EPTIt's not very difficult to just steer clear of any appearance of DQ-able behavior so why not just avoid it entirely?
Magic: The Gathering - Page 495
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
It's not very difficult to just steer clear of any appearance of DQ-able behavior so why not just avoid it entirely? | ||
micronesia
United States24814 Posts
On November 14 2013 09:33 Imperfect1987 wrote: This seems like a situation where the people in the tournaments just needs to use common sense. You don't say "bomb" when on an airplane even jokingly. So don't say anything that can even possibly construed as collusion in a MTG tournament. I don't get why everyone is putting these two things in the same category. One is terrorism, killing multiple innocent people. The other is cheating in a competitive game. It's far more important to be careful in the former type of situation than the latter, in general. Most rules are common sense. That doesn't mean we don't write them down. No written rules will be perfect. With a slight modification the mtg tournament rules could handle the type of situation that started this conversation much better. I realize it looks like it's just me with my minority opinion and a whole bunch of other people saying they don't see a problem, but as I mentioned earlier this place is filled with people who are veterans of competitive magic. The same thing happend with PGTour (like iccup for those who don't remember) a number of years back. There were a bunch of rules, all of which you would get penalized for breaking. In the same list was a rule that you could not pause a game without the permission of your opponent. I asked the staff if the penalty for this infraction was the same as the others, and they said no, just that you can freely unpause the game if your opponent paused it without permission. I asked why they didn't put that into the rules to be clearer, and suddenly a bunch of people who were used to playing with the rules as they were (and had been for a good while) came forward saying how stupid of an idea it was to change the rules. It was common sense, apparently. I did not relent though because I thought it was a simple solution to a real (albeit not major) problem. Eventually the #2 guy for PGTour came into the discussion and asked what I suggested. I told him the rules could be modified to specify what happens if your opponent pauses the game. He had the rules changed from that point on and there was no more confusion about what happens when someone pauses without permission. The big difference with this case of course is that I was discussing it in a location where there were readers with the capability to do something about it (pgtour staff). Here, I'm just expressing my opinion on the issue, knowing that it's unlikely I will change everyone's mind, or that Wizards will be notified of my position. If I was actually a serious tournament player I would try to go through whatever channels exist to suggest a clarification be added to the rules to avoid situations like the earlier one. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
After talking about all of my drafts and hyping up how I'm almost ready to go to the standard tournament, my noob friends (I'm still noob, but I've just been taking the initiative to go to tournaments to get better) have been interested in making their decks standard and to make them actually good. And, one of my noob friends runs this Sanguine Bond deck...except it is far from playable. But, there is no netdeck (that I can find) of a Sanguine Bond deck. So we've been thinking what to add and what to take out, and we kind of just came up with this. The idea is to be like Esper control (or at least how I see it) but using Sanguine Bonds, Obzedat, and Debt to the Deathless + Crypt Ghast as win conditions. Of course, we take out the blue of Esper, but I think the substitutes are acceptable (even though they're not as good). So could y'all please look at this deck before we actually buy the cards for it (even though it is very cheap since we have the two Obzedats already). + Show Spoiler + Link to the deck on Tappedout: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/orzhov-sanguine-bond-unite/ Creature (11) 2x Alms Beast 2x Crypt Ghast 2x Obzedat, Ghost Council 3x Sin Collector 2x Vizkopa Guildmage Sorcery (9) 2x Debt to the Deathless 3x Duress 2x Merciless Eviction 2x Read the Bones Land (26) 4x Godless Shrine 4x Orzhov Guildgate 4x Plains 10x Swamp 4x Temple of Silence Instant (8) 2x Devour Flesh 3x Doom Blade 3x Ultimate Price Enchantment (6) 4x Sanguine Bond Should I go down to three? 2x Underworld Connections Sideboard (15) 1x Alms Beast 2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa 1x Crypt Ghast 1x Debt to the Deathless 2x Devour Flesh 1x Doom Blade 1x Duress 3x High Priest of Penance 1x Sin Collector 1x Ultimate Price 1x Vizkopa Guildmage So since I never really played in a legitimate standard tournament, I don't feel confident in knowing how to effectively sideboard. But my reasoning behind the crazy sideboard is based around whether we're fighting creature decks or not. So I would think if we're fighting a aggro-y creature deck, we would take out Crypt Ghast and Debt to the Deathless for more Alms Beast and a Guildmage and take out some Duress (Thoughtseize too expensive!) and Sin Collectors for more creature removal. However, if we're against decks that are not very creature focused or much slower, we can swap in an addition Crypt Ghast and Debt to the Deathless while taking out the Guildmage and Alms Beast (and adding in another Sin Collector and Duress too). And if it isn't such a black and white decision, there is much room to fine tune the deck (because of so many singletons in the sideboard). Also the Blood Baron is just there because it seems like a really good card, but I don't think we'll be getting it anytime soon. Again, I'm pretty new, so it would be greatly appreciated if I could get any advice whatsoever on this deck. After my friend and I made it, it seems so cool and actually decent, that we want to make this a reality. But we don't want to order the cards if it is actually just really bad and we're not seeing it. Thank you! | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
While I don't think the deck is terrible, you need to push your balance more towards coping with enemy aggression efficiently. you can't just 1 for 1 trade with these decks with your removal and your life gain kicks in too late. you could mix in some fiendslayer paladins or soldier of the pantheons which are both very solid early drops, replacing your guildmages and alms beasts. They do some lifegaining and generally trade favorably to slow people down. Not super budget cards but definitely affordable. Tithe drinker could also work, though she's a little more fragile, but she does let you get extra value out of your removal trading early game. Also, M-EFFING PACKRAT. In any deck like this, being able to T2 packrat into discard all the jank you can't play can save your ass so hard. You could consider playing 4 of those as an alternate budget, low curve defensive tool. Personally, I feel that you're 2/3rds of the way to the best colour set in the meta- G/W/B or junk, as it is affectionately known. I've been playing junk since day one and I can tell you it's a very powerful color set. If you can find your way to the shocklands that are pretty crucial to a 3 color deck, having access to the amazing early game enablers in G/W like caryatid and fleecemane lion as well as G/B's choice of the best answer-package in standard (abrupt decay+ putrefy+ golgari charm), this lets you survive long enough to combo out with your finishers. At the moment you're running a lot of very situational, easily blanked removal and you're often just going to die because your doomblades and ultimate prices don't hit anything relevant. Making sure you get to the point where you can use W/B's awesome stallers and finishers is important and the colour set just doesn't have those tools in the budget range. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
Also that Junk idea of the deck seems really cool. I'll definitely run that buy my friend and we'll work on it as a more long term project. Thank you for the help. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
If I were swap 8 cards out for a set of Soldier of the Pantheon and Fiendslayer Paladin, do you think that would cover my early weakness? Or do you think I should also add in Pack Rats? (Swapping out cards that aren't as effective early on) It's up to you. Any kind of alteration of a deck will involve a bit of tweaking to everything else to encourage synergies and prevent weaknesses. I think the most reliable threat to put in would be packrat- it's easy to cast with your black heavy base, punishes a lack of removal harshly and can be an alternate win-con late game. Of the two others, soldier is probably where you want to be going, perhaps with fiendslayers in the board. Fiendslayer is a little hard to cast for you and soldier of the panth does just as good a job of blocking dryad militant, rakdos cackler, boros reckoner, burning tree emissary, fleecemane, voice etc. I think a pretty reliable set would be 4 soldier, 4 packrat. You could possibly trim that to 3 and 3 or 2 and 4 and have a heavy sideboard against aggro decks, but that's really up to your testing of the meta around you. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 16 2013 02:28 MCMcEmcee wrote: I have yet to lose to junk with monoblue so I dunno how much I can recommend the color combination. I'm 3-1 against monoblue with my junk deck. Turns out Desecration Demon is pretty good against you if I kill Master of Waves every time you play him, and I have 5 maindeck and up to 8 sideboard ways to do that. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Don't think Junk is a bad deck, just think the match up isn't in the favor against a good MonoU player, its a narrow one for sure. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 17 2013 03:19 Judicator wrote: It depends on the player, no other deck is day/night as MonoU is dependent on the player skill. Don't see the point to Demon since they board in Rapids and the important cards in the match up is still annoying for Junk to handle, on top of the crappy mana base Junk is sitting on. Don't think Junk is a bad deck, just think the match up isn't in the favor against a good MonoU player, its a narrow one for sure. I agree, mostly because my version of the deck turns on their tidebinders so much, but the match is like 55/45 rather than 60/40 or worse. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 17 2013 08:26 deth2munkies wrote: I agree, mostly because my version of the deck turns on their tidebinders so much, but the match is like 55/45 rather than 60/40 or worse. That's where MonoU players dwell anyways, at least the good ones. The deck, like I wrote about after PT Theros, isn't easy to run and its literal 5-5 or slightly better/worse across the board. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I have yet to lose to junk with monoblue so I dunno how much I can recommend the color combination. Opposite for me. I've beaten the protour winning decks pretty reliably. golgari charm does a real number on the deck. I also play ready/willing which lets me swing in with everything and either force trades while gaining a bunch of life (willing) or just untap everything to block the crackback favorably (ready). Both of these cards really blowout rapid hybridzation as well, since they regenerate or make it indestructable and I still get the lizard. Basically, the one thing that gets me is flyers if I don't draw enough removal, quite possible in game one, unlikely in games 2-3. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 17 2013 11:17 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Opposite for me. I've beaten the protour winning decks pretty reliably. golgari charm does a real number on the deck. I also play ready/willing which lets me swing in with everything and either force trades while gaining a bunch of life (willing) or just untap everything to block the crackback favorably (ready). Both of these cards really blowout rapid hybridzation as well, since they regenerate or make it indestructable and I still get the lizard. Basically, the one thing that gets me is flyers if I don't draw enough removal, quite possible in game one, unlikely in games 2-3. See above, I doubt you are playing quality MonoU players consistently, just saying. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Definitely think more people should just try to race and use their removal to swing the race in their favor, rather than just try to trump individual cards. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I should point out that my deck is pretty agressive and tempo based rather than the grindier, controlly junk decks that most people run with obzedats and loads of removal. I don't have as much, but mine is easy to cast and very reliable. I can put a lot of hard to get rid of threats out alongside it as well. I've found mono blue just doesn't reliably have the tools to avoid a situation where they're having to throw their dudes under the buss each turn just to stay alive, and once they get to that point they have a very hard time winning. as mentioned, if you go like turn 1-2-3 cloudfin, judges, nightveil, I might have a little trouble. Outside of that, I'm pretty sure I can win 70-80% of hands vs monoblue. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
One can always tweak junk to get above 50% in two or so matchups, but the rest of your matchups go to shit. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 17 2013 15:40 MCMcEmcee wrote: Yeah dark confidant, sylvan library, and green sun's zenith are such poor card draw and library manipulation... Aren't I suppose to be the one saying that? So much acid :D Junk's library manipulation is limited but hardly terrible. Hell I would run Read the Bones more often than I would run Divination. The match up is close between good players because then it comes down to the draw. MonoU doesn't have Preordains/Ponders which makes their match ups worse across the board compared to previous standard iterations of these decks. I don't like the mana base though, and I don't think Junk is strong against any of the other decks that sees play in standard. It's certainly the underdog against Esper and UW. | ||
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