell you how to play AK in the various positions of the game.. you should've figured that out already. I did find Caro's book helpful because I've never been great with tells and it did give me a nice little checklist of stuff to try and stay alert for. The next poker book I plan to read is the Psychology of Poker because it seems to be another book that deals primarily with players' emotions and not with the cards being used.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
The book of tells can be deceiving though.
One of the tells he mentions is if an opponent is covering their mouth, chances are they are bluffing.
But I have been in similar situations when in fact them covering their mouth meant they had a good hand.
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Tells can help but generally IMO books are too basic and almost useless when it comes to no limit poker.
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I play ring because it's the least intensive. Can browse, chat and all that stuff at the same time without any problem. Heads up needs so much attention =[
I agree that it's boring to watch but I don't play for your entertainment unfortunately :p I watch Elky alot though, it's pretty fun to see.
Haven't read any book so I most definitely don't think they are a must for online ring play.
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On May 16 2005 02:55 Rekrul wrote:
120k isnt much though
jeez.
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On May 16 2005 10:12 Tien wrote:
The book of tells can be deceiving though.
One of the tells he mentions is if an opponent is covering their mouth, chances are they are bluffing.
But I have been in similar situations when in fact them covering their mouth meant they had a good hand.
It can be, but that's why you need to assess a game before ever applying ANY tell. You can't come in cold turkey, see some guy shake while betting on the river, and assume he has the nuts. A tell is something you generally need to observe over the course of a game before being able to apply it.
The part of the book that I felt was most beneficial was not necessarily having that big list of tells, but his explanations of WHY people do the things they do. Basically it was the introductions to most of the major sections of the book. With that information, you can begin trying to pick out your own tells on people depending on how they play. Personally, I've found that picking up a tell on a player is as rewarding (if not more) than winning money. However, that's just me and about 99% of my poker expeirence has been through offline events.
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On May 16 2005 08:41 NeverEndingStory wrote:
Izenra what about championship no limit & pot limit?or harrington on poker?
I haven t read any of them but I heard they cower some advanced material.
I did not read the book, and from what I see, I think poker forum are just as good hehe.
And harrington is tournment play, I am more ring play.
Although I don't think I need a book anymore. I might read some of the new book, but I don't think they are going to be that good.
Like, super system ( old I know) , the only few thing I really remember is that you absolutly need an 5 or a 10 to make a straigh, which is pretty basic put I had never thought about it lol.
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On May 16 2005 12:04 draeger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2005 10:12 Tien wrote:
The book of tells can be deceiving though.
One of the tells he mentions is if an opponent is covering their mouth, chances are they are bluffing.
But I have been in similar situations when in fact them covering their mouth meant they had a good hand. It can be, but that's why you need to assess a game before ever applying ANY tell. You can't come in cold turkey, see some guy shake while betting on the river, and assume he has the nuts. A tell is something you generally need to observe over the course of a game before being able to apply it. The part of the book that I felt was most beneficial was not necessarily having that big list of tells, but his explanations of WHY people do the things they do. Basically it was the introductions to most of the major sections of the book. With that information, you can begin trying to pick out your own tells on people depending on how they play. Personally, I've found that picking up a tell on a player is as rewarding (if not more) than winning money. However, that's just me and about 99% of my poker expeirence has been through offline events.
shaking pf from an amateur is AA or KK
100%
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What's ring and why's it so relaxing?
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cash game, no blind increasing, easier IMO.
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"no blind increasing" means to only bet with good cards?
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United States4714 Posts
No, he left off the s, he meant no blinds increasing. The big and small blinds are constant on cash games so you can wait for good cards, which is not the case late in many tournies.
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cash game is more skill than online tournies since blinds vs stack are so high and most decisions are autoplay because u have so little money.
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ring u are methodically collecting information for that opportunity to stack someone
tourney you get big then race nonstop
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of course, nothing is more nerve-wracking than facing a big decision for your chips with a marginal hand late in a tournment
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Braavos36379 Posts
i think tournament is harder because it requires a ridiculous amount of focus for an extended period of time... ring you can make mistakes and still recover, lots of times in tournaments you can't
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actually it's the other way around for a good tournament player
having the table covered 2x masks pretty much all errors
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Hm, sorry about using this thread for this but it's already on top and it's about poker
Maybe someone can say something insightful
I've just started playing .. 0.01/0.02 NL mostly
I'm having trouble with the following situation: I join a table where about 2/3 of people all play very loose. They play at least until flop like 80% of the time. I hear it's a good idea to fold a lot and play good cards. Since they are all playing lose they notice me quickly and when I act with good cards they fold and i collect tiny pots. And if I don't play good cards I tend to lose because, well, they are bad cards, and rarely does everyone fold and somebody likely DOES have good cards.
What's a good way to go about in dealing with players like this? I'm sure they aren't very common at higher stakes but meanwhile...
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BOy I didn't know 1/2 cent limit were that fancy.
Play more hand, raise a lot so that you get an image( lol an image for 1/2 cent) if you have a tight image.
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NL = no limit, why are you saying "1/2 cent limit"?
well I've seen $5+ bets on 1/2 cent NL a lot, so its not THAT small
i mean where else are players supposed to start?
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Dude just keep doing what your doing play tight and when u hit a flop push it hard. You would be supprised just how many nuts are just dieing to give you there money. People will call looking for crap often. Just a matter of time.
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On May 16 2005 19:48 MPXMX wrote:
Hm, sorry about using this thread for this but it's already on top and it's about poker
Maybe someone can say something insightful
I've just started playing .. 0.01/0.02 NL mostly
I'm having trouble with the following situation: I join a table where about 2/3 of people all play very loose. They play at least until flop like 80% of the time. I hear it's a good idea to fold a lot and play good cards. Since they are all playing lose they notice me quickly and when I act with good cards they fold and i collect tiny pots. And if I don't play good cards I tend to lose because, well, they are bad cards, and rarely does everyone fold and somebody likely DOES have good cards.
What's a good way to go about in dealing with players like this? I'm sure they aren't very common at higher stakes but meanwhile...
so long as ur tighter and smarter than the table u'll win
open up your limp and raise range
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not huge amounts, just enough that you get consistent action
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when I am playing poker for JUST CASH versus improving my all around game I (althought I hate it) play tight aggressive... when I notice someone using my prefered style I can realize ... well fuck i am smart enough to get away from a tight aggressive player when I am just pushing money around... so how can I get money out of them .... DON'T PLAY tight aggressive.... every few hands even if your catching 10/9, 10/8 . 4,5 (SUITED ONLY) put in a solid raise ... (NOTE: ten/8 suited has a 21% of beating Rockets before the flop, and since pocket pairs fair no better I say push those fuckers)
that way you are playing more then 10-15% of pots .. maybe you'll go up to 15-18% and be able to get more action AND pick up blinds with nothing
Which is really the same as playing loose aggressive except you get tangled up in situations where you hit and they hit better alot more when loose aggressive... I say poker is about being subtle , but if you are tight aggressive, AKA not subtle then you have to make plays.... for more information on the different levels of thinking in colliding styles just ask .... this is one of my favorite areas of poker.
GL!
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I know a lot of poker terms nwo, but what's "opening up my limp"?
Also is there a point to not posting blinds besides saving money?
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he ment limp in , aka call with more hands
and raise with a wider variety of hands ... read my above post for how I think you could go about this.
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not posting blinds saves no money
you either have to pay it on your next hand, and some sites you make you pay for a dead small blind also, or wait until the button passes you and pay it in a late postion ....
When you get to a table wait until you are REALY in the big blind before you pay it, take those few hands and write some notes, mentaly or literally about what you see , what they do, how much they have, what there name could mean ,,,. how much is a "standard raise to them" take all that in before you ever play a hand and I promise you will make smarter decisions then if you did not ...
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Poker's just too risky for me. Perhaps when I'm twenty five and have a life, job, girlfriend/wife, maybe. From your post you admitted that things could've easily gone badly if luck had screwed you. I just wouldn't be able to risk that.
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On May 16 2005 20:26 Casper... wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2005 19:48 MPXMX wrote:
Hm, sorry about using this thread for this but it's already on top and it's about poker
Maybe someone can say something insightful
I've just started playing .. 0.01/0.02 NL mostly
I'm having trouble with the following situation: I join a table where about 2/3 of people all play very loose. They play at least until flop like 80% of the time. I hear it's a good idea to fold a lot and play good cards. Since they are all playing lose they notice me quickly and when I act with good cards they fold and i collect tiny pots. And if I don't play good cards I tend to lose because, well, they are bad cards, and rarely does everyone fold and somebody likely DOES have good cards.
What's a good way to go about in dealing with players like this? I'm sure they aren't very common at higher stakes but meanwhile... so long as ur tighter and smarter than the table u'll win open up your limp and raise range
Instead of this I would recomend having a standard bet. That way people dont know if you have trips or a draw. I use this a lot if I am not getting enough action. What I mean is instead of betting huge when you flop trips, a smaller amount when you hit top pair, and a large amount with 2 pair just bet the same amount on the flop no matter what you have assuming you have a playable hand. This leaves them guessing and invites action into the turn and river, where you now no longer use the standard bet.
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this thread made me see lot of different perspective in life.
and yes Rekrul your life is just so very interesting you could write a book about it.
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It would be very nice reading.Maybe sb can convince him to do it ? ; )
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Very interesting story from my perspective considering alot of what you wrote I can relate to. I am in college right now and always used to play poker casually, thought I was good just because i beat my friends etc etc. I had played online poker on and off but never made any real money online. I became interested in playing again once receiving email about party poker's reload bonus. I actually began reading more about how to play and talking to other successful players I knew online. Started learning how to actually play the game and have been able to turn my $50 deposit into about 14k in the past 2months. The real test will be to see if I can continue being a winner player since 2 months is not long to judge, but I certainly have not been on some amazing streak of luck which makes me confident i'll be able to continue... ive actually had 4 pretty brutal losing streaks and was able to stay cool and bounce back. Guess i'll see how things turn out since summer is coming up and i no longer will have to be bothered with school work.
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Also, this post made me realize that I may be mis leading alot of my friends who talk to me on AIM about my poker winnings. When I show them a big hand or talk to them about a nice run... i pretty much am giving them only the good side of poker which definitely is misleading. I've had 12 friends total in the past 2 months that have started playing poker online after hearing about my winnings (most of them played poker with me in live games and at one point or another had tried online but then quit because they thought it was 'rigged'). Because of this i stopped talking about profit and nice hands altogether because I don't want to feel guilty about them losing money online. I damn sure couldnt make money when i first started playing and didnt even realize the type of strategy and thinking that goes on... but when I finally did it was more of "jesus christ i never knew it was this deep, no wonder i couldnt fucking win".
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On May 16 2005 21:42 -_- wrote:
Poker's just too risky for me. Perhaps when I'm twenty five and have a life, job, girlfriend/wife, maybe. From your post you admitted that things could've easily gone badly if luck had screwed you. I just wouldn't be able to risk that.
when you have a job/wife it'll be prime-time for disasters.
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Exactly what harm can poker do when you have no bills to pay, but if you live on your own and even have a family well then...
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France1270 Posts
On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether???
So, who is gonna answer that??
The two who tried so far (imRadu and PvTguillo, p.4) clearly missed the point.
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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If they missed the point mabye you'd like to clarify it, Benny?
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On May 17 2005 09:06 X)Benny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether??? So, who is gonna answer that?? The two who tried so far (imRadu and PvTguillo, p.4) clearly missed the point.
The answer is most people don't make a lot of money from poker, so they lie to justify their playing it.
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Braavos36379 Posts
tons of people regularly lose, just not a lot, and it slowly gets filtered up to the top limits?
and then there are a few that lose A LOT
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On May 17 2005 09:06 X)Benny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether??? So, who is gonna answer that?? The two who tried so far (imRadu and PvTguillo, p.4) clearly missed the point.
Perhaps if you rephrase your question into something that makes sense, you will get the answer you're looking for.
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On May 16 2005 13:34 Casper... wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2005 12:04 draeger wrote:On May 16 2005 10:12 Tien wrote:
The book of tells can be deceiving though.
One of the tells he mentions is if an opponent is covering their mouth, chances are they are bluffing.
But I have been in similar situations when in fact them covering their mouth meant they had a good hand. It can be, but that's why you need to assess a game before ever applying ANY tell. You can't come in cold turkey, see some guy shake while betting on the river, and assume he has the nuts. A tell is something you generally need to observe over the course of a game before being able to apply it. The part of the book that I felt was most beneficial was not necessarily having that big list of tells, but his explanations of WHY people do the things they do. Basically it was the introductions to most of the major sections of the book. With that information, you can begin trying to pick out your own tells on people depending on how they play. Personally, I've found that picking up a tell on a player is as rewarding (if not more) than winning money. However, that's just me and about 99% of my poker expeirence has been through offline events. shaking pf from an amateur is AA or KK 100%
Not always. I'm an amateur player and I shake for EVERY hand because my hands are naturally shakey. It's something that I think is genetic, but I've always had a mild shake to my hands when I try and hold them still. It actually works to my benefit occasionally because people see me shake on a bluff and assume I actually have something.
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On May 17 2005 05:07 Dirk wrote:
Also, this post made me realize that I may be mis leading alot of my friends who talk to me on AIM about my poker winnings. When I show them a big hand or talk to them about a nice run... i pretty much am giving them only the good side of poker which definitely is misleading. I've had 12 friends total in the past 2 months that have started playing poker online after hearing about my winnings (most of them played poker with me in live games and at one point or another had tried online but then quit because they thought it was 'rigged'). Because of this i stopped talking about profit and nice hands altogether because I don't want to feel guilty about them losing money online. I damn sure couldnt make money when i first started playing and didnt even realize the type of strategy and thinking that goes on... but when I finally did it was more of "jesus christ i never knew it was this deep, no wonder i couldnt fucking win".
Yea I was talking to one of my friend about how much I win. I even warned him that only 20 % of player and less actually win. He said : " I am only going to spend about 20 $"
So I asked him how he is doing each he says good thing like : " I am up 200, drop to 150, up to 400"!
One morning he came in very down, I ask him what the matter : he fucking DEPOSITE and LOST 400 $.. what an idiot.
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On May 17 2005 09:06 X)Benny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2005 11:22 X)Benny wrote:
I don't understand how it is possible to make so much money from poker. The money you make, some people must be losing it. Even if you consider that a lot of little loses combine to a few big profits, how can there be so many people losing so much money alltogether??? So, who is gonna answer that?? The two who tried so far (imRadu and PvTguillo, p.4) clearly missed the point.
-omg benny i just finished 94th in a tourney confirming my pro status and you say im wrong because i said lotsa fish :D
what did i miss? :D
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izenra , i promise you that anyone with a knack for the game and puts in over 100 hours a month can make money. 2. starting at low limits creates addicition. ..... .1/.2 tables make you think and strive to make money, and alot (NOT ALL) of players try and coin flip there way to the next level. All of you who are starting on low levels IMO are starting wrong, My poker bankroll managmant theory goes .... save alot of money in r/l before playing online, you can except to turn 50 into 500 a hundred percent of the time , you should start at any site with no less then 250-300 dollars but more preferably closer to a thousand. Micro limits teaches bad habits and for the most part can be considered real poker.
The smallest limit that is NL and played on a level where people want to win is 50dollar n/l tables
blinds .25/.50 ... because even thou it is a small amount of money it is a REAL amount of it.... for instance a .25 raise on a .1/.2 cent table will do what to someone who wants to "gamble" while a 11 dollar raise speaks to people .... that says 2 days of jack in the box
2 packs of smokes (roughly)
2 12packs of diet coke
and so on .. because on that level people are thinking "HEY THIS IS REAL MONEY! I CAN WIN 200 dollars in a multiway pot , OH SHIT..." while levels above it is units ... "the goal of the game to take induce everyone to give you all there chips ...... the strategy if figuring out how"
I say your friend it someone very smart actually
he deposited the exact amount that his luck variance got him to, and then lost it. He has just learned that he's not good enough to handle 400 dollars in poker ... which generally means he should freeroll his way up! ....
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 17 2005 12:28 Chibi[OWNS] wrote:i am a pro poker player...... if you don't believe me ,,,,,, give $0.30 to IbsuBaiHui on www.pokerstars.com.......tnx
chibi always cracks me up
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actually around 40% of players win
it's just that most of the winners win microscopically and pay the site 5x what they win in rake
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a mediocre player is the pokersite's best friend
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where did you get the 40% number?
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Braavos36379 Posts
the people that win a lot don't pay the same rake
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yeah switched to bigger sample
40% holds
seems right; net$inplay less rake; adjust for the better players winning alot more than the marginal winners
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On May 17 2005 12:23 AttackZerg wrote:
izenra , i promise you that anyone with a knack for the game and puts in over 100 hours a month can make money. 2. starting at low limits creates addicition. ..... .1/.2 tables make you think and strive to make money, and alot (NOT ALL) of players try and coin flip there way to the next level. All of you who are starting on low levels IMO are starting wrong, My poker bankroll managmant theory goes .... save alot of money in r/l before playing online, you can except to turn 50 into 500 a hundred percent of the time , you should start at any site with no less then 250-300 dollars but more preferably closer to a thousand. Micro limits teaches bad habits and for the most part can be considered real poker.
The smallest limit that is NL and played on a level where people want to win is 50dollar n/l tables
blinds .25/.50 ... because even thou it is a small amount of money it is a REAL amount of it.... for instance a .25 raise on a .1/.2 cent table will do what to someone who wants to "gamble" while a 11 dollar raise speaks to people .... that says 2 days of jack in the box
2 packs of smokes (roughly)
2 12packs of diet coke
and so on .. because on that level people are thinking "HEY THIS IS REAL MONEY! I CAN WIN 200 dollars in a multiway pot , OH SHIT..." while levels above it is units ... "the goal of the game to take induce everyone to give you all there chips ...... the strategy if figuring out how"
I say your friend it someone very smart actually
he deposited the exact amount that his luck variance got him to, and then lost it. He has just learned that he's not good enough to handle 400 dollars in poker ... which generally means he should freeroll his way up! ....
No I warned him like a fucker, that why he is an idiot. And 400 $ is 70 % of his total cash....
He suck at poker, I play vs him lol. I don' think he ever got over 50 buck , unless he deposite 100 $ at once?
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so those stats are just your personal experience right? could vary on different limits for example?
PT said 40% was even or better, meaning including the rake they paid to PS all of them are winning players?
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higher limits it would be closer to 50:50 less rake
rake is continually removed from play; after rake 40% win (although small winners pay more rake than they win)
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something like 50/100NL would be incredibly close to 50:50
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I thought Casper couldn't be right, but to my surprise, I got the same results. My PT stats of 1800 unique players list 40.88% as winners, 59.12% as losers. My stats for 25-50 NL, 120 unique players, has exactly the same numbers of winners and losers.
Very interesting.
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I play short handed low limit. 40 - 60 there also. 100k hands.
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(I found the answer to my question)
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However, alot of these players are people that logged on once, got some lucky hands and won $$, correct? Or are they all long-term winners?
Because I think long-term winners should be less than 40%
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On May 17 2005 07:21 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2005 21:42 -_- wrote:
Poker's just too risky for me. Perhaps when I'm twenty five and have a life, job, girlfriend/wife, maybe. From your post you admitted that things could've easily gone badly if luck had screwed you. I just wouldn't be able to risk that. when you have a job/wife it'll be prime-time for disasters.
Don't crush my poker dreams!!!
Why would having a steady job be a prime time for disasters anyway?
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because then you have something to lose, might it go wrong?
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it's entirely possible to be a longtime small winner by having limited weapons and intelligence
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say a guy sucks but knows how to play AA/KK well and is competent with draws
he would win a small amount
weak/tight pussies would also win/lose small amounts depending on their weapons
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On May 17 2005 18:30 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2005 07:21 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 16 2005 21:42 -_- wrote:
Poker's just too risky for me. Perhaps when I'm twenty five and have a life, job, girlfriend/wife, maybe. From your post you admitted that things could've easily gone badly if luck had screwed you. I just wouldn't be able to risk that. when you have a job/wife it'll be prime-time for disasters. Don't crush my poker dreams!!! Why would having a steady job be a prime time for disasters anyway?
u shouldn't play poker if you are afraid. you must be fearless to win a lot.
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Casper question remains though, in your PT does it include people that have played like 1 session? Because among those are still people that are consistent losers.
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i can't run that without skewing it with my own results
ie filtering for 500+ hands
my gut tells me it would hold
most players suck
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ran it anyways
for 500 hands:
62% winners
38% losers
for 250 hands:
56%
44%
better players play more because they win and that's about all this says ;p
you see it all the time
bad player sucks out and runs with the money so he can lose it later
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all this means is that a bad player doesn't survive long enough for me to see him very much
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dunno what the implications would be for higher stakes play where people recreationally lose money and have the funds to continually play
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Imo about 90% of the players lose. Mostly due to rake. Without it, perhaps 40%. I am with nazgul on this one. There are a certain 10% who know how to play and the rest just luck out on eachother.
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10% is high
maybe 2% know what they are doing with any degree of competence
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and all of em think they know what theyre doing
dunno if im in the 2% or the 98%, but im winning anyway.
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it's entirely possible to develop a pattern of play that wins without knowing why it works
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Imo about 90% of the players lose. Mostly due to rake. Without it, perhaps 40%. I am with nazgul on this one. There are a certain 10% who know how to play and the rest just luck out on eachother
Exactly, thats why as soon as I even heard mention of rakeback programs I dropped my party poker account in a heart beat, based on poker tracker I lose about $1000 to rake every 2-3 days.
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What exactly is "freerolls", and how does it work?
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Netherlands13554 Posts
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in.
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My experiance is as follows:
My friends gave me $200 for my 18th bithday into online poker, cos we had played like 3 times in the previous month.
Anyway , first hand ever online I end up going all-in with AA and get A on the river and win $700, then my Dad walked in while I was still twitching with happiness and banned me from playing poker online for real money. I didn't care AT ALL that I was banned cos I realised that i could've so easily lost the $200 and the fact that I risked it meant that I wasnt cut out for real poker.
Anyway this guy I know at school hears about this cos I bragged like a mofo, and he tells his friend and they "see how easy it is to win buttloads of money with online poker" cos they had like 30k at playmoney,
they lost a combined $850 in 4 days and it fucked them up so bad, one of their parents kicked him out for like 2 weeks cos he was also doing bad at school and the money he lost was birthday money meant for schoolies
the other kid sold his tv and ps2 to put the money back in his back account so his parents wouldnt find out how much he lost (cos they check it to make sure he isn't wasting too much on food etc)
I cringe whenever i think of me winning the $800 cos it oculd've so easily gone wrong, I ONLY play playmoney now and I play that like 1 hour every two days or soemthing.
So for all you guys who want some stories about poker fucking people up this is one.
Don't play money poker unless you are prepared to cut your losses and quit while your ahead UNLESS you're good. and if you think you're good think again cos it's 99% chance that you're not (I KNOW I'm not good at all).
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I think you and those people you know, x2fst, have a big fondness for gambling. 200, 850 dollars waged by totally inexperienced players from what I understand... that's just foolish. IMO poker at a decent level is not really supposed to be a gamble
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Well he did went all-in with AA, I don't see any problem. He was in a situation that he could lose that money and not fucking up real-life anyway.
I don't know if he went preflop, or like on the turn where he was cleary beaten by 2 pair,
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On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in.
but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct?
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Izenra, there is a difference between going "all-in" on the table and literally going on in with all the money you have (dedicated to poker anyway). Yes? Especially when you are a beginner
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On May 18 2005 09:50 Sean.G wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in. but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct?
No, tournament style is where everyone starts out with 1500 chips, regardless of the buy-in of the tournament. If it's freeroll, you don't have to pay anything to get in, you get 1500 chips just like everyone else. You can bet with those, until you have no chips left. Then you're out of the tournament.
Most of those freeroll tournaments are sattelites to bigger tournaments though, and you won't find much profit in them. It is the only way though to make money from nothing at all though.
Anyway, on topic, I just got 10$ from Strafe and payed him 8 euro's for it, I'm not willing to spend more money on this shit. I got up to 140$ or something, now I'm back at 11$. So I didn't lose anything, I only won a lot of experience playing these penny tables.
Now I'm a bit bored with poker, but later on I'll just try to use this experience to gain some profit.
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On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:I got up to 140$ or something, now I'm back at 11$. So I didn't lose anything, I only won a lot of experience playing these penny tables.
Now I'm a bit bored with poker, but later on I'll just try to use this experience to gain some profit.
This is the wrong mindset to have about poker. Once that money goes in your stack, it's yours. You lost $132.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 18 2005 10:50 TieN.nS) wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:I got up to 140$ or something, now I'm back at 11$. So I didn't lose anything, I only won a lot of experience playing these penny tables.
Now I'm a bit bored with poker, but later on I'll just try to use this experience to gain some profit. This is the wrong mindset to have about poker. Once that money goes in your stack, it's yours. You lost $132.
AGREED
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Yeah I agree too.Honestly Twisted if you are bored already and You do not have true desire just give it up.You lost 132$ and if You are upset You should not be playing this game.Thats humble opinion of fish.
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don't lie to yourself
log the fucking net
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if after months of logging the net that you see that you've lost, you're a loser
don't beat yourself up over it
i'ts ok
most people are loser
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Rek you never sleep?It is like 4 am in Korea ; d
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
just got back from date lil drunk
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Thanks twisted. I guess I'll try it out. but don't I need to have an account to put the money I win in? and how can I take it out from my "bank" and use it? do I need a specific amount of money tod o so?
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hehe iam gaming freerolls for life :D,,, starting from scratch, won 3-4 freerolls, then playing massive 0.05 dollar buy-in tours ,, good pracctice, soon gonna start playing pennytables, You guys think this is the safest way 2 learn?
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there's nothing safer than putting up 0.00
all you lose is some of your finite time on earth
that said, there is merit in playmoney and freerolls
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Casper what prog do u use to view your hands/ how many hands you played? Pokertracker? Are there any free progs or sites that do this for u :-D
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why would you want a website to have your stats
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and if u want something for free go play bw
poker is an adult world
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ok asshole i was talking about free versions of products similar to pokertracker, or websites similar to www.pokergrader.com. What makes you so good to talk to someone like that, that was just asking a question?
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i went from $50 -> 60 -> 80 -> 200 -> 20 in four days.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
From: ItchReliever
Subject: sup
Date: 5/18 22:16
hi would you care to transfer a hundred dollars to my poker account "reliever"? it would help me get back on my feet as an aspiring beginner with, in my opinion, a lot of potential!
what have i done
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lol sorry i was just pissed and desperate
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loooooooooooooooooool !
I mean : " Hi care to give me 1 buck to play on penny table?" ok... no I won't give you a dollar
Give me 100 $?? NO!
hahhahahaha
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Braavos36379 Posts
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On May 18 2005 10:50 TieN.nS) wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:I got up to 140$ or something, now I'm back at 11$. So I didn't lose anything, I only won a lot of experience playing these penny tables.
Now I'm a bit bored with poker, but later on I'll just try to use this experience to gain some profit. This is the wrong mindset to have about poker. Once that money goes in your stack, it's yours. You lost $132.
Uh yeah which I had won before, so basically I look at it as being 1$ up.
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Braavos36379 Posts
which is the wrong mindset to have... once you have the money it's no longer counted as "winnings"... someone once told me you have to play like you're constantly even, you try to not allow how much you go up or down to affect the way you play...
think of it this way if Rekrul lost $80k tomorrow he'd still technically be "up" according to you haha
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sry rek, i figured you'd get 1000 messages
shouldn';t have bothered
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hey, how can I add real cash to my poker account thingie? Do I have to add a minimum amount of 50$ ? that sucks, it's a lot of money ((
I wanna add like 10$ and plei.
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On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2005 09:50 Sean.G wrote:On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in. but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct? Most of those freeroll tournaments are sattelites to bigger tournaments though, and you won't find much profit in them. It is the only way though to make money from nothing at all though.
Untrue, at least with regard to Stars. I have made a couple grand on there over a few months as a middle limit NL player. I have never deposited a cent of my own money on pokerstars. How did I do this? As strange as it sounds...sell play money. I don't know if you can do this on other sites but it is the best way for someone knew to online poker to get a free small stake imo.
Again, only with respect to pokerstars, I think the freerolls are likely a waste of your time. You need to finish in the top 9 in a field that can have as many as 6000 entrants (GL!) just to get an entry into another tournament of 400-500 entrants where top prize only yields about $125.
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lol I went from $70 to more than $1k in 8 days. Was sick tuesday and that affected my play a lot, I lost 600 or something hah. I learned my lesson, I use to be able to take my unfair losses without tilting, but when I felt shitty and tired and sick I just gave it all up. So, a word of warning: never play when youre sick!
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On May 19 2005 01:44 Logik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:On May 18 2005 09:50 Sean.G wrote:On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in. but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct? Most of those freeroll tournaments are sattelites to bigger tournaments though, and you won't find much profit in them. It is the only way though to make money from nothing at all though. Untrue, at least with regard to Stars. I have made a couple grand on there over a few months as a middle limit NL player. I have never deposited a cent of my own money on pokerstars. How did I do this? As strange as it sounds...sell play money. I don't know if you can do this on other sites but it is the best way for someone knew to online poker to get a free small stake imo. Again, only with respect to pokerstars, I think the freerolls are likely a waste of your time. You need to finish in the top 9 in a field that can have as many as 6000 entrants (GL!) just to get an entry into another tournament of 400-500 entrants where top prize only yields about $125.
How do you sell play money, and who the fuck would be dumb enough to buy it? just curious :p
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On May 19 2005 03:25 pinbaLL wrote:
lol I went from $70 to more than $1k in 8 days. Was sick tuesday and that affected my play a lot, I lost 600 or something hah. I learned my lesson, I use to be able to take my unfair losses without tilting, but when I felt shitty and tired and sick I just gave it all up. So, a word of warning: never play when youre sick!
u play too high
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Thats true, yes. I shouldve stayed on the 0.25/0.5-tables until I had like $1.5k or something. Ill work myself up again and take it slower.
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On May 19 2005 03:41 Sean.G wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2005 01:44 Logik wrote:On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:On May 18 2005 09:50 Sean.G wrote:On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in. but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct? Most of those freeroll tournaments are sattelites to bigger tournaments though, and you won't find much profit in them. It is the only way though to make money from nothing at all though. Untrue, at least with regard to Stars. I have made a couple grand on there over a few months as a middle limit NL player. I have never deposited a cent of my own money on pokerstars. How did I do this? As strange as it sounds...sell play money. I don't know if you can do this on other sites but it is the best way for someone knew to online poker to get a free small stake imo. Again, only with respect to pokerstars, I think the freerolls are likely a waste of your time. You need to finish in the top 9 in a field that can have as many as 6000 entrants (GL!) just to get an entry into another tournament of 400-500 entrants where top prize only yields about $125. How do you sell play money, and who the fuck would be dumb enough to buy it? just curious :p
You transfer play chips to someone. They transfer real money to you. There are a lot of people willing to buy play chips out there... believe me, I don't get it either lol. People sell on Ebay, there are a number of websites where u can sell your chips, and people set up private deals on pokerstars itself.
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On May 18 2005 22:46 Rekrul wrote:
From: ItchReliever
Subject: sup
Date: 5/18 22:16
hi would you care to transfer a hundred dollars to my poker account "reliever"? it would help me get back on my feet as an aspiring beginner with, in my opinion, a lot of potential!
what have i done
lol, rek is the new charity
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On May 19 2005 04:35 Logik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2005 03:41 Sean.G wrote:On May 19 2005 01:44 Logik wrote:On May 18 2005 10:22 Twisted wrote:On May 18 2005 09:50 Sean.G wrote:On May 18 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote:
Just a tournament you are free to enter, you don't need to buy-in. but you still need money on an account to place bets and such, am I correct? Most of those freeroll tournaments are sattelites to bigger tournaments though, and you won't find much profit in them. It is the only way though to make money from nothing at all though. Untrue, at least with regard to Stars. I have made a couple grand on there over a few months as a middle limit NL player. I have never deposited a cent of my own money on pokerstars. How did I do this? As strange as it sounds...sell play money. I don't know if you can do this on other sites but it is the best way for someone knew to online poker to get a free small stake imo. Again, only with respect to pokerstars, I think the freerolls are likely a waste of your time. You need to finish in the top 9 in a field that can have as many as 6000 entrants (GL!) just to get an entry into another tournament of 400-500 entrants where top prize only yields about $125. How do you sell play money, and who the fuck would be dumb enough to buy it? just curious :p You transfer play chips to someone. They transfer real money to you. There are a lot of people willing to buy play chips out there... believe me, I don't get it either lol. People sell on Ebay, there are a number of websites where u can sell your chips, and people set up private deals on pokerstars itself.
Hm.. people really do this? Btw, if I'd want to buy like 100000 play money chips for 10$, which insurance do I have of him giving me his chips after I pay? Seems risky to me :p
I'm playing a freeroll play money tour now, and I've been holding out long enough to have a break!! I'm so proud of myself :D (5 minute breaks every hour) **
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Hm.. people really do this? Btw, if I'd want to buy like 100000 play money chips for 10$, which insurance do I have of him giving me his chips after I pay? Seems risky to me
I'm playing a freeroll play money tour now, and I've been holding out long enough to have a break!! I'm so proud of myself :D (5 minute breaks every hour) **
100 000 play money for 10 $ is a lot lol. I wouldn' t pay more than 1 dollar for 1 000 000.
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100 000 play money for 10 $ is a lot lol. I wouldn' t pay more than 1 dollar for 1 000 000.
of course it's a lot. I'm surprised people even pay for any amount of play money at all. I wouldn't have paid at all for even an infinite amount of play money :p it's pointless imo
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im looking for play money, i offer 20$ for loads of play money
anyone interested?
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I can send you 1000 playchips 100 times if you give me $20! löl
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going rate on playmoney is around 15/million with discounts for bigger purchases btw
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Patience is so key... That and finite. Rekrul banged it right on the nail. Good stuff man.
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On May 19 2005 10:42 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
im looking for play money, i offer 20$ for loads of play money
anyone interested?
give me a good number, instead of loads, and give me 1-2 weeks and I can most likely have that amount ...
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at which time u can net 5 cents per hour on your transaction after asking him to wait for 2 weeks
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when I go on a rush I've gotten over a million in 8 hours ...
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I have accounts on 4 poker sites, but I haven't one on pokerstars ... I wouldn't mind getting a foot in while playing 1 table .... I have to 3 table nearly every day, why would I care if I have a fourth one open as play money? ......
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which is why it would take u 2 weeks to accumulate a few million rite
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On May 19 2005 10:42 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
im looking for play money, i offer 20$ for loads of play money
anyone interested? I got around 500k in play money chips. Since I got real money I dont use it anymore I'll give it to you for whatever price you think is fair.
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Casper stop being an asshole... of course I would do it over the period of a few weeks rather then devout an entire day to focusing on it ..... ....
AND think about what a rush is ... a rush is about flowing with energy and making all the right calls/folds/raises .... well right now if I hit a big rush I wouldn't be playing play money tables .... I am in this to make money .....
YOU KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ASSHOLE 24/7 YOU CAN RESERVE IT FOR SPECIAL TIMES LIKE WHEN THERE IS A REASON FOR IT? BACK OFF FUCKFACE.
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Haha, I love when people get mad at Casper.
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hay he's playmoney pokar pro
he's entitled
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btw thx for telling me what a rush is
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people even pmd me for that 20$ lol;) play me heads up for 20 ill go all in every hand
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ps im down 150 today kaka
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As Casper suggested the average rate is $15 per million play money chips on pokerstars. Selling play money is a dangerous practice as there are lots of individuals scammers on stars (i.e., take your money and run.) Furthermore, pokerstars will warn you for soliciting and then simply take it all if you keep it up. I lost 16 million, do not test them lol. I don't personally buy or sell play money chips anymore but I will help out those who want to by linking a few reputable websites that buy and sell.
http://www.ppchips.com/
http://www.onlinepokergoods.net/
http://www.pschiptraders.bravehost.com
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omg cant believe that stuff exists
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Same.
i can t believe that people changes real money for something which has none value..instead of buying play money why not to play penny tables just to have fun?
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Hmmn selling play money is like selling water in bottles. (yes they do that!)
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Difference being, water tastes good and is essential to life while play money should only be used in Monopoly.
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meaning muhweli in most countries you cant drink tapwater
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taste of water is also quite interesting since water doesn't really taste like anything mhmhm. Well hmmn.... let's find another comparison.
Selling playmoney is like selling porn in the internet, (since you can get it for free anyway!)
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If ppl buy mmorpg items then why not play chips...
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cuz the items are hard to get
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pfff you can find dumb people anywhere
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romania is a good place i heard;)
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On May 18 2005 08:50 MPXMX wrote:
I think you and those people you know, x2fst, have a big fondness for gambling. 200, 850 dollars waged by totally inexperienced players from what I understand... that's just foolish. IMO poker at a decent level is not really supposed to be a gamble
1. I would go all-in again given the chance, it was a good desision given the circumstances
2. Fondness for gambling? Spare me your judgement, if I was a gambler I would've continued gambling and perhaps lost all my money, poker is ALWAYS A GAMBLE and the 'gamble' I made was one of the more favourable ones in poker.
I went all-in AFTER the river (from reading my post over it sounds as if I lucked out with the third ace but not so) so I had triple A and the rest of the flop wouldve have produced I think 1 possible straight and no flushes so it was prety unlikely i wouldve been beaten.
3. Don't group me with the people I know, their situation was completely different to mine, they lost and couldn't stop and so kept losing, had I lost all my money I would not have deposited more money in the hopes of recouping my losses.
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Its stupid to play with all your money? =O
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On May 20 2005 08:47 pinbaLL wrote:
Its stupid to play with all your money? =O
it can be
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On May 20 2005 08:57 x2fst wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2005 08:47 pinbaLL wrote:
Its stupid to play with all your money? =O it can be
It is.
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On May 20 2005 09:52 Falc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2005 08:57 x2fst wrote:On May 20 2005 08:47 pinbaLL wrote:
Its stupid to play with all your money? =O it can be It is.
what if you are playing .05/.10 limit with $500 at the table and thats all your money? lol
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What if you have no money? lol
How old are you
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I've hit some rough patches where I had to take my last 500 bux to the "Lucky Derby" by my house and make something happen otherwise I would be in a bad spot, it's a 4/8 limit cardroom, for a no-limit/pot-limit regular it was so fucking hard each time.
If I lost my last 500 I would have been just as fucked if I sat on it, therefore playing with ALL of my money was my only option to fix the situation. Luck was on my side both times, and I was delt 2-4 on the BB checked to the flop and got a straight-flush straight flush =) a35diamonds....
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On May 20 2005 08:16 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
romania is a good place i heard;)
best
im #1 example
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I have to say poker confuse me, I find it boring and attracting at the same time. People are always talking about skills when winning and bad luck when losing.
My IRL poker stats rocks though. First time played Hold'em in my life, last sunday. I have won 2 games out of 4. All with 5-6 players. Lost my two first and even lost a buyin.
But I seriously know I wouldnt get any good at online poker since I am not ready to put 2 years of my life on a risky training journey.
Rekruls initial post confirmed all my false hope. We all dream of being the One but in the end when skill raise, you meet more and more people playing at your level, by the same rules as you and their misjudgements can turn against you? Cant they ?
Me noob,
me out
Good luck to all you guys.
I am happy someone is taking out that money those middleage men lose instead of raising their kids, hah
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I recently just jumped from limit to NL. I made about a grand off limit before getting absolutely stuck a month ago. I literally would break even every single day. I switched to NL and made 220 in 4 days. I know it will probably slow down but I'm sick of the fucking drawouts in limit and I can handle myself in low stakes NL
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Limit is like making a bike race on a bridge. Although, you have 4 wheels and they slow you down greatly, and the bridge has rope so you don't fall off
no-limit is with real bike, but no rope, so you can fall at any time off the bridge.
Conclusion : if you have skills in riding bike, take the race without rope, because since you go more skills, you can make them fall off the bridge, while you don't fall off.
If you don't have skill, go for the baby race.
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On May 20 2005 18:06 Izenra wrote:
Limit is like making a bike race on a bridge. Although, you have 4 wheels and they slow you down greatly, and the bridge has rope so you don't fall off
no-limit is with real bike, but no rope, so you can fall at any time off the bridge.
Conclusion : if you have skills in riding bike, take the race without rope, because since you go more skills, you can make them fall off the bridge, while you don't fall off.
If you don't have skill, go for the baby race.
This is a terrible analogy
lol
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That how I see it
Although limit player will bash me! But this is how I feel about limit because I suck at it !
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From: ItchReliever
Subject: sup
Date: 5/18 22:16
hi would you care to transfer a hundred dollars to my poker account "reliever"? it would help me get back on my feet as an aspiring beginner with, in my opinion, a lot of potential!
lmfao... he's like a railbird at the main table of a big tourney....
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drawouts happen everywhere
the joy of NL is the feeling of getting deep than getting stacked runner runner by a donkey who's won 6 showdowns in a row catching nonstop
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i'm just saying
NL has the capacity to break ur brain much quicker than limit
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That's why I don't play nl. 
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I don't agree
shorthanded and especially heads up limit has drained my money away faster when Im taking bad beats than nl 1000x over
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On May 20 2005 09:52 Falc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2005 08:57 x2fst wrote:On May 20 2005 08:47 pinbaLL wrote:
Its stupid to play with all your money? =O it can be It is.
.
WOW I MUST BE WRONG
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On May 21 2005 00:13 x2fst wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2005 09:52 Falc wrote:On May 20 2005 08:57 x2fst wrote:On May 20 2005 08:47 pinbaLL wrote:
Its stupid to play with all your money? =O it can be It is. . WOW I MUST BE WRONG
yes.
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Quoting 2+2 style, only place I see this lol.
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For the last time limit is a game of outs and odds and NL is a game of heart. It is not like one is for noobs and the other one isnt. I have seen Gus Hansen, Mimi Tran (just played dan N for 500k heads up) Phil Hellmuth and tons of other pros playing on-line. Every single time it was on limit. In fact Gus was playing on pokerstars yesterday and yes it was on limit. Izenra has a simplistic (and wrong) view on this.
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Would You tell us aka of Gus on PS?
I am quite sure that you won t but I had to try.; )
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can anyone name other big IDs on PS ?
im always stuck watching noobs like elky and slick while i play my 10$ SnGs T_T )
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Arg the site I was gonna get it from changes servers last week and it looks like they lost most of the players on the list. I posted about the problem lets see if it gets fixed. Here is a partial list.
All Below Are Pokerstars Screen Names
Dan Negreanu-DoubleSuited
Hoyt Corkins-EasyH
The Poker Babe-Siren
EDOGN- Erick Lindgren
reloadthis- Layne Flack
Prefontaine- Prahlad Friedman
razorbax- Josh Arieh
MrPokeJoke- Mike Matusouw
luckysucker- Hans "Tuna" Lund
Erik123- Erik Sagstrom
TheBeat- Pete Giordano
gank- Brett Jungblutt
bigglesworth- Thomas "Thunder" Keller
magicpitch- David Benyamine
el blondie- David Colclough
fossilman = Greg Raymer
tom mcevoy = Tom Mcevoy
money800 = Chris Moneymaker
Noo limit scootty ngugen
#1_Lucky_One = Phil Hellmuth
capnncoke = Chip Jett
the shrike = Howard Lederer
PateK - Simon "Aces" Trumper
Dblgutshot Kirill Gerasimov, Moscow
Jdags Jon Dagastino, lost to Ivey in first live TV event in Aug. 200
Sam Grizzle - 4KingAceHole
JohnJuanda - LuckBox
Michel Mizrachi - The Grinder
Scott Fishman - emptyseat88
Dustin Wolfe - neverwin ****my favorite player*****
Thomas Keller - bigglesworth
David Willams - RugDoctor
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Why not just post it here?
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greedy bastards, all of you.
only wanting to take other people's money
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the shrike is not howard lederer
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Ya travis I have to wait and see if they can get the old list back. This list I lifted from another site that I dont know well.
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i can confirm most of them
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I found this to be a great read and I think it deserves a bump after 5 years.
+ Show Spoiler +who cares about Sports and Games section anyways
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I guess the question for Rekrul is: Can you now say you are a pokerGod and that you've made your 500k? I'm thinking there's an obvious answer to this...
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On October 27 2010 04:12 LaughingTulkas wrote:I guess the question for Rekrul is: Can you now say you are a pokerGod and that you've made your 500k? I'm thinking there's an obvious answer to this...
considering he has spend prob 600k in hookers & clubs he's no more a "poker god" lolz
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I remember when Dan had to get a loan from Elky for 20k when he was broke and by the end of the weekend (3 days) he was up over 300k. lol
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Wow I figured this had to be a baller bump at first :o
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Question I have for rekrul now if he's still playing poker is: how much tougher has it become to win in poker? Considering he posted when online poker experienced its massive boom, it has to be different now.
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I played microstakes but I can answer: It has become WAY harder. I used to make $50/hr while watching porn. Now I have to really focus and would struggle to maintain $20/hr at the same stakes. Thus I CBF playing poker any more.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/bornwithskill/b0aa160a.jpg)
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