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This isn't a thread about Artosis. |
On May 07 2011 03:48 Sethronu wrote:
It's hilarious how many people claim Cruncher is only where he is due to 'abusing op fotm strats' - if it were so easy, why is he winning games of that caliber and not you, your grandma, or any other of the thousands of Protoss players out there?
And don't give me this bs about 'self respect' and people who want a 'challenge', anyone who even TRIES to play competitively but doesn't use the most powerful strategies is simply retarded and not worthy of being called a 'pro' player.
Fyi, I hate Cruncher for knocking Mondy out of TSL but damn, the stupidity levels of this whine are astonishing. He's certainly by no means a terrible player.
Yeah whatever that means. I didnt watch games but games I have seen him in he displays remarkable strategy. For example, G1 in TSL vs IdrA Cruncher played it very safe knowing that was good map to get 3 easy defensible bases. Building fast stargate is great because the quick void allowed for defense against 2 base roach attacks and phoenix for great scouting so he could continue with his plan. Then Cruncher actually stopped making probes to save supply for more army for his death ball he was building. Idra wavered whole game with indecision because he expected 4gate as opposed to macro and not knowing where to attack threw many units away, and excellent defense by Cruncher IdrA lost his advantage. Cruncher had a plan and executed IdrA did not. G3 IdrA already saw 2 macro games from Cruncher when he was expecting "all he knows how to do is 4gate" Cruncher fooled IdrA again with a 5/6 gate while showing a nominal expansion fooling IdrA to make drones. IdrA also failed to minimize the effects of forcefields by baiting with smaller groups of units or spreading out his units. With NaNi Cruncher displayed similar genius in what people call build order loses which is nothing further from truth. Bottom line Chrucher is very good, results speak for themselves no matter what WhineRa's fanbois say.
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On May 07 2011 06:16 travis wrote:
So then WTF is your point? That the screenshot doesn't matter? Woopdy shit, no one ever said it did.
The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing).
Pretty sure Cruncher used this screenshot as proof to Chill that he was not listening in. Take your conflict to Cruncher because he said this screenshot mattered.
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On May 07 2011 05:52 DaggothReborn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time  cant accept a loss  about the 'cheating': sniping=waiting till he searches to search http://puu.sh/1Tpwas you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live) idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech) I have a few questions for you. I will provide picture evidence for your ease of answering. First, here are some pictures. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YL0I1.png) In this image, you can see the time you played idra. it is the 35:37 timestamp on his vod. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2sHDr.png) On this image, you can see when he plays this red terran on his stream. note the time, 1:06:54 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RCbJC.png) On this image you provided to us all, i noted 4 circles some things.. Red Circle: I pointed this part of your image out, because i am confused why you opened his stream just over 30 minutes later, after your game, when you were already logged in, and viewing his stream 40 minutes before that. Green Circle: I pointed this out because i am confused why you are watching the replay of your previous game 40 minutes later from your game. Yellow Circle: I pointed this out, because you can clearly see that this was a replay. Blue Circle: I pointed this out, because this circle points out that you "just" logged into your room and went live with your broadcast. As all viewers can see, if they save your image you uploaded, you took that screenshot at 5:30:30PM, which ironically is 30 minutes after your game with IdrA. This is a statement i can prove: You were logged into your Justin.TV account, and watching IdrAs stream as the match was starting, but failed to go to your own room until 40 minutes AFTER the game was over. And i am curious why you used the snipping tool to highlight your entire screen, but fail to capture the time? Most users who wanted to post a screenshot of their entire screen, would of just pressed the "prtscr" button on their keyboard. As you can see in the screenshot you provided, the user "sectionnine" posted a message at 5:03. You took the screenshot at 5:30. But you waited nearly an hour before posting on teamliquid? Why did you take this screenshot? What this looks like to me, is a screenshot if you viewing idras stream almost an hour AFTER your game was playing. What this image PROVES is you were watching his stream 40 minutes after your game was over. This still dont explain you being in idras room as your match was starting. This image dont disprove anything because this image was taken nearly an hour after the game. What i think happened: I think, after you beat idra, you seen his chat calling you out on watching his stream, so you quickly disconnected out of his room. You then went to teamliquid, and read through three pages until you seen my image that i posted showing PROOF that you were in his channel as the game ended. So, i think you started your stream, went to idras stream, pressed the mute button, the snapped a screenshot to defend yourself showing that the mutebutton was on. but when you took the screenshot, idra was playing a player much later in his stream from when he played you.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, Cruncher didn't take that screenshot, one of his viewers did. He even says it in his original message, "as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)". You could tell this because if it was Cruncher on his own channel right next to the "Speak" button in chat you'd have the "Time from last commercial" prompt on his own channel.
So your "deconstruction" of Cruncher trying to hide things by using the "sniping tool" is all BS since he didn't even take that screenshot. Gotta love it when people are frothing at the mouth so much that they don't even read to try to destroy someone. Blind hate is good!
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On May 07 2011 06:19 Nagano wrote:
The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing).
No... someone else used the screenshot as evidence that cruncher was cheating. Cruncher then showed the fact that in the screenshot the sound is muted, and he was just using the stream to snipe idra (as said by cruncher's viewers in the chat as well).
Getchoor facts straight.
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I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe.
The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again")
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le
Heres the replay
i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots.
i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in
go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3.
and i do the same build against ret right after.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173493-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
hint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me
edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
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I think his point is that people have been using the SS as proof the stream was muted when he played IdrA, which as we now know the SS is 30 minutes after he played IdrA. The SS doesn't show us anything other than he was in IdrA's stream at some point.
So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter.
I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
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On May 07 2011 06:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:19 Nagano wrote:
The point is Cruncher used this screenshot, uploaded by another person, to show he was not stream cheating during his game, when AT BEST, we can say this screenshot shows absolutely zero in support of Cruncher's statement. i.e., Cruncher cannot use this screenshot as evidence he did not stream cheat (which is what he is currently doing). No... someone else used the screenshot as evidence that cruncher was cheating. Cruncher then showed the fact that in the screenshot the sound is muted, and he was just using the stream to snipe idra (as said by cruncher's viewers in the chat as well). Getchoor facts straight.
Tell me what facts in my quote are wrong? I said Cruncher referred to that screenshot to show that he had the stream muted, but like Daggoth and I mentioned, the screenshot does not prove anything of the sort because it was taken 30 minutes after Cruncher's game with Idra? What am I missing?
On May 06 2011 07:30 Chill wrote: Original Message From CrunCher: sniping=waiting till he searches to search http://puu.sh/1Tpwas you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live) Business as usual. Recommend no action and warning people flaming his fanclub.
That is Cruncher stating "as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)" -- 30 minutes later. Does not prove the same for when he was actually playing against Idra.
Where am I wrong? Specifically point out please.
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lol cruncher im amazed at how collected u stay
On May 07 2011 06:25 Swineflew wrote:
So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter.
I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad.
in what way is sniping cheating?
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On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote:I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe. The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again") http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-leHeres the replay i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots. i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3. and i do the same build against ret right after. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173493-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolishint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings
Yeah, It's actually really funny. The part when he accuses you of stream cheating you had two ZEALOTS rallied outside your wall to combat a ROACH all in. Idk where people get these ideas.
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On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote:I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe. The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again") http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-leHeres the replay i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots. i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3. and i do the same build against ret right after. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173493-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolishint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5?
I don't think the evidence was strong enough to show you were stream cheating. And I think people need to respect that. The discussion the past 2 pages was of the screenshot posted and it's inability to show you were NOT stream cheating during the game vs Idra because it was taken at a much later time, that's all.
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On May 07 2011 06:28 travis wrote:lol cruncher im amazed at how collected u stay Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:25 Swineflew wrote:
So I agree, the screenshot is worthless and doesn't matter.
I personally think even stream sniping is bullshit and should be against the rules, but nobody else seems to care. I guess only some methods of cheating are bad. in what way is sniping cheating?
I'm not a big fan of using an outside source/third party/whatever to manipulate how the game works.
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On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote:I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe. The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again") http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-leHeres the replay i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots. i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3. and i do the same build against ret right after. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173493-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolishint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5? edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
On May 06 2011 07:30 Chill wrote:
Original Message From CrunCher:
sniping=waiting till he searches to search
http://puu.sh/1Tpw
as you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live)
Business as usual. Recommend no action and warning people flaming his fanclub.
He states the SS was taken to incriminate him, yet he told Chill that the SS was proof that the sound was muted. lol wut?
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Horribly irrelevant information now behind a spoiler tag.
+ Show Spoiler +first off the time stamp/name on Crunchers submitted image is "Screenshot (2011-05-05 at 05.30.30)" secondly a question concerning Crunchers submitted image. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BXbhE.png) here is what i caught from the image. 1) green : you can see the date/time ( almost un-discernible but it looks like 4:51 when zoomed) 2)red circle &blue arrows : Note that Firefox is the browser on the stream and Google chrome is the browser watching the stream
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United States22883 Posts
Cruncher, just curious for my own Protoss sake, why chronoboost the zealots? Is that a taldarim thing?
EDIT: Guess not, just watched the Ret game on Metalopolis and it's the same deal. Forge FE with 2 Gateways before CyC and 2 fast zealots.
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This might be totally unrelated but why does what do on battle.net impact what you do on teamliquid? Do the teamliquid administrators also govern battle.net?
Obviously I totally respect the right of teamliquid to ban anyone for any reason (it is their site afterall, this is not a public area owned by some governement etc) - I probably would have done the same on my own sites.
And obviously I recognize idra was banned for what he posted on TL.
It's the fact that chill pm'd cruncher to question him about it.
I suppose since many team liquid members receive the content by visiting the embedded streams on TL, if they are viewing people cheating it can reflect poorly on TL indirectly.
However, in my view, if you're going to stream these are the kinds of risks you may run into. Ultimately, this is not some major tournament with thousands of dollars on the line, it's a couple of elo points on battle.net. This whole drama may help increase viewership so maybe a few dozen dollars are on the line (justin.tv ads etc). Big whoooop. So even if Cruncher did cheat, who really cares? Would it make a difference if it was a custom game? What if me and my friend agree that I feel i'm so much better than him, I invite him to watch my stream to make it more challenging for myself? (not implying cruncher/idra did this, just hypothetically) - would this result in being PM'd by a TL mod / being warned?
Does this only apply to really popular players? What is the threshold? What if say...-orb- (picking him randomly off the list because I don't know him... sorry -orb- i'm sure you're gosu) was the one who "may have been cheating", would that invoke the same reactions?
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On May 07 2011 06:52 fubusama wrote:
This might be totally unrelated but why does what do on battle.net impact what you do on teamliquid? Do the teamliquid administrators also govern battle.net?
Obviously I totally respect the right of teamliquid to ban anyone for any reason (it is their site afterall, this is not a public area owned by some governement etc) - I probably would have done the same on my own sites.
And obviously I recognize idra was banned for what he posted on TL.
It's the fact that chill pm'd cruncher to question him about it.
I suppose since many team liquid members receive the content by visiting the embedded streams on TL, if they are viewing people cheating it can reflect poorly on TL indirectly.
However, in my view, if you're going to stream these are the kinds of risks you may run into. Ultimately, this is not some major tournament with thousands of dollars on the line, it's a couple of elo points on battle.net. This whole drama may help increase viewership so maybe a few dozen dollars are on the line (justin.tv ads etc). Big whoooop. So even if Cruncher did cheat, who really cares? Would it make a difference if it was a custom game? What if me and my friend agree that I feel i'm so much better than him, I invite him to watch my stream to make it more challenging for myself? (not implying cruncher/idra did this, just hypothetically) - would this result in being PM'd by a TL mod / being warned?
Does this only apply to really popular players? What is the threshold? What if say...-orb- (picking him randomly off the list because I don't know him... sorry -orb- i'm sure you're gosu) was the one who "may have been cheating", would that invoke the same reactions?
Cruncher has a fanclub thread, a stream thread, many followers, participates in important tournaments (TSL etc) and you're asking who cares if he cheats?
To answer your question, I doubt the mods would care if you stream cheated, or even maphacked on your stream, simply because you are not a progamer, are not a significant player in the SC2 community, and the mods probably have better things to do with their time. (I assume)
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Gratz Cruncher for being the best trollbaiter
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EPT
