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On July 16 2017 05:08 Rolltide wrote:
You call him trash and you are not a fan. .
I did not generalize it by saying speaking bad of him makes you not a fan or that saying he is not playing well makes you not a fan. . I never said that voting for some other Protoss automatically means you are not a fan.
Using words like trash means you are no fan of Zest.
That makes no sense. Trash is simply a description of his current gameplay level/success. He is below 50% winrate. That's really, really bad.
Nobody in here is happy that that's the case but it's still reality. We all hope that it gets better again, the ladder ranking looked promising, etc. But then he failed to qualify for GSL 
This all got started because of the decision of blizzard that fans should vote for their favorite players. I think that's unreasonable for that event and thus i vote for players who are actually good right now. I think that's more fair.
If it would be a fan voting for HSC that would be a different topic entirely.
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Lol I'll always be a fan of Zest, doesn't mean I can't call him trash. He is.
Being a fan means you cheer for a player and want them to succeed, not lie about how good they are
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On July 16 2017 05:08 Rolltide wrote:
You call him trash and you are not a fan. .
I did not generalize it by saying speaking bad of him makes you not a fan or that saying he is not playing well makes you not a fan. . I never said that voting for some other Protoss automatically means you are not a fan.
Using words like trash means you are no fan of Zest.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
Different fans express their support in different ways. Brutal honesty is one of them.
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This RavenZ cup that starts in 9 hours(6 AM CST) looks interesting. Zest was able to get in through the qualifiers and has a chance to make it through a couple of rounds. He plays Keen who we know he can beat and then he would face the winner of Leenock vs Hush.
If he makes it that far he is probably done since the players in the next 2 matches are TY vs Gumiho and Innovation vs Vanya. That's like a Terran wall whomever will still be standing.
It's a small tournament money wise but many of the top players in Korea are involved. Yet another gauge of where his game is at lately.
When I saw him streaming Thursday he was ranked 38th on ladder so not tearing it up but perhaps he got some nice practice in. He streamed for a long time and a lot of games
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Australia18228 Posts
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Yep, that was really disappointing. Crap.
Astonishing the number of 0-2 matches he has and not against people like Soo or Innovation. He loses like that to ordinary players.
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I do this with boxers some in evaluating how good a guy is. It's not just who beat you but who beat the guy who beat you.
Zest gets beat by Keen 2-0, Leenock beat Keen 2-0. Now Leenock is going to play Gumiho and will most likely lose.
So Zest can't say he unluckily ran into a red hot player or got a bad draw. If Keen is not good enough to take a map off of Leenock what does that say for Zest who could not take a map off of him?
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I'm not sure this is the best metric since match ups are important in sc2
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Protoss is heavy underpowered at the moment, every toss sucks not just Zest dont look into it too hard, Zest doesnt suck, you suck for thinking he does
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On July 16 2017 20:58 Inflicted wrote:
And he got 2-0d by KeeN
yeah this is getting sad
I hope he doesn't give up and can come back at some point
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On July 17 2017 03:15 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote:
Protoss is heavy underpowered at the moment, every toss sucks not just Zest dont look into it too hard, Zest doesnt suck, you suck for thinking he does
Yeah classic, herO and dear are totally mediocre atm 
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To be honest protoss is definitely weak atm
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On July 17 2017 03:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2017 03:15 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote:
Protoss is heavy underpowered at the moment, every toss sucks not just Zest dont look into it too hard, Zest doesnt suck, you suck for thinking he does Yeah classic, herO and dear are totally mediocre atm
in last 30 days Classic is 24–33 (42.11%) in games and 9–14 (39.13%) in matches.
herO also got smacked by leenock 2-0 is hero terrible?????????
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You have a point with classic, his stats aren't incredible though it's a lot of online losses. (offline he won the important matches though in SSL)
herO's stats in general aren't that bad.
You didn't even respond to dear because his stats are great
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To be fair online tournaments are never the priority for players anyway. Not the best indicator of skill. There are players that never show good perfamances online but can win offline events
also, I don't think Zest will retire. He's made about $21K so far this year from tournaments, plus whatever he gets from streaming. Even if he keeps at this level he should still accumilate decent earnings by the end of the year. Obviously it's not $310K like TY has, but it's enough to live off
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On July 17 2017 05:02 Fango wrote:
To be fair online tournaments are never the priority for players anyway. Not the best indicator of skill. There are players that never show good perfamances online but can win offline events
also, I don't think Zest will retire. He's made about $21K so far this year from tournaments, plus whatever he gets from streaming. Even if he keeps at this level he should still accumilate decent earnings by the end of the year. Obviously it's not $310K like TY has, but it's enough to live off
hopefully. Thing is I really think he still has it but he needs to overcome some kind of mental block, and you never know how and why this is going to happen.
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I don't buy that this is just a Protoss UP thing. The top player in WCS points by far, by far is Stats. Neeb by far in the circuit. Neeb has won 2 Dreamhacks.
Those 2 guys are either god like to over come an unfair balance or there is no unfair balance.
Let's remember that a decade ago Brood war players were retiring at age 21 and 22. SC2 is less demanding mechanically so players can hang around longer but many of these guys are up there age wise for this sport.
Zest is now 25 and Classic 25 1/2. Perhaps age is catching up. Either one is as good as they were 2 years ago that's for sure.
I agree with Fango that Zest will probably be back for one more year. At least give it one more big try.
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Terrans foreigners have always been weak.
Look at Korea 5 major tournaments : 1 for protoss 4 for Terrans... 0 for zerg.
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Zest just beat Neeb 2-0. Wasn't even close.
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Yes his PvP is still fine unless he plays against Creator :p
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EPT
