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What rises must also fall. One day Savior\'s dominance will end and I\'m not so sure if it\'ll be a zerg player that replaces him. I get the nagging feeling that it\'ll be a terran player that brings him down from his throne.
Generally speaking, people like terran players winning. I don\'t know why exactly, but I guess it\'s a combination of there being more terran players, the terran race being the \'human\' race and the fact that the terran race is more capable of turning the tides than any other race. Terrans can be on the brink of losing but slowly build themselves back into the game; and the efficiency of their units means that winning battles is much more essential, which makes each of their battles more interesting.
Remember zerg fans, it was only two years ago when there were just one or two major trophies won by the zerg. Even when GoRush beat Nada in the MSL finals, or when July beat Goodfriend in the OSL finals, I got the feeling that this was a one off, that zerg players were MEANT to lose in the finals against terran. The epitomy of terran arrogance against zerg were shown by players like Midas who said \"People say I have the easiest time against protoss, but it\'s not true. Playing the zerg is the easiest. You just bunker rush them if they\'re close, or expand early if you\'re far away.\" and Oov who said \"People say July is my rival. A zerg cannot be my rival. Only great terran players can consider themselves rivals to me.\"
Savior made it seem natural that a zerg player beats a terram player. People never cried (terran players that is) imbalance with July\'s mutalisks, despite his awesome never seen before skills with them. I don\'t think what Savior achieved with zerg will happen again anytime soon. People are so easy to point out the imbalance in PvZ, but take it for granted when zergs loses against terran. Enjoy Savior\'s domination while you can, because stylish or not, you probably won\'t see a non-terran player dominating like this unless some major balance patch is made. As for the terran fans whinning about Nada\'s cute mnm micro not being enough to slaughter everything Savior throws at him - you had your time, time to taste a dose of your medicine 
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On February 25 2007 01:05 DeadVessel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2007 22:00 XCetron wrote:
The only match of sAviOr that is not worth watching is the 5th game of sAviOr vs NaDa OSL final last night. umm... it didn't go to 5 games...
That's the point. If you want a refrasing, the only savior's game that's not worth watching is the one he never played.
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On February 24 2007 21:25 Cambium wrote:
It's obviously good for progaming, it forces other players to try harder in order to upset Savior's dominance.
What I really don't understand is that, when Nada dominates the progaming scene - shown through his consecutive MSL wins (like Savior) and the inaugural golden mouse achievement in OSL (which is more than what Savior achieved so far) - people still cheered him on. However, when Savior dominates, people hate him.
Am I missing something?
So true. When a terran dominates they're called great and are worshipped (boxer, oov, Nada). When a zerg dominates however they're dubbed evil and their dominance is resented. Do people really only want to see terrans win? What makes BW a great game is the 3 race system and if only terrans dominated it would get boring. I can understand protoss fan's pain but really its not Savior's fault about Z>P imbalance, he's only exploiting what's there. Blame Blizzard or the mapmakers if anyone. What's he supposed to do? Throw games against protoss?
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I think it's a really good thing that Savior is dominating. Fans want heros who wins when they want them to win. Even though I'm a zerg user, I rather see a toss or terran user dominating this long =/.
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United States5262 Posts
sAviOr plays StarCraft so perfectly. That is why I don't like him being on the top.
WHAT??????
sAviOr plays Zerg so perfectly. I can't see how anybody could take more than 30% of games from him. He's just too good. He plays StarCraft so perfect hat it's BORING. Even the aggressive 9 pool build sAviOr manages to build a huge economy Zerg.
Zerg used to be about low eco high micro attacks. sAviOr with his perfect play has turned Zerg into a heavy macro race just like Terran and Protoss. sAviOr executes his micro perfectly just like all the other pros. His macro is the best of all the Zerg by far.
So why does he continue to bore me game after game? It's because he plays so safely. BoxeR excited the world with his amazing micro. He played such a flawful game and still won. He microed when the match was on the line. If he didn't dodge that lurker spine he could potentially lose the game. Having that on the line is what made his games so exciting. He played such a dangerous game of StarCraft and won. sAviOr plays such a safe way of StarCraft and wins. Goodness gracious how boring.
I think sAviOr is an amazing player. This doesn't mean I like to watch him. I think watching sAviOr is just boring. Cool, he has art defiler usage. Cool, his muta micro is like Shark/July. Cool, his scourge usage is crazy. Cool, he plays with an enormous economy.
sAviOr is amazing. Amazingly BORING. Having boring players own the crown is like having Italy as the World Cup champions again. (Italy plays some pretty boring football in my opinion. Oh and I'm not associating sAviOr as a defensive player because Italy plays boring defensive football. I'm just comparing them to him because they both bore me.)
I honestly think it's not good that he's number 1.
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On February 24 2007 21:25 DeadVessel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2007 21:14 Locke. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
HOW THE FUCK DID HE WIN 5TH GAME VS IRIS????
that's my thoughts about him I remember seeing a replay of him on LT a long time ago.. Every little thing he did had meaning and was meant to confuse and demoralize his opponent. It was just beautiful. I prefer his intelligent style much more than nadas spam and attack style even though I usually side with the terrans being one myself.I think he is great for SC cause he really makes you see the psychology in sc instead of just the plain 13 hours perfect macro micro which to me can be really boring to watch.. I hope he apologise for the Heil-Hitler poses in his next interviews. Being all his life infront of PC playing SC I guess he doesn't fully understand how offensive and out of place that is especially when he is a teenager's idol and every little thing he does has huge impact on the crowd.. By the way Locke. this comment right here makes you look very stupid. NaDa is art player and while being very fast doesn't spam. Almost every action he does is checking on something or macroing or microing. NaDa isn't like the noobies that get 300 apm just to get it. It has a purpose which you evidently don't realize.
Actually... most of Nada's actions are hotkey presses heh. Like 50-60% of his actions.
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hmm
i honestly do not find his style boring at all
his zerg is such pure fucking art i don't know how that can bore anyone :[
he takes the ballsy builds early game, imagine facing fucking boxer's or nada's insane m+m micro and still drone whoring
did you find oov's style boring jkillashark?
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On February 24 2007 21:40 EAGER-beaver wrote:
Why do people say savior is boring?!?! I can't wait to see his games because of the insane strategies that he seems to pull off FLAWLESSLY. Game 3 and 4 of the osl finals nearly brought tears to my eyes with the pure art gosuness of his plays. When was the last time we've seen a zerg user use queens, or defilers like savior? Never!
god of queens - tsunami
god of defilers - ameba
as for the posts about apm- only boxer had apm 250+ with vapm 200+, i didn't see a single replay of nada with such high percentage. thing i like bout savior is that he has apm 235 or so which means he really uses every click to the maximum-while nada may check things around that doesn't negate the fact that he is a spam machine like 99.999% terrans out there.
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I think Savior dominating as he has is a great thing for Starcraft. It has invigorated both players and fans, and will, in my opinion, eventually take Starcraft to a whole new level. Its also great to see a Zerg player accomplish what in the past only terrans have.
Starcraft has seen a dominating player during most of its time in the form of Boxer, nada, oov, and now Savior. I dont expect Savior to dominate like this forever though. Sooner or later, I suspect his gameplay will be deconstructed and other pros will improve and figure out how to play against him. Much like the other greats, Savior himself will be forced to adapt and to alter himself somewhat to remain a force to be reckoned with. And I am positive he will be able to do so. He might be dethroned from the number 1 position at some point in the future, but I think he will remain a top player for as long as he plays.
There is no doubt in my mind that Savior is playing better than any other pro right now, but I wouldnt go as far as to say he is perfect. He hasnt been 3-0ing and 2-0ing other players left and right, so he has lost here and there. I cannot believe that Savior has reached a skill level that is consummate and can never be transcended.
That isn't to take away from the mind blowing level of skill he has ahieved or how he is now dominating the pro scene like only a handful of players have in the past. Whats more, he has done so with a race that we though would never be able to do so.
I think there are pros currently playing who have the potential to improve and start deeply troubling Savior. (I wish Boxer hadnt retired, I strongly suspect he would have reached even footing with Savior after some initial losses). There is also the possibility that Starcraft will find a new player who manages to accomplish this. I cant say when this will start happening though, but I think it will, because it has happened with every other top player in history. I find it hard to accept that Savior will stay numero uno until Starcraft dies. Whats great about this prospect is that hopefully it wont be Savior who starts slumping, but it will be other players who raise their game and start competing with Savior. That means Savior will accomplish what Boxer, nada and oov have - raising the bar of skill, not just for themselves, but of the entire generation of pros. And thats just a salivating idea.
So, go Savior! In the end, much like Boxer, his greatest contribution to the game will not be his impressive list of achievements, but influencing an entire generation of professionals and fans in many ways.
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On February 25 2007 01:58 jkillashark wrote:
sAviOr plays StarCraft so perfectly. That is why I don't like him being on the top.
WHAT??????
sAviOr plays Zerg so perfectly. I can't see how anybody could take more than 30% of games from him. He's just too good. He plays StarCraft so perfect hat it's BORING. Even the aggressive 9 pool build sAviOr manages to build a huge economy Zerg.
Zerg used to be about low eco high micro attacks. sAviOr with his perfect play has turned Zerg into a heavy macro race just like Terran and Protoss. sAviOr executes his micro perfectly just like all the other pros. His macro is the best of all the Zerg by far.
So why does he continue to bore me game after game? It's because he plays so safely. BoxeR excited the world with his amazing micro. He played such a flawful game and still won. He microed when the match was on the line. If he didn't dodge that lurker spine he could potentially lose the game. Having that on the line is what made his games so exciting. He played such a dangerous game of StarCraft and won. sAviOr plays such a safe way of StarCraft and wins. Goodness gracious how boring.
I think sAviOr is an amazing player. This doesn't mean I like to watch him. I think watching sAviOr is just boring. Cool, he has art defiler usage. Cool, his muta micro is like Shark/July. Cool, his scourge usage is crazy. Cool, he plays with an enormous economy.
sAviOr is amazing. Amazingly BORING. Having boring players own the crown is like having Italy as the World Cup champions again. (Italy plays some pretty boring football in my opinion. Oh and I'm not associating sAviOr as a defensive player because Italy plays boring defensive football. I'm just comparing them to him because they both bore me.)
I honestly think it's not good that he's number 1.
And Oov isn't boring??
You can blame terran for his style. Every terran always fast expands, what can he do?
Terran dictates plays, if they fast expand then savior has to out macro them. Terran will just get tanks and bunkers at nat, so zerg can't attack until terran moves out or defilers are ready.
So blame the terrans for his defensive style.
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you guys are all being so fucking unfair to savior... he isn't made out of machine... he is a normal breathing organic being like everyone else, but he's able to get to the top through hard work... and you think his style is boring? he uses every single unit in the game, and varies his style from rushes to long game planning (he pulls off strats from 4 pool to guardian rushes to dark swarm quick-tech).
I want to ask you all, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? I admire him for his dominance, not hate him for it...
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I for one find his style very interesting and fun. He is like a peace keeper in first the 10 miniuts of the game, never really attack the other guy unless was attacked. Then a few miniuts after hive, he become a laughter house. An absolut killing machining with his swarm, plage, ultra, gurds combo. It's art.
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On February 25 2007 01:58 cravy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2007 21:25 DeadVessel wrote:On February 24 2007 21:14 Locke. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
HOW THE FUCK DID HE WIN 5TH GAME VS IRIS????
that's my thoughts about him I remember seeing a replay of him on LT a long time ago.. Every little thing he did had meaning and was meant to confuse and demoralize his opponent. It was just beautiful. I prefer his intelligent style much more than nadas spam and attack style even though I usually side with the terrans being one myself.I think he is great for SC cause he really makes you see the psychology in sc instead of just the plain 13 hours perfect macro micro which to me can be really boring to watch.. I hope he apologise for the Heil-Hitler poses in his next interviews. Being all his life infront of PC playing SC I guess he doesn't fully understand how offensive and out of place that is especially when he is a teenager's idol and every little thing he does has huge impact on the crowd.. By the way Locke. this comment right here makes you look very stupid. NaDa is art player and while being very fast doesn't spam. Almost every action he does is checking on something or macroing or microing. NaDa isn't like the noobies that get 300 apm just to get it. It has a purpose which you evidently don't realize. Actually... most of Nada's actions are hotkey presses heh. Like 50-60% of his actions.
have you ever heard of double tap to jump around? maybe that explains it !?!
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I think it's a good thing. Only terran have had the "unbeatable players" before. Boxer, Nada and perhaps also oov can be counted among them.
While Savior has a certain style, he has also been able to remain so good because of forsight and adaptability, always seeming to know what to do next. Even so he won't win forever, but he'll force the others to come up with something new in turn to bring the game forward.
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Talking about boring... Terran's the most boring race in SC. TvZ you basically do the same thing every single game. Get mnm, tanks, vessels, attack, dropship kill expansions. At least zerg mixes it up with lurkers, muta lings, guardians and defilers.
And Terran risking the game with every attack? Terrans have awesome defense and are rarely at risk when attacking and the other two races have to adapt to their timing. Hwasin freely leaves his base to attack and forsakes his base to be defended/rescued by reinforcements and scvs. Whereas zerg, if your flank doesn't work out or you lose mutas, you're doomed. Nobody has it easier in SC than terrans, and that's why they've been so successful.
If anything, watching Savior is entertaining because he rapes the other guy so badly sometimes it makes them look like noobs, not Starleaguers. Watching Nada doing the same thing that every Terran does, and failing, is boring. Watching Savior infesting Nada's CC and taking him to school is great.
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Savior's dominance is good because it helps prove that strategy/decision making is more important in Starcraft than having perfect APM/multitask/micro. When it comes to the latter things Savior is merely average to above average by pro standards (in fact I think people are sometimes blind to the amount of small micro mistakes he makes sometimes), it's the rest that pushes him to the top.
edit: also it's nice to have a non-Terran dominate, even if it means Protoss is more screwed against Z than ever :p.
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It\'s a good thing. Simple. Really, what would you want instead? Im a deadass Boxer & Nada fan but when it comes to a question like this i can\'t deny. I for myself am glad that savior entered the osl cause it\'s just a farce seeing other players win while a really strong part of the scene is not playing in the league. That would just feel wrong.
Trust me i literaly pull out my hair every time when i see saviors defilers. I dont think his style is boring, it\'s fearsome. When i see a terran fight against him im allways nervous, even when it looks good for the terran. Cause i know one single failure and the monster will push himself away from the wall. There are rare moments savior does not handle the situation right. Everything seems like a ton harder against him. When i saw his lurker placement on longinus i was like \"wtf you bloody brilliant bastard\". It payned me to death to see it but it was just the right time at the right place.
I think it\'s fucking cool. Really, his presence is awesome for the scene. And over the last few weeks i really started to like him as a person.
All he does fellaws is play like a zerg player is supose to play nowadays. This will not only affect terrans maybe it will affect the goddamn lazy protoss players to finaly DO something. If you have to bring up as much stamina as nal_ra had to in his first game against savior, well then the fuck that\'s the way it is.
Savior wins cause he is strong. He does not win cause all the others played week. And here comes the beauty of starcraft. All the others have to push themself forward, to work harder, find new ways, improve themself over and over again. It will motivate young and old to one day fight the best player and beat him. Savior is the mount everest of the scene right now. He\'s the gas that makes the motivation motor run in all these players.
Imagine how strong the next player will be. It\'s unbelievable that even after so many years there is still so much room for improvement.
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Braavos36401 Posts
On February 25 2007 03:59 gravity wrote:
Savior's dominance is good because it helps prove that strategy/decision making is more important in Starcraft than having perfect APM/multitask/micro. When it comes to the latter things Savior is merely average to above average by pro standards (in fact I think people are sometimes blind to the amount of small micro mistakes he makes sometimes), it's the rest that pushes him to the top.
edit: also it's nice to have a non-Terran dominate, even if it means Protoss is more screwed against Z than ever :p.
are you joking? savior has the best multitask of any zerg EVER and better micro than anyone but july
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
On February 25 2007 03:02 vnlegend wrote:
Talking about boring... Terran's the most boring race in SC. TvZ you basically do the same thing every single game. Get mnm, tanks, vessels, attack, dropship kill expansions. At least zerg mixes it up with lurkers, muta lings, guardians and defilers.
And Terran risking the game with every attack? Terrans have awesome defense and are rarely at risk when attacking and the other two races have to adapt to their timing. Hwasin freely leaves his base to attack and forsakes his base to be defended/rescued by reinforcements and scvs. Whereas zerg, if your flank doesn't work out or you lose mutas, you're doomed. Nobody has it easier in SC than terrans, and that's why they've been so successful.
If anything, watching Savior is entertaining because he rapes the other guy so badly sometimes it makes them look like noobs, not Starleaguers. Watching Nada doing the same thing that every Terran does, and failing, is boring. Watching Savior infesting Nada's CC and taking him to school is great.
k stupid lol
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EPT
