On December 27 2009 16:46 jalstar wrote: You can read into it as much as you want, but the humans are always portrayed negatively while the Navi are portrayed positively.
...because it if from their point of view for 90% of the movie, you say it would be more morally complex if humanity had more coverage, ok, feel free to watch your fantasy 1,000,000,000$ 300 minute long movie.
i just said that the movie should be shorter but ok.
most of the humans seemed ok, maybe a short clip about whether it's ok to blindly follow orders would have been nice.
the real problem is that the villains are bland and spout cliches, the villain should be someone that you love to hate, but the colonel and the corporate guy were just kind of, there, and did i mention the cliches? they spoke in cliche the whole movie.
i didn't care about the characters, good or bad, and that's unacceptable for a movie.
Fuck a clip you had that fit Latino chick for that
I don't quite get valuing a movie's worth based on its complexity. I understand that some movies make you think more than others, and this may be seen as a virtue, but why is it the ownness of the movie to make you think. I can think of plenty of fantastically complicated stories and movies that make some one think a hell of a lot, but they've eluded the consideration of huge amounts of people. I mean, all you really can say without assuming some authority you don't possess is whether or not you liked watching it. Does James Cameron have to beat you over the head into considering the humans' side in this? Fuck no get off your high horse. All this "this movie is bad because it wasn't an exposition on the careful balance human's share with the environment is a whole lot of
iunno maybe he made the humans appear to be so one dimensional because that's easier to digest and with whatever ridiculous budget was quoted the studio had digestion as a priority?
I mean it's not like the Navi people are made out to be all that. They're stupid as fuckkkkkkk and honestly are kind of ugly.
Was I the only one hoping to catch a glimpse of blue genitalia? maybe Watchmen spoiled me v0v
On December 27 2009 16:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote: They touch some more on why humanity needs Unobtainium on the official Avatar movie site and pandorapedia, but there's really no need to go into specific details in the movie.
That's not the main flaw of the movie, it just seemed really cartoonish out of context and I don't care enough to go to the website.
On December 27 2009 15:36 jalstar wrote: You're trying to add depth to the colonel and the corporation by explaining additional motives they might have had, however those were not explained in the movie, in the movie the antagonists just wanted to destroy the Navi and the spiritual tree network to get a mineral they could sell for money.
yes, if you just look at just the facts that were presented you're right, though id just point out that the final battle was also an act of self preservation by the humans as explained by the colonel (and whether he believed that or not is speculation, that's what he told his mercs and thats how he got them all riled up). if he was lying in his speech to further the corporation's hold on the planet, then i guess he is quite evil, but again thats speculative :D i agree it's harder to sympathize with the humans, and this was probably deliberate by cameron, but i don't agree that they were "evil". if anything, i'd say they were desperate.
He also said "we need to fight terror with terror", if Cameron wanted the colonel to be desperate but well-intentioned he did a very good job of hiding it.
On December 27 2009 16:12 Archerofaiur wrote: You know what made Starcraft suck. Remember when Kerrigan made Fenix harvest minerals for her to boost her Brood strength? They never really went into what those minerals would be used for. Or how she might have been justified in stealing them from the kel-morians. That whole plot wasnt that complex so therefore I am going to give Starcrafts plot a 5/10.
you don't get my point at all so this is a useless reply.
plenty of movies (and video games, as you pointed out) have pointless macguffins that are never explained, the problem is that people are saying that avatar is deep and complex because of the macguffin, it's only a macguffin
also kerrigan was a much better villain than the colonel, she had a background story and some badass lines (queen bitch of the universe) and was likable in a sick sort of way
the colonel drinks coffee and spouts cliches while killing blue people that some director wants me to like, in the name of getting money
Saying it's cartoonish and out of context is completely subjective and an opinion.
On December 27 2009 16:29 ShaperofDreams wrote: I have'nt ever seen a blizzard game as morally complicated as Avatar, I don't think you know what you're talking about., BW? WOW? Diablo?
there's nothing morally complicated about avatar at all, nearly movie ever made is more morally complex than avatar
That statement is retarded, and you still haven't explained how you could possibly think that a blizzard game is deep or morally complicated.
the villains in avatar are the most one-dimensional villains ever outside of cartoons
blizzard games, while not "deep", at least have a sort of lesser evil vs greater evil thing going on, ripped off of warhammer and warhammer 40k of course, it's simple compared to most movies but complex compared to avatar
hell, even the dialog in starcraft is good when you compare it to avatar
"queen bitch of the universe" vs "we're not in kansas anymore"
the corporation owner is hardly one-dimensional because it's obvious he feels guilty and regrets his actions when he sees first-hand their consequences
On December 27 2009 09:21 darktreb wrote: My advice to viewers:
You have to see this movie in 3D because it is simply unbelievable. You don't need to "turn off" your criticism-center of your brain but just don't let it deprive you of what is an awe-inspiring experience. You don't watch an incredible sunset or go sit on the beach on a perfect day for surprises. You do it because it is an amazing feeling even if you know what you're getting yourself into.
Again, you don't have to turn off your brain, but for your own sake try to alter the way you're looking at this movie because otherwise you're just some dude watching a magnificent sunset and going "this is how it looks every time". You're not wrong, but that wasn't the point, and you just deprived yourself of what could have been an incredibly enjoyable 2 1/2 hours. In the end, you're the only person who loses if that happens.
After watching the movie I felt like I was actually on their planet, doing a tour in some magical invisible floating contraption for 2 1/2 hours. I've never even come close to actually feeling "I was actually there doing a tour" for any other movie - it's always been "it looked fantastic but I saw it on a screen".
QFT this is what people need to do not go to find what is wrong with a movie and waste then ten bucks because your spending time looking at the negative parts of the movie rather than enjoying the movie for what it is
the story and characters and dialog are all terrible, you really do have to turn off your brain to enjoy it.
if it was more mindless action and about an hour shorter i would have enjoyed it for what it was, but i was bored out of my mind
what makes action "mindless" when it's meant to save an entire world?
because the world tree did get destroyed, and yet everyone still lived happily ever after. the humans weren't planning to kill all the navi until jake switched sides and the humans doubled in stereotypical hollywood evil levels
humans weren't demonized in this movie, and to call them "stereotypically" evil is evidence to your bias against this film.
if the audience wasn't viewing this from the Navi perspective, the actions of the humans could of very well be justified.
a bunch of natives are on a resource you desperately need, and won't move because they still have primitive beliefs about gods, goddesses and talking to nature.
The Navi sound like a very annoying obstacle. it's only because of the Avatars that we learn about their culture, and how their evolutionary biology is actually more advanced than anything our technology can come up with.
the general tries to smoke them out after they had already been told what was going to happen if they didn't. and only then does he return fire. we also see an example of a soldier who refuses to fire upon the natives. throughout out the movie there are clear signs that some humans know what they are dong is wrong -- but they are obviously living in desperate times, and this resource is important to economic recovery.
there's no way they could of understood what the Avatars were experiencing, and if someone told me not to chop down a tree because someone cared about it, i'd probably laugh too.
we never learned why humans need unobtainium, the only guy who ever mentions it is a complete stereotype: evil and corporate.
and the general is a cartoon villain, in fact i remember seeing deeper villains in actual kid's cartoons from my childhood.
very beginning of the movie we learn:
there is a terrible economy unobtainium is insanely valuable
put 2 and 2 together.
also, let's stop using the word stereotype in places where it doesn't belong. the guy you speak of has been dealing with a hostile (aggressively defensive, that is) native race and the movie takes place at the point where the humans are fed up with it and are ready to push instead of asking nicely.
so he is a stereotype because he's against the "good guys"? that's awfully vague, especially when the movie shows him hesitating several times in the movie and even going against the General's orders to give the Navi one more chance to leave safely.
This movie doesn't have time to play some big name actor as a complicated antagonist, and if they decided to include one it would ruin the movie. The immersion of this movie is unreal, and the characters are written in a way that will lend some raw emotion into the setting.
you know how terrible of a movie this would be if they wrote complex characters? Do you know how much longer it would be?
yo im fucking drunk and i say this is best gfucking movie fucking ever. and those of you who don't aggree can fuck that shit off cuz your opinion absolutly means shit cuz ur a dumb piece of shit.
On December 27 2009 19:42 CultureMisfits wrote: yo im fucking drunk and i say this is best gfucking movie fucking ever. and those of you who don't aggree can fuck that shit off cuz your opinion absolutly means shit cuz ur a dumb piece of shit.
dude guys there's no need to defend this movie any more....
If people want to go out of their way to NOT enjoy what is a spectacular experience, then why not let them? It's not like Avatar needs their repeat business.
I feel like there are people who feel like they have to dislike the movie because if they didn't they would permanently lose 5 IQ points or something. It's their loss.
I didn't walk out of the movie thinking "oh noes money is evil and we must save the environment nao gogo". I'm not at all an environmentalist and this movie definitely didn't change my stance on anything politically. In fact I had such a good time just admiring the experience that it didn't even cross my mind until later. Instead, I walked out of the movie thinking "that was amazing, I felt like I was visiting Pandora for 2 1/2 hours".
I had a really fucking good time seeing this movie and it made me feel great afterward. That's all that really matters to me.
On December 27 2009 15:00 ShaperofDreams wrote: Also, they really need this Unobtainium, the soldier says something like " I can't fix my legs, not on a soldiers salary, not in this economy" (obviously not an exact quote) This movie isn't shitting on humanity.
Any setting/movie/whatever that calls something rare "Unobtainium" isn't something I can take seriously and whoever approved that name should be punched repeatedly.
On December 27 2009 15:00 ShaperofDreams wrote: Also, they really need this Unobtainium, the soldier says something like " I can't fix my legs, not on a soldiers salary, not in this economy" (obviously not an exact quote) This movie isn't shitting on humanity.
Any setting/movie/whatever that calls something rare "Unobtainium" isn't something I can take seriously and whoever approved that name should be punched repeatedly.
Unobtanium is a word frequently used in Universities and University textbooks.
On December 27 2009 15:00 ShaperofDreams wrote: Also, they really need this Unobtainium, the soldier says something like " I can't fix my legs, not on a soldiers salary, not in this economy" (obviously not an exact quote) This movie isn't shitting on humanity.
Any setting/movie/whatever that calls something rare "Unobtainium" isn't something I can take seriously and whoever approved that name should be punched repeatedly.
Unobtanium is a word frequently used in Universities and University textbooks.
This. People need to stop throwing their ignorance around this thread.
I think we've exhausted all possible story lines that we need to soak it up with the graphics. The moment the credits rolled, I was thinking to myself, it was good.....
But what was good about the movie was the graphics. Jeez if someone made a replica of the movie in StarCraft (like, in campaign editor), he'll get stoned to death by everyone in this forum, it will be too predictable. Without the awesome graphics, the movie won't have shit to take your attention away from the storyline. Of course after you're just drooling with the graphics, the movie begins to build up against your emotion, and before you know it, you're just another one of those mindless people in the cinema looking at the screen and saying "ooohhs" and "aaahhs" to the graphics. Congrats, next generation graphics just did its job sending you to a zombie state while you're enjoying the graphics. Oh, isn't that what the regular television does? Numb off your mind and make you dependent on the next few frames for the answer. The graphics hid the predictable plot very well that you're arguing that the movie kicked ass, well the graphics kicked your brain cells as far as I can tell.
Go try watching the Rapture of Fe, or any other International Film Festival winners for that matter.
On December 28 2009 01:35 SilverSkyLark wrote: Uh, how do we define a good movie anyway?
I think we've exhausted all possible story lines that we need to soak it up with the graphics. The moment the credits rolled, I was thinking to myself, it was good.....
But what was good about the movie was the graphics. Jeez if someone made a replica of the movie in StarCraft (like, in campaign editor), he'll get stoned to death by everyone in this forum, it will be too predictable. Without the awesome graphics, the movie won't have shit to take your attention away from the storyline. Of course after you're just drooling with the graphics, the movie begins to build up against your emotion, and before you know it, you're just another one of those mindless people in the cinema looking at the screen and saying "ooohhs" and "aaahhs" to the graphics. Congrats, next generation graphics just did its job sending you to a zombie state while you're enjoying the graphics. Oh, isn't that what the regular television does? Numb off your mind and make you dependent on the next few frames for the answer. The graphics hid the predictable plot very well that you're arguing that the movie kicked ass, well the graphics kicked your brain cells as far as I can tell.
Go try watching the Rapture of Fe, or any other International Film Festival winners for that matter.
Very blunt and straightforward, but I agree. I've never cared for graphics in games or movies, so maybe that's why I tried to see beyond it and wanted the movie to be something more than it was.
Been checking boxofficemojo for box office records and so far avatar has grossed over 400+ million total worldwide including US numbers! Soon it will be at 500!!! woot woot!
The special effects were not as good as I thought they would be. But that's because I accidentally watched it in 2d and thought that was the actual movie. Then, I saw it in IMAX 3D and it totally blew me away. For people debating whether to watch it in 2d, please don't. I don't care if you have to drive 3 hours to watch it in 3D, do it. It's a completely different movie in 3D and you definitely won't regret the experience.
Oh yeah, I don't know what's up with the people in the forum that really like the movie....
but since we all appreciate the art of StarCraft, doesn't that imply that we don't give much of a damn about graphics and really look straight through the material's soul? Of course it's really hard to do that unless you watch the game over and over again. It's really hard to eat a cake without much icing since the material itself will force itself through your throat. Plus, it's a bit boring without the icing.
Maybe give it time and you'll come to realize that the cake you just ate was full of icing.
On December 28 2009 02:03 SilverSkyLark wrote: Oh yeah, I don't know what's up with the people in the forum that really like the movie....
but since we all appreciate the art of StarCraft, doesn't that imply that we don't give much of a damn about graphics and really look straight through the material's soul? Of course it's really hard to do that unless you watch the game over and over again. It's really hard to eat a cake without much icing since the material itself will force itself through your throat. Plus, it's a bit boring without the icing.
Maybe give it time and you'll come to realize that the cake you just ate was full of icing.
Because everyone has the same standards for what's icing and what's cake... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT...
Come on, it's fine that you think the movie was just "full of icing" but get off your high-horse. -_-
On December 28 2009 02:03 SilverSkyLark wrote: Oh yeah, I don't know what's up with the people in the forum that really like the movie....
but since we all appreciate the art of StarCraft, doesn't that imply that we don't give much of a damn about graphics and really look straight through the material's soul? Of course it's really hard to do that unless you watch the game over and over again. It's really hard to eat a cake without much icing since the material itself will force itself through your throat. Plus, it's a bit boring without the icing.
Maybe give it time and you'll come to realize that the cake you just ate was full of icing.
Because everyone has the same standards for what's icing and what's cake... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT...
Come on, it's fine that you think the movie was just "full of icing" but get off your high-horse. -_-
Hype and Stunning Visual Effects (CGI, 3D, IMAX) does not equal great cinema. I cringe every time I read an overly positive review of this movie. I've already lost hope in humanity for many other things but with 90% of the viewers giving this movie a 10/10, you'd naturally wonder what's wrong with the masses? Does Cameron really deserve all this praise? It makes me ashamed of being human. You guys deserve to watch real movies. It's pretty sad how one guy pointed out he was losing IQ while reading my reply. Maybe it was because he just came home from a stunning IMAX 3D visual orgasm experience and everyone who hates this masterpiece are idjits! The irony.
On December 28 2009 02:03 SilverSkyLark wrote: Oh yeah, I don't know what's up with the people in the forum that really like the movie....
but since we all appreciate the art of StarCraft, doesn't that imply that we don't give much of a damn about graphics and really look straight through the material's soul? Of course it's really hard to do that unless you watch the game over and over again. It's really hard to eat a cake without much icing since the material itself will force itself through your throat. Plus, it's a bit boring without the icing.
Maybe give it time and you'll come to realize that the cake you just ate was full of icing.
Because everyone has the same standards for what's icing and what's cake... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT...
Come on, it's fine that you think the movie was just "full of icing" but get off your high-horse. -_-
Hype and Stunning Visual Effects (CGI, 3D, IMAX) does not equal great cinema. I cringe every time I read an overly positive review of this movie. I've already lost hope in humanity for many other things but with 90% of the viewers giving this movie a 10/10, you'd naturally wonder what's wrong with the masses? Does Cameron really deserve all this praise? It makes me ashamed of being human. You guys deserve to watch real movies. It's pretty sad how one guy pointed out he was losing IQ while reading my reply. Maybe it was because he just came home from a stunning IMAX 3D visual orgasm experience and everyone who hates this masterpiece are idjits! The irony.
You are a white dude whos list of 10/10 movies consists of 3 asian flicks with debatable reputation and semi bad plots. Someone is obsessed? Call Avatar brainwashing but youve done worse - youve brainwashed yourself into thinking that those were ultimate art when in fact they arent. Ive done some research on them and im not impressed. This filipino guy above you mentioned rapture of fe, another average movie, surprisingly its filipino flick. Its nice to watch for a change, just like i enjoyed one movie about equador dishwasher falling in love with chinese waitress. But why the fuck would i watch it twice, i got the message. Hardships and stunning reality? Give me a fucking break. They all just movies. And all of this still doesnt explain why would someone rag on Avatar. Have you read ANY sci fi? I asked this question already, its like people dont even know what theyre talking about. Van Vogt, Harry Harrison? Aizek Azimov? Robert Sheckley? The purpose of sci fiction is to carry you to a different reality not to convey a hidden message that you wont be getting on the first try. They do that TOO, but you can find those in Avatar AS WELL. Is the plot so bad for a sci fi? FUck no, its awesome. How is it worse then any other great sci fi movie? Im starting to think you guys are a bunch of idiots after all. You are so pretentious its comical. "No blockbuster movie can be 10/10" sure Shauni, the list of the "10/10 movies" you gave is just absurd. If its your own little fetish only you can enjoy then why do you call everybody else retarded for liking an awesome sci fi movie that wasnt supposed to do anything you suggested? Are you this dense? Have you seen 7 samurai? Isnt it cliche to the max? 7 guys giving their lives for some bunch of greedy uneducated peasants for no material gain? Fuck off with that cliche talk, YOU ARE CLICHE with it. Go watch some underground half assed stories with production so raw that you keep wondering if its genius or just retarded.
EPT
