Thoughts on Savior - Page 9
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17722 Posts
| ||
mR.Sephiroth
Germany296 Posts
His consistent will reach to his peak when he get a new salary | ||
Sadir
Vatican City State1176 Posts
A thing to saviors muta harrasment: It is for sure not as spectacular and game instant game winning as july's was, but if you watch his play you can't get rid of the feeling, that he is just keeping pressure on his opponent, keep him in his base, while the evil zerg has map control and can grab another expansion. He wants his mutalisks to be a thread as long as possible and therefor he sacrifice some kills, but he doesn't take any risk of loosing some of his force. I watched some savior replays and saw him muta harrassing and just thought: "hu, why didn't he killed this marine or this scv?" | ||
VerticalHorizon
United States415 Posts
So here are my thoughts... On Dominance It's funny when I see a lot of people hating Savior for reasons like "he is so dominating" or "he takes the competitive fun out of BW" or "he wins TOO much... he is like a robot" - it's amusing because these are the EXACT same things people said when Boxer began to dominate. Do any of you guys remember that far back? Those years... late 2000, 2001, 2002.... when Boxer began his meteoric rise to legendary status... there was SO much controversy back then, too. People were crying about how lame Boxer was compared to Grrr..., how he was simply a soulless machine who just practice 10 hrs a day, how he wasn't a true people's champion like Grrr..., how he wasn't FUN or COOL like Grrr.... Almost every hardcore Grrr fan HATED Boxer for taking his rightful throne... Now he is the Emperor. He needs no introduction. 99% of BW fans smile when they see him and they carry him in their hearts whenever and wherever he is, whether he is in the army or entering the stage for an official match. It's funny because when a young teen burst into the scene, powered through a series of MSL victories, and destroyed his opponents to challenge Boxer for the next title of Terran God... flaunting the title NaDa (which in Korean translates loosely to "IT IS I" or "Here I am")... there was controversy then too. People argued, saying "he is simply machine" "he is just produce, macro, attack" "he does not have the heart of a true emperor." It's funny because when a young man, handpicked by the Emperor himself to succeed him, to be his heir, to rule the kingdom of BW... when such a man rose to his rightful station, destroying all his opponents (whether they were Protoss, Terran, or Zerg), fucking humiliating NaDa, and taking his place by ripping the crown from the hands of his own mentor Boxer.... the Terran war-machine iloveoov, he too was hated and hot debate raged over him. People made SCATHING remarks, made horrible fun of his ugly looks, of his brutish appearance. Haters said "this one is even more robotic and machine-like than NaDa" "he has no brilliance" "he is just epitome of macro, he takes the FUN out of SC." There is no doubt that Savior is THE premier dominant player in the BW scene today. And as I read the remarks that all these anti-Savior fans make, I can't help but think how similar this young man is, to the great gods of BW who came before him. He is like the great new storm that approaches, and controversy and argument, hate and love, passion and conflict rage about him as he ASCENDS to his throne. Before you compare him so quickly to the great ones before him, saying that he is not at all like Boxer, or NaDa, or iloveoov, you guys should take a moment to remember how much of a stir those three caused when they made their entrances onto the pro scene. On Style Savior is the closest thing to the perfect Zerg you will ever see. Those who say that he is not as "cool" as other Zergs (such as July or Gorush or Yellow) because he has no "style" are not fully understanding what is going on. July is God of War because that is how he MUST be. He cannot make the switch to perfect macro/reactionary play at such a high level, so instead he plays toward the strengths he has -> taking the initiative, forcing fights, battling in micro and tactics. Yellow is Storm Zerg because he MUST be. He does not have the lategame control or multi-tasking skill to play a mass-expo game, so he powers to hive tech and wins on small-numbers control and micro tricks. Savior is limitless. If July is God of War and Gorush is Wizard of Management and Yellow is the Storm Zerg, then Savior is simply God of Zerg. Why? Because he has shown, without a doubt, the ability to play any and every style of Zerg ever conceived. You think July is superior to Savior because you see Savior taking 3-4 gas every game? If Savior desires, he can play the small unit control game. Don't be so naive... Savior has demonstrated time and again that he has the unit control, the micro, and the timing to play an aggressive game like July. He is the ESSENCE of Zerg, he adapts to each map, and he exploits his race's strength on every map according to the necessities of the situation. His style is the style of a true champion. He is not limited to one "brand" of strategy... he does what is necessary to win, and he does it as close to perfectly as we have yet seen. His style reminds me of only two people... Boxer and NaDa You know why? Because these two are also the only two great ones in the history of BW to show the adaptive skill and possess the fluid potential to play any and every style. You guys are ignorant if you think Boxer and NaDa also stuck ONLY to one style. Boxer realized that his micro-oriented style of play was WEAK against modern Protoss, and one year later, we see him forcing macro games and playing the fast expo openings. Yes, he uses micro builds too... but THAT is not a reflection of his "one style." It is just a REMINDER to us, that he can use both micro AND macro builds... that he can win on R-Point with timed macro pushes and he can win on Requiem with 8rax. And NaDa... haha... when I saw him dominate IOPS, I thought "this is a Terran who is like water." Because NaDa is like Savior... he has no style. He simply has the unlimited skill and potential to play any style he chooses and deems necessary. We have seen cheese builds, we have seen macrofests... he plays as is necessary. Just like Savior. 9pool, 3 hatch, muta harass, lurkling, hydralurk, defiler... low-eco, high-eco... mass expo, cautious expo... fast tech... Savior's style can't be defined and I think that's part of what pisses people off. Because when you can DEFINE something, it means you can UNDERSTAND it, like how people can understand July's style. But you can't completely 100% understand Savior, because he is fluid. He is water. He is the liquid Zerg who can boil, steam, crush, or wear down any opponent and fit through any crack. On His Victory over NaDa I think people forget just how hard Savior's Royal Road has been. He BLED against Midas. Iris PIERCED him cruelly in the semis. Savior's has had a hard road indeed. Yet against NaDa, he pretty much dominated. Now, people might argue, say that NaDa had a bad day, NaDa could take Savior any other day, blah blah blah. People get angry when they think about NaDa losing to Savior. But I don't know why you should. Because it seemed inevitable to me... When I watched the introduction to Savior vs. NaDa, I was uncertain. Then I saw Game 1 and in the course of it, I was even more confused. I saw two amazing SPIRITS battling each other. Previously, when I mentioned water, I should have said that water dominates anything and everything. It will drown, crush, grind, slip, and wear down anything. But what happens when water terran fights water zerg? What happens when two masters of their craft battle? It comes down to will and it comes down to sheer FORCE. It comes down to what Um Jae-Kyung (fat commentator on the right, the "Overlord") calls "ki" (an ancient Asian term). It is what is called "spirit energy" or "life force." Game 1 of the OSL Shinhan 3 Finals was a battle of ki. It was a war between the two players' FORCES. And I saw that Savior's ki was unflinching, it had pure confidence, it did not bow down before NaDa. But when I saw NaDa, I saw, at first, arrogant strength... then doubt... then the Terran master's ki was scattered. Watch Game 1. You see NaDa's force. It is so obvious and rampant on the field. If I was a SC unit on that battlefield, I would crawl in a hole to hide from the Terran commander's strength of WILL. But Savior was like true water... when NaDa's force was too strong, he flowed past it. When NaDa was weak, he pounded at him like waves. NaDa's FORCE began to falter. And Savior won. That's when I knew Savior would win the series. Never mind the result of Game 2. The Bo5 match ended at Game 1. Because NaDa's force was broken in Game 1. And that's when people should have seen that you cannot get angry at Savior. Because his time had come. Don't get angry about Shinhan 3. It was simply... Savior's coronation. Do you cry and wail and curse when the young prince takes the king's crown? No. Because that's the natural order of things. NaDa was and still is a great king. He is one of those timeless kings, like Boxer, who always has the heart of the people, who can take his crown back at any time. But not that day. And I don't think, not for a while yet. Because it is, as I have said, Savior's time. When a meteor crashes onto the Earth, it is not welcomed with open arms. It burns through the heat of the atmosphere and EXPLODES onto the surface... Like Savior has... like all who have come before him have. Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov,.... Savior | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27118 Posts
In addition, while some minor terrans have adjusted by making firebats, NaDa lost game one because of it. Time and again savior defended with minimal lurkers and swarm. A round of 7 firebats from the barracks rather than 7 marines + some dmatrix from his mass of vessels would have won NaDa that game. Terrans need to adapt. I was impressed by NaDas mechanics in the series, but not by his brains. He never stood a chance. | ||
Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
I want to see Reach winning a league again now. Or July. Nada please dont enter another 2 year slump next OSL. | ||
exihea
United States413 Posts
| ||
starter[eTel]
Philippines50 Posts
Savior is a great player. But there's something he's lacking. | ||
QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
On February 26 2007 16:01 Manifesto7 wrote: In the end it will have to be about terran changing their minds about disposable armies. Savior is very good at saving and retreating units, while the vast majority of terran players make an army, attack, lose it, and use their next one. They dont unseige tanks under swarm, and they dont repair vessels. With almost 400 apm, NaDa should be able to do that. In addition, while some minor terrans have adjusted by making firebats, NaDa lost game one because of it. Time and again savior defended with minimal lurkers and swarm. A round of 7 firebats from the barracks rather than 7 marines + some dmatrix from his mass of vessels would have won NaDa that game. Terrans need to adapt. I was impressed by NaDas mechanics in the series, but not by his brains. He never stood a chance. See, when I told people Nada was more mechanical of a player than a strategist, I got flamed for it. I hope people see what I mean now ._. Christ, this reminds me, of how badly i want YellOw to win a damn fucking final in his life..GOD. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
It was a beautiful thing to watch. | ||
narreth
Canada124 Posts
On February 26 2007 16:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Nada was completely, utterly broken after the first game of that series. Savior just walked through him like he wasn't even there. It was a beautiful thing to watch. It was a terrible thing to watch | ||
The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
It was a beautiful and terrible thing to watch, like a natural disaster on the National Geographic Channel. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27118 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27118 Posts
On February 26 2007 15:58 VerticalHorizon wrote: Hmm... I have a lot of words to say on the subject... I'll try to organize them as best as I can. I've been a fan of Savior for a looooong time now... ever since I saw a realllly old game of him as IPXZerg vs. a relatively famous terran on LT, and he went 3 hatch straight defiler and won on pure defiler usage alone... I thought it showed tremendous skill and balls for a Zerg to pull that kind of play. So here are my thoughts... On Dominance It's funny when I see a lot of people hating Savior for reasons like "he is so dominating" or "he takes the competitive fun out of BW" or "he wins TOO much... he is like a robot" - it's amusing because these are the EXACT same things people said when Boxer began to dominate. Do any of you guys remember that far back? Those years... late 2000, 2001, 2002.... when Boxer began his meteoric rise to legendary status... there was SO much controversy back then, too. People were crying about how lame Boxer was compared to Grrr..., how he was simply a soulless machine who just practice 10 hrs a day, how he wasn't a true people's champion like Grrr..., how he wasn't FUN or COOL like Grrr.... Almost every hardcore Grrr fan HATED Boxer for taking his rightful throne... Now he is the Emperor. He needs no introduction. 99% of BW fans smile when they see him and they carry him in their hearts whenever and wherever he is, whether he is in the army or entering the stage for an official match. It's funny because when a young teen burst into the scene, powered through a series of MSL victories, and destroyed his opponents to challenge Boxer for the next title of Terran God... flaunting the title NaDa (which in Korean translates loosely to "IT IS I" or "Here I am")... there was controversy then too. People argued, saying "he is simply machine" "he is just produce, macro, attack" "he does not have the heart of a true emperor." It's funny because when a young man, handpicked by the Emperor himself to succeed him, to be his heir, to rule the kingdom of BW... when such a man rose to his rightful station, destroying all his opponents (whether they were Protoss, Terran, or Zerg), fucking humiliating NaDa, and taking his place by ripping the crown from the hands of his own mentor Boxer.... the Terran war-machine iloveoov, he too was hated and hot debate raged over him. People made SCATHING remarks, made horrible fun of his ugly looks, of his brutish appearance. Haters said "this one is even more robotic and machine-like than NaDa" "he has no brilliance" "he is just epitome of macro, he takes the FUN out of SC." There is no doubt that Savior is THE premier dominant player in the BW scene today. And as I read the remarks that all these anti-Savior fans make, I can't help but think how similar this young man is, to the great gods of BW who came before him. He is like the great new storm that approaches, and controversy and argument, hate and love, passion and conflict rage about him as he ASCENDS to his throne. Before you compare him so quickly to the great ones before him, saying that he is not at all like Boxer, or NaDa, or iloveoov, you guys should take a moment to remember how much of a stir those three caused when they made their entrances onto the pro scene. On Style Savior is the closest thing to the perfect Zerg you will ever see. Those who say that he is not as "cool" as other Zergs (such as July or Gorush or Yellow) because he has no "style" are not fully understanding what is going on. July is God of War because that is how he MUST be. He cannot make the switch to perfect macro/reactionary play at such a high level, so instead he plays toward the strengths he has -> taking the initiative, forcing fights, battling in micro and tactics. Yellow is Storm Zerg because he MUST be. He does not have the lategame control or multi-tasking skill to play a mass-expo game, so he powers to hive tech and wins on small-numbers control and micro tricks. Savior is limitless. If July is God of War and Gorush is Wizard of Management and Yellow is the Storm Zerg, then Savior is simply God of Zerg. Why? Because he has shown, without a doubt, the ability to play any and every style of Zerg ever conceived. You think July is superior to Savior because you see Savior taking 3-4 gas every game? If Savior desires, he can play the small unit control game. Don't be so naive... Savior has demonstrated time and again that he has the unit control, the micro, and the timing to play an aggressive game like July. He is the ESSENCE of Zerg, he adapts to each map, and he exploits his race's strength on every map according to the necessities of the situation. His style is the style of a true champion. He is not limited to one "brand" of strategy... he does what is necessary to win, and he does it as close to perfectly as we have yet seen. His style reminds me of only two people... Boxer and NaDa You know why? Because these two are also the only two great ones in the history of BW to show the adaptive skill and possess the fluid potential to play any and every style. You guys are ignorant if you think Boxer and NaDa also stuck ONLY to one style. Boxer realized that his micro-oriented style of play was WEAK against modern Protoss, and one year later, we see him forcing macro games and playing the fast expo openings. Yes, he uses micro builds too... but THAT is not a reflection of his "one style." It is just a REMINDER to us, that he can use both micro AND macro builds... that he can win on R-Point with timed macro pushes and he can win on Requiem with 8rax. And NaDa... haha... when I saw him dominate IOPS, I thought "this is a Terran who is like water." Because NaDa is like Savior... he has no style. He simply has the unlimited skill and potential to play any style he chooses and deems necessary. We have seen cheese builds, we have seen macrofests... he plays as is necessary. Just like Savior. 9pool, 3 hatch, muta harass, lurkling, hydralurk, defiler... low-eco, high-eco... mass expo, cautious expo... fast tech... Savior's style can't be defined and I think that's part of what pisses people off. Because when you can DEFINE something, it means you can UNDERSTAND it, like how people can understand July's style. But you can't completely 100% understand Savior, because he is fluid. He is water. He is the liquid Zerg who can boil, steam, crush, or wear down any opponent and fit through any crack. On His Victory over NaDa I think people forget just how hard Savior's Royal Road has been. He BLED against Midas. Iris PIERCED him cruelly in the semis. Savior's has had a hard road indeed. Yet against NaDa, he pretty much dominated. Now, people might argue, say that NaDa had a bad day, NaDa could take Savior any other day, blah blah blah. People get angry when they think about NaDa losing to Savior. But I don't know why you should. Because it seemed inevitable to me... When I watched the introduction to Savior vs. NaDa, I was uncertain. Then I saw Game 1 and in the course of it, I was even more confused. I saw two amazing SPIRITS battling each other. Previously, when I mentioned water, I should have said that water dominates anything and everything. It will drown, crush, grind, slip, and wear down anything. But what happens when water terran fights water zerg? What happens when two masters of their craft battle? It comes down to will and it comes down to sheer FORCE. It comes down to what Um Jae-Kyung (fat commentator on the right, the "Overlord") calls "ki" (an ancient Asian term). It is what is called "spirit energy" or "life force." Game 1 of the OSL Shinhan 3 Finals was a battle of ki. It was a war between the two players' FORCES. And I saw that Savior's ki was unflinching, it had pure confidence, it did not bow down before NaDa. But when I saw NaDa, I saw, at first, arrogant strength... then doubt... then the Terran master's ki was scattered. Watch Game 1. You see NaDa's force. It is so obvious and rampant on the field. If I was a SC unit on that battlefield, I would crawl in a hole to hide from the Terran commander's strength of WILL. But Savior was like true water... when NaDa's force was too strong, he flowed past it. When NaDa was weak, he pounded at him like waves. NaDa's FORCE began to falter. And Savior won. That's when I knew Savior would win the series. Never mind the result of Game 2. The Bo5 match ended at Game 1. Because NaDa's force was broken in Game 1. And that's when people should have seen that you cannot get angry at Savior. Because his time had come. Don't get angry about Shinhan 3. It was simply... Savior's coronation. Do you cry and wail and curse when the young prince takes the king's crown? No. Because that's the natural order of things. NaDa was and still is a great king. He is one of those timeless kings, like Boxer, who always has the heart of the people, who can take his crown back at any time. But not that day. And I don't think, not for a while yet. Because it is, as I have said, Savior's time. When a meteor crashes onto the Earth, it is not welcomed with open arms. It burns through the heat of the atmosphere and EXPLODES onto the surface... Like Savior has... like all who have come before him have. Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov,.... Savior i BELIEVE sir, I BELIEVE! This is really a great post. I also felt that way after game 1. Watching it you simply knew that NaDa had used up everything inside him, and that there was nothing left. I really feel like that was the best game of the whole tournament. Could NaDa have won? Sure, had he made some adjustments, added some firebats, used his dropship earlier I think he would have pulled it out. However, he fought the NaDa way, the way he HAD to win in order to truely defeat Savior, and found himself lacking. Savior is here, but for how long? That is really the answer. | ||
RowdierBob
Australia12799 Posts
On February 26 2007 16:01 Manifesto7 wrote: In the end it will have to be about terran changing their minds about disposable armies. Savior is very good at saving and retreating units, while the vast majority of terran players make an army, attack, lose it, and use their next one. They dont unseige tanks under swarm, and they dont repair vessels. With almost 400 apm, NaDa should be able to do that. In addition, while some minor terrans have adjusted by making firebats, NaDa lost game one because of it. Time and again savior defended with minimal lurkers and swarm. A round of 7 firebats from the barracks rather than 7 marines + some dmatrix from his mass of vessels would have won NaDa that game. Terrans need to adapt. I was impressed by NaDas mechanics in the series, but not by his brains. He never stood a chance. Good post. I remember the days where that initial group of MnMs were so important to the 1 base terrans. I really think terran players need to show more variety in their builds vs Savior. They're far too predictable and easy for him to counter atm. 1 base terrans are often harder to play as there are more options you have to think about such as dropship ferry, quick tank, mnm sunk busters etc. Hopefully we'll see some more diverse terran play as a result of Saviors play. | ||
HungerForMore
Afghanistan420 Posts
Savior is just to good to be true, that's why people dislike him - They know that he will only be beaten if he starts slumping. Weird, I actually only wanted to write a few lines :p. | ||
sweatpants
United States940 Posts
On February 26 2007 15:58 VerticalHorizon wrote: Hmm... I have a lot of words to say on the subject... I'll try to organize them as best as I can. I've been a fan of Savior for a looooong time now... ever since I saw a realllly old game of him as IPXZerg vs. a relatively famous terran on LT, and he went 3 hatch straight defiler and won on pure defiler usage alone... I thought it showed tremendous skill and balls for a Zerg to pull that kind of play. So here are my thoughts... On Dominance It's funny when I see a lot of people hating Savior for reasons like "he is so dominating" or "he takes the competitive fun out of BW" or "he wins TOO much... he is like a robot" - it's amusing because these are the EXACT same things people said when Boxer began to dominate. Do any of you guys remember that far back? Those years... late 2000, 2001, 2002.... when Boxer began his meteoric rise to legendary status... there was SO much controversy back then, too. People were crying about how lame Boxer was compared to Grrr..., how he was simply a soulless machine who just practice 10 hrs a day, how he wasn't a true people's champion like Grrr..., how he wasn't FUN or COOL like Grrr.... Almost every hardcore Grrr fan HATED Boxer for taking his rightful throne... Now he is the Emperor. He needs no introduction. 99% of BW fans smile when they see him and they carry him in their hearts whenever and wherever he is, whether he is in the army or entering the stage for an official match. It's funny because when a young teen burst into the scene, powered through a series of MSL victories, and destroyed his opponents to challenge Boxer for the next title of Terran God... flaunting the title NaDa (which in Korean translates loosely to "IT IS I" or "Here I am")... there was controversy then too. People argued, saying "he is simply machine" "he is just produce, macro, attack" "he does not have the heart of a true emperor." It's funny because when a young man, handpicked by the Emperor himself to succeed him, to be his heir, to rule the kingdom of BW... when such a man rose to his rightful station, destroying all his opponents (whether they were Protoss, Terran, or Zerg), fucking humiliating NaDa, and taking his place by ripping the crown from the hands of his own mentor Boxer.... the Terran war-machine iloveoov, he too was hated and hot debate raged over him. People made SCATHING remarks, made horrible fun of his ugly looks, of his brutish appearance. Haters said "this one is even more robotic and machine-like than NaDa" "he has no brilliance" "he is just epitome of macro, he takes the FUN out of SC." There is no doubt that Savior is THE premier dominant player in the BW scene today. And as I read the remarks that all these anti-Savior fans make, I can't help but think how similar this young man is, to the great gods of BW who came before him. He is like the great new storm that approaches, and controversy and argument, hate and love, passion and conflict rage about him as he ASCENDS to his throne. Before you compare him so quickly to the great ones before him, saying that he is not at all like Boxer, or NaDa, or iloveoov, you guys should take a moment to remember how much of a stir those three caused when they made their entrances onto the pro scene. On Style Savior is the closest thing to the perfect Zerg you will ever see. Those who say that he is not as "cool" as other Zergs (such as July or Gorush or Yellow) because he has no "style" are not fully understanding what is going on. July is God of War because that is how he MUST be. He cannot make the switch to perfect macro/reactionary play at such a high level, so instead he plays toward the strengths he has -> taking the initiative, forcing fights, battling in micro and tactics. Yellow is Storm Zerg because he MUST be. He does not have the lategame control or multi-tasking skill to play a mass-expo game, so he powers to hive tech and wins on small-numbers control and micro tricks. Savior is limitless. If July is God of War and Gorush is Wizard of Management and Yellow is the Storm Zerg, then Savior is simply God of Zerg. Why? Because he has shown, without a doubt, the ability to play any and every style of Zerg ever conceived. You think July is superior to Savior because you see Savior taking 3-4 gas every game? If Savior desires, he can play the small unit control game. Don't be so naive... Savior has demonstrated time and again that he has the unit control, the micro, and the timing to play an aggressive game like July. He is the ESSENCE of Zerg, he adapts to each map, and he exploits his race's strength on every map according to the necessities of the situation. His style is the style of a true champion. He is not limited to one "brand" of strategy... he does what is necessary to win, and he does it as close to perfectly as we have yet seen. His style reminds me of only two people... Boxer and NaDa You know why? Because these two are also the only two great ones in the history of BW to show the adaptive skill and possess the fluid potential to play any and every style. You guys are ignorant if you think Boxer and NaDa also stuck ONLY to one style. Boxer realized that his micro-oriented style of play was WEAK against modern Protoss, and one year later, we see him forcing macro games and playing the fast expo openings. Yes, he uses micro builds too... but THAT is not a reflection of his "one style." It is just a REMINDER to us, that he can use both micro AND macro builds... that he can win on R-Point with timed macro pushes and he can win on Requiem with 8rax. And NaDa... haha... when I saw him dominate IOPS, I thought "this is a Terran who is like water." Because NaDa is like Savior... he has no style. He simply has the unlimited skill and potential to play any style he chooses and deems necessary. We have seen cheese builds, we have seen macrofests... he plays as is necessary. Just like Savior. 9pool, 3 hatch, muta harass, lurkling, hydralurk, defiler... low-eco, high-eco... mass expo, cautious expo... fast tech... Savior's style can't be defined and I think that's part of what pisses people off. Because when you can DEFINE something, it means you can UNDERSTAND it, like how people can understand July's style. But you can't completely 100% understand Savior, because he is fluid. He is water. He is the liquid Zerg who can boil, steam, crush, or wear down any opponent and fit through any crack. On His Victory over NaDa I think people forget just how hard Savior's Royal Road has been. He BLED against Midas. Iris PIERCED him cruelly in the semis. Savior's has had a hard road indeed. Yet against NaDa, he pretty much dominated. Now, people might argue, say that NaDa had a bad day, NaDa could take Savior any other day, blah blah blah. People get angry when they think about NaDa losing to Savior. But I don't know why you should. Because it seemed inevitable to me... When I watched the introduction to Savior vs. NaDa, I was uncertain. Then I saw Game 1 and in the course of it, I was even more confused. I saw two amazing SPIRITS battling each other. Previously, when I mentioned water, I should have said that water dominates anything and everything. It will drown, crush, grind, slip, and wear down anything. But what happens when water terran fights water zerg? What happens when two masters of their craft battle? It comes down to will and it comes down to sheer FORCE. It comes down to what Um Jae-Kyung (fat commentator on the right, the "Overlord") calls "ki" (an ancient Asian term). It is what is called "spirit energy" or "life force." Game 1 of the OSL Shinhan 3 Finals was a battle of ki. It was a war between the two players' FORCES. And I saw that Savior's ki was unflinching, it had pure confidence, it did not bow down before NaDa. But when I saw NaDa, I saw, at first, arrogant strength... then doubt... then the Terran master's ki was scattered. Watch Game 1. You see NaDa's force. It is so obvious and rampant on the field. If I was a SC unit on that battlefield, I would crawl in a hole to hide from the Terran commander's strength of WILL. But Savior was like true water... when NaDa's force was too strong, he flowed past it. When NaDa was weak, he pounded at him like waves. NaDa's FORCE began to falter. And Savior won. That's when I knew Savior would win the series. Never mind the result of Game 2. The Bo5 match ended at Game 1. Because NaDa's force was broken in Game 1. And that's when people should have seen that you cannot get angry at Savior. Because his time had come. Don't get angry about Shinhan 3. It was simply... Savior's coronation. Do you cry and wail and curse when the young prince takes the king's crown? No. Because that's the natural order of things. NaDa was and still is a great king. He is one of those timeless kings, like Boxer, who always has the heart of the people, who can take his crown back at any time. But not that day. And I don't think, not for a while yet. Because it is, as I have said, Savior's time. When a meteor crashes onto the Earth, it is not welcomed with open arms. It burns through the heat of the atmosphere and EXPLODES onto the surface... Like Savior has... like all who have come before him have. Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov,.... Savior Vertical Horizon, we are on the same page. Check out the questions I submitted: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=9&topic_id=50297 | ||
araav
Armenia1590 Posts
On February 26 2007 15:58 VerticalHorizon wrote: Hmm... I have a lot of words to say on the subject... I'll try to organize them as best as I can. I've been a fan of Savior for a looooong time now... ever since I saw a realllly old game of him as IPXZerg vs. a relatively famous terran on LT, and he went 3 hatch straight defiler and won on pure defiler usage alone... I thought it showed tremendous skill and balls for a Zerg to pull that kind of play. So here are my thoughts... + Show Spoiler + On Dominance It's funny when I see a lot of people hating Savior for reasons like "he is so dominating" or "he takes the competitive fun out of BW" or "he wins TOO much... he is like a robot" - it's amusing because these are the EXACT same things people said when Boxer began to dominate. Do any of you guys remember that far back? Those years... late 2000, 2001, 2002.... when Boxer began his meteoric rise to legendary status... there was SO much controversy back then, too. People were crying about how lame Boxer was compared to Grrr..., how he was simply a soulless machine who just practice 10 hrs a day, how he wasn't a true people's champion like Grrr..., how he wasn't FUN or COOL like Grrr.... Almost every hardcore Grrr fan HATED Boxer for taking his rightful throne... Now he is the Emperor. He needs no introduction. 99% of BW fans smile when they see him and they carry him in their hearts whenever and wherever he is, whether he is in the army or entering the stage for an official match. It's funny because when a young teen burst into the scene, powered through a series of MSL victories, and destroyed his opponents to challenge Boxer for the next title of Terran God... flaunting the title NaDa (which in Korean translates loosely to "IT IS I" or "Here I am")... there was controversy then too. People argued, saying "he is simply machine" "he is just produce, macro, attack" "he does not have the heart of a true emperor." It's funny because when a young man, handpicked by the Emperor himself to succeed him, to be his heir, to rule the kingdom of BW... when such a man rose to his rightful station, destroying all his opponents (whether they were Protoss, Terran, or Zerg), fucking humiliating NaDa, and taking his place by ripping the crown from the hands of his own mentor Boxer.... the Terran war-machine iloveoov, he too was hated and hot debate raged over him. People made SCATHING remarks, made horrible fun of his ugly looks, of his brutish appearance. Haters said "this one is even more robotic and machine-like than NaDa" "he has no brilliance" "he is just epitome of macro, he takes the FUN out of SC." There is no doubt that Savior is THE premier dominant player in the BW scene today. And as I read the remarks that all these anti-Savior fans make, I can't help but think how similar this young man is, to the great gods of BW who came before him. He is like the great new storm that approaches, and controversy and argument, hate and love, passion and conflict rage about him as he ASCENDS to his throne. Before you compare him so quickly to the great ones before him, saying that he is not at all like Boxer, or NaDa, or iloveoov, you guys should take a moment to remember how much of a stir those three caused when they made their entrances onto the pro scene. On Style Savior is the closest thing to the perfect Zerg you will ever see. Those who say that he is not as "cool" as other Zergs (such as July or Gorush or Yellow) because he has no "style" are not fully understanding what is going on. July is God of War because that is how he MUST be. He cannot make the switch to perfect macro/reactionary play at such a high level, so instead he plays toward the strengths he has -> taking the initiative, forcing fights, battling in micro and tactics. Yellow is Storm Zerg because he MUST be. He does not have the lategame control or multi-tasking skill to play a mass-expo game, so he powers to hive tech and wins on small-numbers control and micro tricks. Savior is limitless. If July is God of War and Gorush is Wizard of Management and Yellow is the Storm Zerg, then Savior is simply God of Zerg. Why? Because he has shown, without a doubt, the ability to play any and every style of Zerg ever conceived. You think July is superior to Savior because you see Savior taking 3-4 gas every game? If Savior desires, he can play the small unit control game. Don't be so naive... Savior has demonstrated time and again that he has the unit control, the micro, and the timing to play an aggressive game like July. He is the ESSENCE of Zerg, he adapts to each map, and he exploits his race's strength on every map according to the necessities of the situation. His style is the style of a true champion. He is not limited to one "brand" of strategy... he does what is necessary to win, and he does it as close to perfectly as we have yet seen. His style reminds me of only two people... Boxer and NaDa You know why? Because these two are also the only two great ones in the history of BW to show the adaptive skill and possess the fluid potential to play any and every style. You guys are ignorant if you think Boxer and NaDa also stuck ONLY to one style. Boxer realized that his micro-oriented style of play was WEAK against modern Protoss, and one year later, we see him forcing macro games and playing the fast expo openings. Yes, he uses micro builds too... but THAT is not a reflection of his "one style." It is just a REMINDER to us, that he can use both micro AND macro builds... that he can win on R-Point with timed macro pushes and he can win on Requiem with 8rax. And NaDa... haha... when I saw him dominate IOPS, I thought "this is a Terran who is like water." Because NaDa is like Savior... he has no style. He simply has the unlimited skill and potential to play any style he chooses and deems necessary. We have seen cheese builds, we have seen macrofests... he plays as is necessary. Just like Savior. 9pool, 3 hatch, muta harass, lurkling, hydralurk, defiler... low-eco, high-eco... mass expo, cautious expo... fast tech... Savior's style can't be defined and I think that's part of what pisses people off. Because when you can DEFINE something, it means you can UNDERSTAND it, like how people can understand July's style. But you can't completely 100% understand Savior, because he is fluid. He is water. He is the liquid Zerg who can boil, steam, crush, or wear down any opponent and fit through any crack. On His Victory over NaDa I think people forget just how hard Savior's Royal Road has been. He BLED against Midas. Iris PIERCED him cruelly in the semis. Savior's has had a hard road indeed. Yet against NaDa, he pretty much dominated. Now, people might argue, say that NaDa had a bad day, NaDa could take Savior any other day, blah blah blah. People get angry when they think about NaDa losing to Savior. But I don't know why you should. Because it seemed inevitable to me... When I watched the introduction to Savior vs. NaDa, I was uncertain. Then I saw Game 1 and in the course of it, I was even more confused. I saw two amazing SPIRITS battling each other. Previously, when I mentioned water, I should have said that water dominates anything and everything. It will drown, crush, grind, slip, and wear down anything. But what happens when water terran fights water zerg? What happens when two masters of their craft battle? It comes down to will and it comes down to sheer FORCE. It comes down to what Um Jae-Kyung (fat commentator on the right, the "Overlord") calls "ki" (an ancient Asian term). It is what is called "spirit energy" or "life force." Game 1 of the OSL Shinhan 3 Finals was a battle of ki. It was a war between the two players' FORCES. And I saw that Savior's ki was unflinching, it had pure confidence, it did not bow down before NaDa. But when I saw NaDa, I saw, at first, arrogant strength... then doubt... then the Terran master's ki was scattered. Watch Game 1. You see NaDa's force. It is so obvious and rampant on the field. If I was a SC unit on that battlefield, I would crawl in a hole to hide from the Terran commander's strength of WILL. But Savior was like true water... when NaDa's force was too strong, he flowed past it. When NaDa was weak, he pounded at him like waves. NaDa's FORCE began to falter. And Savior won. That's when I knew Savior would win the series. Never mind the result of Game 2. The Bo5 match ended at Game 1. Because NaDa's force was broken in Game 1. And that's when people should have seen that you cannot get angry at Savior. Because his time had come. Don't get angry about Shinhan 3. It was simply... Savior's coronation. Do you cry and wail and curse when the young prince takes the king's crown? No. Because that's the natural order of things. NaDa was and still is a great king. He is one of those timeless kings, like Boxer, who always has the heart of the people, who can take his crown back at any time. But not that day. And I don't think, not for a while yet. Because it is, as I have said, Savior's time. When a meteor crashes onto the Earth, it is not welcomed with open arms. It burns through the heat of the atmosphere and EXPLODES onto the surface... Like Savior has... like all who have come before him have. Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov,.... Savior This is one huge and good post! I was thinking the same about it, when I saw how ppl hate oov - the greatest player of all the time. Too bad he lost his motivation ![]() | ||
KovacsFlorian
204 Posts
On February 27 2007 03:58 araav wrote: This is one huge and good post! I was thinking the same about it, when I saw how ppl hate oov - the greatest player of all the time. Too bad he lost his motivation ![]() Nah. Savior vs Midas would be fun. I wanna see Midas choke and then cry. LOL Savior is da man. And Midas the girl. | ||
tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On February 26 2007 15:58 VerticalHorizon wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hmm... I have a lot of words to say on the subject... I'll try to organize them as best as I can. I've been a fan of Savior for a looooong time now... ever since I saw a realllly old game of him as IPXZerg vs. a relatively famous terran on LT, and he went 3 hatch straight defiler and won on pure defiler usage alone... I thought it showed tremendous skill and balls for a Zerg to pull that kind of play. So here are my thoughts... On Dominance It's funny when I see a lot of people hating Savior for reasons like "he is so dominating" or "he takes the competitive fun out of BW" or "he wins TOO much... he is like a robot" - it's amusing because these are the EXACT same things people said when Boxer began to dominate. Do any of you guys remember that far back? Those years... late 2000, 2001, 2002.... when Boxer began his meteoric rise to legendary status... there was SO much controversy back then, too. People were crying about how lame Boxer was compared to Grrr..., how he was simply a soulless machine who just practice 10 hrs a day, how he wasn't a true people's champion like Grrr..., how he wasn't FUN or COOL like Grrr.... Almost every hardcore Grrr fan HATED Boxer for taking his rightful throne... Now he is the Emperor. He needs no introduction. 99% of BW fans smile when they see him and they carry him in their hearts whenever and wherever he is, whether he is in the army or entering the stage for an official match. It's funny because when a young teen burst into the scene, powered through a series of MSL victories, and destroyed his opponents to challenge Boxer for the next title of Terran God... flaunting the title NaDa (which in Korean translates loosely to "IT IS I" or "Here I am")... there was controversy then too. People argued, saying "he is simply machine" "he is just produce, macro, attack" "he does not have the heart of a true emperor." It's funny because when a young man, handpicked by the Emperor himself to succeed him, to be his heir, to rule the kingdom of BW... when such a man rose to his rightful station, destroying all his opponents (whether they were Protoss, Terran, or Zerg), fucking humiliating NaDa, and taking his place by ripping the crown from the hands of his own mentor Boxer.... the Terran war-machine iloveoov, he too was hated and hot debate raged over him. People made SCATHING remarks, made horrible fun of his ugly looks, of his brutish appearance. Haters said "this one is even more robotic and machine-like than NaDa" "he has no brilliance" "he is just epitome of macro, he takes the FUN out of SC." There is no doubt that Savior is THE premier dominant player in the BW scene today. And as I read the remarks that all these anti-Savior fans make, I can't help but think how similar this young man is, to the great gods of BW who came before him. He is like the great new storm that approaches, and controversy and argument, hate and love, passion and conflict rage about him as he ASCENDS to his throne. Before you compare him so quickly to the great ones before him, saying that he is not at all like Boxer, or NaDa, or iloveoov, you guys should take a moment to remember how much of a stir those three caused when they made their entrances onto the pro scene. On Style Savior is the closest thing to the perfect Zerg you will ever see. Those who say that he is not as "cool" as other Zergs (such as July or Gorush or Yellow) because he has no "style" are not fully understanding what is going on. July is God of War because that is how he MUST be. He cannot make the switch to perfect macro/reactionary play at such a high level, so instead he plays toward the strengths he has -> taking the initiative, forcing fights, battling in micro and tactics. Yellow is Storm Zerg because he MUST be. He does not have the lategame control or multi-tasking skill to play a mass-expo game, so he powers to hive tech and wins on small-numbers control and micro tricks. Savior is limitless. If July is God of War and Gorush is Wizard of Management and Yellow is the Storm Zerg, then Savior is simply God of Zerg. Why? Because he has shown, without a doubt, the ability to play any and every style of Zerg ever conceived. You think July is superior to Savior because you see Savior taking 3-4 gas every game? If Savior desires, he can play the small unit control game. Don't be so naive... Savior has demonstrated time and again that he has the unit control, the micro, and the timing to play an aggressive game like July. He is the ESSENCE of Zerg, he adapts to each map, and he exploits his race's strength on every map according to the necessities of the situation. His style is the style of a true champion. He is not limited to one "brand" of strategy... he does what is necessary to win, and he does it as close to perfectly as we have yet seen. His style reminds me of only two people... Boxer and NaDa You know why? Because these two are also the only two great ones in the history of BW to show the adaptive skill and possess the fluid potential to play any and every style. You guys are ignorant if you think Boxer and NaDa also stuck ONLY to one style. Boxer realized that his micro-oriented style of play was WEAK against modern Protoss, and one year later, we see him forcing macro games and playing the fast expo openings. Yes, he uses micro builds too... but THAT is not a reflection of his "one style." It is just a REMINDER to us, that he can use both micro AND macro builds... that he can win on R-Point with timed macro pushes and he can win on Requiem with 8rax. And NaDa... haha... when I saw him dominate IOPS, I thought "this is a Terran who is like water." Because NaDa is like Savior... he has no style. He simply has the unlimited skill and potential to play any style he chooses and deems necessary. We have seen cheese builds, we have seen macrofests... he plays as is necessary. Just like Savior. 9pool, 3 hatch, muta harass, lurkling, hydralurk, defiler... low-eco, high-eco... mass expo, cautious expo... fast tech... Savior's style can't be defined and I think that's part of what pisses people off. Because when you can DEFINE something, it means you can UNDERSTAND it, like how people can understand July's style. But you can't completely 100% understand Savior, because he is fluid. He is water. He is the liquid Zerg who can boil, steam, crush, or wear down any opponent and fit through any crack. On His Victory over NaDa I think people forget just how hard Savior's Royal Road has been. He BLED against Midas. Iris PIERCED him cruelly in the semis. Savior's has had a hard road indeed. Yet against NaDa, he pretty much dominated. Now, people might argue, say that NaDa had a bad day, NaDa could take Savior any other day, blah blah blah. People get angry when they think about NaDa losing to Savior. But I don't know why you should. Because it seemed inevitable to me... When I watched the introduction to Savior vs. NaDa, I was uncertain. Then I saw Game 1 and in the course of it, I was even more confused. I saw two amazing SPIRITS battling each other. Previously, when I mentioned water, I should have said that water dominates anything and everything. It will drown, crush, grind, slip, and wear down anything. But what happens when water terran fights water zerg? What happens when two masters of their craft battle? It comes down to will and it comes down to sheer FORCE. It comes down to what Um Jae-Kyung (fat commentator on the right, the "Overlord") calls "ki" (an ancient Asian term). It is what is called "spirit energy" or "life force." Game 1 of the OSL Shinhan 3 Finals was a battle of ki. It was a war between the two players' FORCES. And I saw that Savior's ki was unflinching, it had pure confidence, it did not bow down before NaDa. But when I saw NaDa, I saw, at first, arrogant strength... then doubt... then the Terran master's ki was scattered. Watch Game 1. You see NaDa's force. It is so obvious and rampant on the field. If I was a SC unit on that battlefield, I would crawl in a hole to hide from the Terran commander's strength of WILL. But Savior was like true water... when NaDa's force was too strong, he flowed past it. When NaDa was weak, he pounded at him like waves. NaDa's FORCE began to falter. And Savior won. That's when I knew Savior would win the series. Never mind the result of Game 2. The Bo5 match ended at Game 1. Because NaDa's force was broken in Game 1. And that's when people should have seen that you cannot get angry at Savior. Because his time had come. Don't get angry about Shinhan 3. It was simply... Savior's coronation. Do you cry and wail and curse when the young prince takes the king's crown? No. Because that's the natural order of things. NaDa was and still is a great king. He is one of those timeless kings, like Boxer, who always has the heart of the people, who can take his crown back at any time. But not that day. And I don't think, not for a while yet. Because it is, as I have said, Savior's time. When a meteor crashes onto the Earth, it is not welcomed with open arms. It burns through the heat of the atmosphere and EXPLODES onto the surface... Like Savior has... like all who have come before him have. Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov,.... Savior great post | ||
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