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Looks like Avilo got a perma ban on this site.
Reason: I think it is time for us to part ways at this point. You are never going to stop balance whining anyway.
Love or hate Avilo, this just comes off sounding like some personal power trip. Avilo may be delusional and wrong, and his opinions on balance may be in the minority, but deplatforming him because he thinks swarmhosts and tempests are busted, I am not sure that's a reasonable excuse.
If he broke actual rules, and this was in response to that, then fine... but that's not what this looks like had happened.
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On December 24 2018 01:34 Balosaar wrote:Looks like Avilo got a perma ban on this site.Show nested quote +Reason: I think it is time for us to part ways at this point. You are never going to stop balance whining anyway. Love or hate Avilo, this just comes off sounding like some personal power trip. Avilo may be delusional and wrong, and his opinions on balance may be in the minority, but deplatforming him because he thinks swarmhosts and tempests are busted, I am not sure that's a reasonable excuse. If he broke actual rules, and this was in response to that, then fine... but that's not what this looks like had happened.
The reason given was embarrassing. Pretty childish and IMO definitely a personal power trip.
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Avilo deserves to be unbanned. Banning him for pointing out imbalance is shameful, regardless of how you feel towards him. He has a target on his head for being vocal about imbalance and those who still suckle from the teat of Blizzard refuse to acknowledge it.
Blizzard can't fix the game or remove units because they are sellouts to the microtransaction(skins). Removal of an imbalanced unit creates a new problem with the end user that was foolish enough to make the microtransaction.
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To be honest you are depicting Avilo as a martyr which he clearly is not.
He points out perceived imbalances in a quite arrogant way, addressing those(the majority) who don't agree with him in a disregarding manner.
Thus said, I personally don't think he deserved a permaban for that post.
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starcraft 2 doomed avilo and teamliquid. luckily broodwar came back.
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On December 24 2018 07:49 Xain0n wrote:
To be honest you are depicting Avilo as a martyr which he clearly is not.
He points out perceived imbalances in a quite arrogant way, addressing those(the majority) who don't agree with him in a disregarding manner.
Thus said, I personally don't think he deserved a permaban for that post.
It wasnt his 1st time doing that, or his 50th. He didnt make a single meaningful contribution on the site in ages(maybe ever) TL.net to him was just another platform to preach his skewed view of the game.
I don't see a reason why the permaban wasn't deserved.
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On December 24 2018 16:34 Ej_ wrote:
I don't see a reason why the permaban wasn't deserved.
Because you're in an avilo fanclub thread, that's why there is no reason to ban avilo.
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(Quick post on mobile, apologies for any typos and whatnot.)
There comes a point when you realize some people will never change, no matter much you offer them or how time passes. It seems the TL folks came to that point, which most people here seemed to reach a long time ago.
The few times he didn't act angry, wasn't demeaning to people who didn't see or think the same way as him, wasn't attacking others, wasn't bashing the developers and/or players for one reason (I use the term "reason" loosely as many of his posts were fuled purely by emotion) or another, wasn't trying to push his selfish agenda on everyone around him, and so on, the few times when actually engaged in a real discussion, were entirely buried seven feet deep beneath the rest of his actions.
I reached out to him a few times when I was genuinely worried about him based on his repeated and worsening behavior on the site and on Twitch, and, the couple of times he did respond, he either responded as if I was intending to humiliate him or responded as if I were a piece of garbage stuck to his shoe and was offended that I was making noise. I don't like having toxic people in our community, I don't believe anyone should, and it's a shame that his fans are (apprently) incapable of looking at him and the current situation realistically. He is predominantly angry, selfish, hateful, toxic, on TL and in tournaments and on Twitch, and while he's shown other much more positive sides of himself here and there (I'm thinking specifically of an offline tournament earlier this year but can't recall which one it was), it's a shame he hasn't been able to learn, to change, and at least be better on sites that he (apparently) cares a lot about being able to use and to use them to start more discussions and seriously, positively engage with people.
It might come as a surprise to people, but I care a lot about Avilo. I hate seeing people behave the way he does, but for a long time I strongly felt that he rise far above his own flaws and become a widely respectable member of the community. It's sad that he's shut down that possibility so many times and, this time, it seems, for good here. It's also sad to me because it was entirely expected. Having an outspoken person with a platform and audience who engaged on forums would normally be missed, but it would be insincere to say many people will miss the person in this instance.
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On December 25 2018 02:31 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2018 16:34 Ej_ wrote:
I don't see a reason why the permaban wasn't deserved. Because you're in an avilo fanclub thread, that's why there is no reason to ban avilo.
I don't think everyone who is posting about this issue is an avilo fan; this is just really the only available medium to discuss since other topics mentioning avilo will be closed immediately.
Just because someone may think that the ban is stupid doesn't automatically mean they're an avilo fan. I've called out his BS on a number of occasions, including on Twitch. However, that doesn't mean that I'm going to do ad hominem attacks and not disagree when Avilo gets wronged. One has to try his/her hardest to be impartial and look at the situation as objectively and possible.
Also in regards to the balance whining, this is just laughable. Have you seen any balance discussion topic across Teamliquid, reddit, bnet forums, twitch, etc...? It's full of people disagreeing with each other on whether one race is imbalanced or not, and it's usually done in a highly condescending manner. Also to give credit where credit is due, Avilo did advocate for Terran units being nerfed numerous times in the past (reapers and ravens), which did end up happening. It's not like it's always just whining P and Z.
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TL.net always seemed to be pretty fair to Avilo in the past. I'm not really sure what has changed? Yes he is pretty polarising in his opinions on the game but as a Terran fan who enjoys mech he was someone who I enjoyed to watch. Yes, it was his choice to play off meta for years even when it clearly wasn't the best option. He has moaned and whined about balance for as long as time, but TL.net never seemed to have a problem with it. Was their a flash-point in which he went over the top or something?
Perhaps not all but at least some of the stuff about him calling people out for being hackers seems genuine and that does seem to be more prevalent on this last patch.
I hope both parties can sort this out!
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I would say I'm surprised at many of the emotional responses here, but then again... not really...
For people to think this is one crazy mod banning such an 'influencer' in the scene for no reason other than 'power tripping' must have no idea how structured/ many secret forums TL is/has.
My first instinct was that this was discussed previously, constantly brought up, and slowly moved towards with each infraction Avilo made among a collective number of moderators in private. Eventually they had enough reason to do so, but probably decided not to for the otherwise good benefits Avilo had on the site/scene just #s wise.
However, he probably just ended up being too toxic, and his constant posts that showed no turning point towards actual either meaningful discussion/objective assessment of the game/all the other problems led to this decision.
Well, that's what I thought, so I checked Avilo's stream to check if there was anything else that might have happened and literally in his last stream the first hour is spent about him saying stuff that was sent in PMs... the main points being:
1) this was not a mistake, and it's final.
2) this wasn't one person, it was a group of people who decided, and issued by an individual.
3) that individual has the rights to the unbanning, but as it was done by a collective number of mods, the chance of that changing are, as mentioned in point one, quite low.
So pretty much what I thought from the start. TL isn't the sort of system where people do whatever they want with their mod powers. These are people of the community who have given to the site for a prolonged period of time, or who are actually hired employees. Avilo confirmed as much.
If he wants to be unbanned, I'd imagine he'd need to take steps towards showing he actually cared rather than doubling down. It's not beyond the mods at TL to understand that people change and ought to be hosted with a change of attitude. It's happened numerous times with the sidebar listing.
For the record, saying " don't sink down to the level of this fucking power tripping piece of shit, don't sink down to that level " in reference to KadaverBB is probably not a good start.
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These Red Alert 3 games are a lot more fun than watching Avilo sit in his Terran base macro-ing all day long. That Soviet Navy is too sweet.
for the record.. that is a Terror Drone.. .not a WarBear ... that kills the Ninja.
This is why RTS games are so much damn fun.
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On December 25 2018 11:47 Ve5pa wrote:
TL.net always seemed to be pretty fair to Avilo in the past. I'm not really sure what has changed? Yes he is pretty polarising in his opinions on the game but as a Terran fan who enjoys mech he was someone who I enjoyed to watch. Yes, it was his choice to play off meta for years even when it clearly wasn't the best option. He has moaned and whined about balance for as long as time, but TL.net never seemed to have a problem with it. Was their a flash-point in which he went over the top or something?
Perhaps not all but at least some of the stuff about him calling people out for being hackers seems genuine and that does seem to be more prevalent on this last patch.
I hope both parties can sort this out!
As someone having moderator responsibilities in other forums (not on TL) I consider TL being quite forgiving when it comes to community figures. And with good reasons, as those keep a portion of the fans in that forum. (And an esports focused forum gets more credibility if players are present.)
On the other hand, a well-moderated forum provides a player with a credible platform. Avilo's posting which yielded the ban has to be viewed in the history of past postings.
I personally don't like how "old boys" treat players like Avilo (though I also don't see him accepting mentorship from experienced players) but from a general moderation standpoint, TL's decision is anything but a powertrip.
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On December 26 2018 22:03 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2018 11:47 Ve5pa wrote:
TL.net always seemed to be pretty fair to Avilo in the past. I'm not really sure what has changed? Yes he is pretty polarising in his opinions on the game but as a Terran fan who enjoys mech he was someone who I enjoyed to watch. Yes, it was his choice to play off meta for years even when it clearly wasn't the best option. He has moaned and whined about balance for as long as time, but TL.net never seemed to have a problem with it. Was their a flash-point in which he went over the top or something?
Perhaps not all but at least some of the stuff about him calling people out for being hackers seems genuine and that does seem to be more prevalent on this last patch.
I hope both parties can sort this out! As someone having moderator responsibilities in other forums ( not on TL) I consider TL being quite forgiving when it comes to community figures. And with good reasons, as those keep a portion of the fans in that forum. (And an esports focused forum gets more credibility if players are present.) On the other hand, a well-moderated forum provides a player with a credible platform. Avilo's posting which yielded the ban has to be viewed in the history of past postings. I personally don't like how "old boys" treat players like Avilo (though I also don't see him accepting mentorship from experienced players) but from a general moderation standpoint, TL's decision is anything but a powertrip.
Avilo has been around since Brood War and has only gotten worse. Over 10 years of avilo. Think about it.
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Avilo is spending a lot of time playing Red Alert 3 while being listed as a Terran SC2 player in the sidebar. Is that within the rules?
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Germany25657 Posts
Technically no, but it happens to a lot of other streamers as well that forget to switch to the correct game on twitch. It's not a big deal.
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Speaking of rules, which one did avilo break to get permanently banned?
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EPT
