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On March 20 2007 14:27 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2007 13:21 SonuvBob wrote:
Yes, I'm asking if there are any restrictions on what KeSPA/IEG can do with them. what sort of restrictions are you talking about? Its already clear that they can redistribute on any channel willing to buy without paying ogn/mbc.... After that, what restrictions could there be?
I don't think anything is clear here. All we have to work with is an article from an enraged fan, FiFo articles that are apparently biased in favor of KeSPA, and some spin from a guy who works for IEG.
I can't imagine OGN and MBC signing anything that lets IEG sell broadcasts that include OGN/MBC's own commentary to OGN and MBC's competitors. There's gotta be some kind of restriction.
The IEG guy was talking about bringing Proleague broadcasts to Europe and America. If IEG sells the streams to some broadcaster in Europe, I doubt OGN and MBC would care much. One of the previous articles said OGN and MBC would be guaranteed to be the "primary" broadcasters or something like that. So I'm wondering if the contract limits who else IEG can sell the broadcasting rights to.
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The IEG guy was talking about bringing Proleague broadcasts to Europe and America. If IEG sells the streams to some broadcaster in Europe, I doubt OGN and MBC would care much. One of the previous articles said OGN and MBC would be guaranteed to be the "primary" broadcasters or something like that. So I'm wondering if the contract limits who else IEG can sell the broadcasting rights to.
Bringing Proleague broadcasts to Europe and America ? :D :D
That sounds really good ! 
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Man seriously, this article has opened my eyes, I can't believe how retarded are the KeSPA/IEG people, I mean, what in the big fuck?!.
Even thought, some things are still yet to be revealed, most of the post it's true, and what they are asking for is ridiculous amount of money, and in a shorter sentence, "They are asking to get MBC/OGN fucked."
Thanks for posting this, it's like one of the best feautred threads in a long long while.
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A lot of South Koreans were helding signs saying "We Love E-Sports" in Shinhan Masters.
I think this really affected the outcome of the actual situation.
It seems to me that the impact of this in South Korea had a good ending.
I admire those South Korean with the signs even I didnt though of something yet so simple but true.
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On March 20 2007 16:22 [Carlodajin] wrote:
A lot of South Koreans were helding signs saying "We Love E-Sports" in Shinhan Masters.
I think this really affected the outcome of the actual situation.
It seems to me that the impact of this in South Korea had a good ending.
I admire those South Korean with the signs even I didnt though of something yet so simple but true.
Well, while we were (Day, haji, Panorama, and some other people form TL.net) watching the Shinhan Masters thing, we were wondering what those signs meant, and we came into the conclusion that the fans what the thing to be solved, in good terms for both sides of the people.
If the first post is 100% true, and well, KeSPA and IEG are really pushing it this far, I think OGN and MBC will part ways with the PL people, and they will start one for them.
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On March 20 2007 16:22 [Carlodajin] wrote:
A lot of South Koreans were helding signs saying "We Love E-Sports" in Shinhan Masters.
I think this really affected the outcome of the actual situation.
I guess you missed the part where the government had to step in
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On March 20 2007 15:42 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2007 14:27 fusionsdf wrote:On March 20 2007 13:21 SonuvBob wrote:
Yes, I'm asking if there are any restrictions on what KeSPA/IEG can do with them. what sort of restrictions are you talking about? Its already clear that they can redistribute on any channel willing to buy without paying ogn/mbc.... After that, what restrictions could there be? I don't think anything is clear here. All we have to work with is an article from an enraged fan, FiFo articles that are apparently biased in favor of KeSPA, and some spin from a guy who works for IEG. I can't imagine OGN and MBC signing anything that lets IEG sell broadcasts that include OGN/MBC's own commentary to OGN and MBC's competitors. There's gotta be some kind of restriction. The IEG guy was talking about bringing Proleague broadcasts to Europe and America. If IEG sells the streams to some broadcaster in Europe, I doubt OGN and MBC would care much. One of the previous articles said OGN and MBC would be guaranteed to be the "primary" broadcasters or something like that. So I'm wondering if the contract limits who else IEG can sell the broadcasting rights to.
OGNMBC didnt give in. We have no idea what the final offer was. But losing all your teams and players is a hard thing for either OGN or MBC to negotiate against.
It would be like investing in a formula one station and having all the drivers refuse to drive - you still have the channel and the cars, but how many people are going to watch that?
+ Show Spoiler +
Trick analogy. No one watches formula one anyways.
If a broadcast could be sold to europe, why do you think OGN and MBC havent up until this point?
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Because they have no interest in doing so, given the need for translations or foreign casters, and the general apathy the majority of the pro gaming scene seems to hold towards foreigners.
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This is horrible.
There basically using the progamers to blackmail OGN/MBC into screwing themselves over.
I hope they can come to some sort of agreement as this current model just doesn't look very feasible from the OGN/MBC side.
What do they progamers have to say about this? Pawns in a high stakes chess game...
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Or perhaps zealots in a high stakes BW game... (cheap and in supply, but vital if you want to stay alive!).
... I suck.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Thanks for the notes. Some opinion of my own:
The argument of saying that KeSPA should work for the fans by reducing Proleague and enlarging individual leagues is ridiculous, and quite stupid honestly.
Though I agree 5 days a week is a bit much for the fans, is it REALLY harming the future of eSports?
In order for Starcraft to continue to grow and be globalized, we have to get the PLAYERS happy. Of course getting the FANS to be happy is important too, since the fans are what makes something a success, but without Progamers, it also becomes a failure. But think, if there's less Proleague, that means less chances and opportunities for other players to play, which means less motivation for people to become progamers, which is less progamers, which is less entertainment, which is less fans, and so on...
But with the expansion of Proleague, which is a great way to reach out to multiple gamers, companies, and teams, you provide more opportunities for other players to play, which means more people will try to be progamers, and more entertainment, more fans, etc.
Think about it, would you want to be a progamer if you knew the chances of you getting on TV and showing your skill was so slim? But with Proleague, you can get good enough to join a team, and perhaps be good enough to participate in team battles and such.
With Proleague the past 2 years, we've found so many new-found talents that we would have never known if it was not for proleague. JaeDong is a good example. He is a powerhouse who is expected to be as good as Savior, July, YarnC... he's one to be expected at the top. Yet he's only been in starleagues once, and was eliminated the first round. But his 11-0 record at Proleague was what made people be impressed by him so much.
In the end, the expansion of a league that provides opportunities to gamers, like Proleague, is ultimiately the better solution for eSports.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On March 20 2007 11:37 InRaged wrote:SonuvBob, VOD salling is major MBC/OGN's income afaik. And keyword there is "non-exclusively" — that makes this deal looks like a joke. Show nested quote +On March 20 2007 10:08 Locke. wrote:
I honestly still don't understand how Kespa sold Broadcasting Rights if they didn't own them Look how I understand this =) Kespa sold Rights of Kespa's proleague (Kespa Cup I suppose). Owner of Original proleague is still OGN, but OGN can't launch it since "Proteams in Kespa may boycott, as they boycotted individual leagues". So for me Kespa clearly looks like extortioner.
This is how I look at it...
Proleague was created by OGN.
KeSPA was created to handle eSports in general all together.
Trusting KeSPA, OGN started to give KeSPA some power.
KeSPA slowly started to grow, becoming more and more influential and powerful.
Eventually, KeSPA's power became as large or larger than OGN's power.
That's when they pull the plug.
Imaging a piece of land. OGN rules it. They give some land to KeSPA, perhaps so they will harvest the land and produce some goods. KeSPA does a good job, OGN starts giving them more and more land. The process grows and after 2 years, KeSPA now owns half of the land. KeSPA now has enough power to over rule OGN and do things their own way.
That's how I look at it, atleast.
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Well.. OGN owns the land, but Kespa owns the workers.
The land won't be productive if there's noone to work it...
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 20 2007 18:18 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2007 11:37 InRaged wrote:SonuvBob, VOD salling is major MBC/OGN's income afaik. And keyword there is "non-exclusively" — that makes this deal looks like a joke. On March 20 2007 10:08 Locke. wrote:
I honestly still don't understand how Kespa sold Broadcasting Rights if they didn't own them Look how I understand this =) Kespa sold Rights of Kespa's proleague (Kespa Cup I suppose). Owner of Original proleague is still OGN, but OGN can't launch it since "Proteams in Kespa may boycott, as they boycotted individual leagues". So for me Kespa clearly looks like extortioner. This is how I look at it... Proleague was created by OGN. KeSPA was created to handle eSports in general all together. Trusting KeSPA, OGN started to give KeSPA some power. KeSPA slowly started to grow, becoming more and more influential and powerful. Eventually, KeSPA's power became as large or larger than OGN's power. That's when they pull the plug. Imaging a piece of land. OGN rules it. They give some land to KeSPA, perhaps so they will harvest the land and produce some goods. KeSPA does a good job, OGN starts giving them more and more land. The process grows and after 2 years, KeSPA now owns half of the land. KeSPA now has enough power to over rule OGN and do things their own way. That's how I look at it, atleast.
My views are also similar to that, except that I think KeSPA's power far exceeds that of OGN &MBC Game. Really, OGN &MBC Game would be quite powerless if they didn't have the support of the fans. Without the fans, they become just a broadcasting company.
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I don't get all the OGN/MBC fanboyism. I don't think it's healthy in the long run for the tournaments to be run by the same company that broadcasts them. The fact that Starcraft is a propriety game is also a really bad thing (potentially) for SC as an e-sport, but that can't really be avoided.
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I feel sorry my English is not perfect, but the original article is pretty inflammatory but be featured thread of Starcraft Gallery in dcinside.com with support of users.
I promised I'll give more information, but they haven't officially release specific terms and there are only rumors yet.
but it seems they agreed to start leagues anyway.
In my opinion
1. Government came in and tried to settle the matter. They didn't want government to be angry. especially nowaday Kespa is getting some money from government "to develop e-Sports"
2. Shinhan Bank planned to sponsor proleague.(not officially announced) They may be afraid if Shinhan bank would withdraw sponsorship.
3. Fans started big demonstration (Actually some fans mailed Shinhan bank not to sponsor proleague)
We should wait and see.
They just agreed something general so they are still negotiating about money and specifics
there are too many rumors, which non-Korean speaker cannot access. Some are believable, others aren't
but Korean fans definitely have more information than you and most Korean fans(80-90% I guess) supports OGN/MBCgame
I hope you believe Korean fans.
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On March 20 2007 19:32 Manatea wrote:
but Korean fans definitely have more information than you and most Korean fans(80-90% I guess) supports OGN/MBCgame
I hope you believe Korean fans.
It doesn't really matter what fans support (unless they're really so serious as to actually permanently boycott any new leagues), the general public is pretty ignorant about business matters usually. I'm not saying Kespa is necessarily right in this instance, but the general thing they're trying to do (separate the tournaments from the broadcasting) is a good idea for the future of pro SC. Most people seem to be just be supporting OGN/MBC out of blind loyalty (because they "started it") or out of childish affront at IEG/Kespa's supposed "greed", as if OGN/MBC aren't trying to make as much money as possible themselves.
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so any news now from Korea?
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EPT
