EPTOn June 22 2010 16:26 MorningMusume11 wrote:
You want to put a time stamp on that statement? Because I don't know if you're implying best of all time or best of this current era. (And I know you're not speaking of your opinion but the lack of a time reference really irks me because it is needed and in this case, hip-hop of yrs ago can be measured) Because you wanna use a Flash / Boxer comparison? A more appropriate comparison if you want to use pro-gamer anologies is a Flash / NaDa. So let's use Tiger JK as NaDa, since he's had the longest longevity and success as an MC, vs. Dok2 / Flash, who's on fire right now. If you wanna say Dok2 is the best right now, ok fine. My problem with that is NaDa has 6 titles, Flash has 3. So this is where a time stamp means everything. Because overall, Tiger JK is still the best (his last promoted song was able to hit #5 on the Mnet charts) while Dok2 might be the best currently. By the way, good job of mentioning E-Sens twice (E-Sens and Supreme Team)
I think what seperate teh best MC's from lower tier S-Class ones is the ability to do well mainstream as well, and because of that, people like Tiger JK, Tablo, Outsider, Supreme Team aka Simon D and E-Sens are really up there because of that fact.
You want to put a time stamp on that statement? Because I don't know if you're implying best of all time or best of this current era. (And I know you're not speaking of your opinion but the lack of a time reference really irks me because it is needed and in this case, hip-hop of yrs ago can be measured) Because you wanna use a Flash / Boxer comparison? A more appropriate comparison if you want to use pro-gamer anologies is a Flash / NaDa. So let's use Tiger JK as NaDa, since he's had the longest longevity and success as an MC, vs. Dok2 / Flash, who's on fire right now. If you wanna say Dok2 is the best right now, ok fine. My problem with that is NaDa has 6 titles, Flash has 3. So this is where a time stamp means everything. Because overall, Tiger JK is still the best (his last promoted song was able to hit #5 on the Mnet charts) while Dok2 might be the best currently. By the way, good job of mentioning E-Sens twice (E-Sens and Supreme Team)
I think what seperate teh best MC's from lower tier S-Class ones is the ability to do well mainstream as well, and because of that, people like Tiger JK, Tablo, Outsider, Supreme Team aka Simon D and E-Sens are really up there because of that fact. I see your points and they are totally valid. I'd like to offer a rebuttal to a few of the points you've made.
Comparisons
Unofficial Time Stamp: I am uninformed as to how the majority of people see it, but (personally speaking) I'd say after the hype of Thunderground EP to currently. He is uncontested currently and many informed people can vouch for that. It is pretty hard to put an exact time stamp but after his Thunderground EP and he gained a lot more exposure to the masses, rather than after dropping his Thunderground Musik album back in 08 or so.
JK - I can see to it that he can be regarded as NaDa (longevity+success like you said), but the truth of the matter is, JK is one guy who paved the way for Korean hip-hop. Yes, there were others (DJ DOC et al) but in terms of recognition he takes the title. Original member of the Movement - still strong; didn't bounce like Shine. That is why I made him Boxer. In terms of who is NaDa, I'd say Tablo is NaDa because whatever he makes whether it's actual hip-hop or pop-rap, people gobble that shit up. All day everyday. But there is a definite difference in the level of significance, as JK *made* hip-hop mainstream in Korea. Whereas Tablo is just rocking steady.
+ Show Spoiler +
Dok2 - This kid was pop-rap with Microdot way back when, and they failed miserably. But he got recognized and after hearing this kid flow on his own, veterans admit he's *currently* the best. So after his much-hyped Thunderground EP, people listened to his tracks and say he's the illest (once again, not me). Hence I referred to him as Flash.
Difference in opinion
There is no right/wrong so just hear me out.
I don't tend to put too much value on mainstream success, especially Mnet/MelOn charts just because of the political nature of things (Ex. At one point in time, "All Black" was in the top 10. You and I both know that MicroDot can't rap for shit - Fact: his dad pulled strings for his son to be in the music industry). The charts aren't accurate reflections of skill but just recognizes what's popular. In a way you could say, that is the mark of a champ; but then again you have to realize the conditions of the Pop-centric nature of the Korean music industry. Epik High, Drunken Tiger, Supreme Team, Dynamic Duo, Outsider (the big names) all pretty much sold out once or twice and made pop-rap songs in order to maintain exposure of the masses. They got tight flows, but they still need to get by and market themselves.
One could argue Tiger JK being all-time champ sure, but not because the charts say so, but because of the impact he made on Korean hip-hop. But it would be hard to say Dok2 isn't the best currently while receiving so much acknowledgment from fans, hip-hop critics in Korea and peers for his raps (not looks, not instrumentals, just raw verses). I'm not too sure what you meant about "titles".
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