EPTon the outsmarting front it is much better than NGNL overall imo.
It does have its flaws, but the overall feel is very different compared to NGNL.
Not everything can be as mind blowing as Liar game
Anime Discussion Thread - Page 6004
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net | ||
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abuse
Latvia1934 Posts
on the outsmarting front it is much better than NGNL overall imo. It does have its flaws, but the overall feel is very different compared to NGNL. Not everything can be as mind blowing as Liar game | ||
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Miragee
8542 Posts
On April 26 2017 22:07 abuse wrote: Kakegurui does have some asspull'ish moments, but overall it's not bad imo. Then again I didn't mind NGNL in the least, it had comedy to fall back on if outsmart stuff wasn't good enough. Then again #2 the chess part of NGNL was pretty bad lol on the outsmarting front it is much better than NGNL overall imo. It does have its flaws, but the overall feel is very different compared to NGNL. Not everything can be as mind blowing as Liar game Alright, thank you for the information! The fact that you view the NGNL chess game as bad - some people here actually really liked it - ups my optimism in regards to Kakegurui. In other news, I watched "the girl who leapt through time" the other day. Was pretty funny to watch two time travel anime movies in just a few days. I think both, Kimi no na wa and time-leap girl, did a pretty terrible job regarding the actual time-travel mechanic. But whatever, I found time-leap girl to be rather entertaining - a tad more than Kimi no na wa. In the end they were both fairly ok. I have also started watching Nastume s1. 4 eps in and I like it so far. | ||
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Lackbleeder
741 Posts
http://fightingfornippon.com/never-trust-anime-translation-4chan/ Most important points : - Keijo was going to get axed no matter what, it was already decided before the anime even started airing. - The author overworked himself because he didn't have an assistant, the publisher didn't/couldn't find a talented assistant. - Keijo sold closer to 7000 copies for volume 1 rather than 700 - the publisher wasn't even involved in the production committee of the anime. I really can't wrap my head around the last point, anime production works in mysterious ways. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
And i guess it got cancelled because of author overwork (because afaik it was doing alright as a manga)? :/ that sucks But yeah, the anime industry seems like a fucking awful industry | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 27 2017 05:10 Lackbleeder wrote: Looks like the 4ch translation of the statement from Keijo's author was fake. http://fightingfornippon.com/never-trust-anime-translation-4chan/ Most important points : - Keijo was going to get axed no matter what, it was already decided before the anime even started airing. - The author overworked himself because he didn't have an assistant, the publisher didn't/couldn't find a talented assistant. - Keijo sold closer to 7000 copies for volume 1 rather than 700 - the publisher wasn't even involved in the production committee of the anime. I really can't wrap my head around the last point, anime production works in mysterious ways. RIP the author, and while the world is losing something priceless and irreplaceable as the miracle known as Keijo, at least it isn't some huge injustice being inflicted upon the world by Japanese anime fans | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I personally wasn't sure if the source might have just have been altered (as in, something that was there earlier got deleted, idk how that blog works) or if it's just completely made up but it was pretty clear that the reasoning for stopping was at best wrong, at worst made up at that point. The 7k for volume1 he claims is a bit weird though. It doesn't really answer the question if it's just a plain mistake or the usual bias that's true for every series, an excerp from some FAQ about oricon numbers [where the 700number is most certainly taken from] + Show Spoiler [FAQ] + 3.1 Oricon Inc The following Oricon publications are relevant to our discussions: Tuesday: Top 50 all-genre DVD, Top 30 animation-only DVD, Top 20 all-genre BD, Top 10 animation-only BD Thursday: Top 100 all-genre DVD, Top 100 all-genre BD Monthly: Top 50 all-genre DVD, Top 50 all-genre BD Yearly: Mid-year YTD rankings, Full-year annual rankings (various thresholds) The following describes the changes in ranking coverage over the years. The first number is the threshold after which Oricon stops counting sales towards the total. The latter is the threshold after which we don’t have access to the data: DVD Weekly Ranking – 2002/10/07： Top 100 – 2003/07/07： Top 300 / 100 BD Weekly Ranking – 2008/07/07： Top 50 / 30 – 2011/03/14： Top 100 / 50 – 2012/12/24: Top 200 / 100 The list of retailers Oricon receives data from can be found here: http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/about/ When posting the sales data, the following format is used: 10 (*29) *52 *1,155 381,946 *11 Evangelion Shin Gekijouban: Q (Evangelion 3.33) — (*32) — *1,115 **1,115 **1 Ao no Exorcist Movie RE From left to right, the numbers are: – Ranking in Tuesday animation-only list – Ranking in Tuesday or Thursday all-genre list – Ranking in last week’s all-genre list, if applicable – Sales this week – Cumulative sales to date – Number of weeks ranked – Title of release 3.1.1 Oricon’s Pros - Industry leader, trustworthy, timely, a long (enough) history (back to 2000), and above all available. - The most level playing field we can get. Relying on distributor numbers would be highly problematic, as they rarely report sales and often do so imprecisely and without much context. With Oricon, a third party is reporting sales direct from retailers. 3.1.2 Oricon’s Cons - Not everything is reported. As seen in 3.1, if a disc ranks outside the first threshold it’s never counted, outside the second threshold we don’t (directly) see it. - Thresholds can be high enough to prevent low sellers from ranking at all, or ranking past the first week. - Due to the above (and other factors), sales reporting is heavily front-loaded, with very few discs ranking beyond their first 2 weeks. - Because coverage methods and video formats have changed over time, comparing sales of recent series to those from even 5 years ago is difficult. - While they cover many retailers, by no means do they cover all. KyoAni Shop, for example, does not report sales to Oricon. - There can be very large gaps between what Oricon reports and what distributors report. See this post for examples. 3.1.3 Oricon’s Biases - Because Oricon reports on a finite number of releases each week, the best way to make the rankings is to have sales compressed in the first 1-2 weeks. This ensures you make the rankings at least once. This is exactly how late night anime operates, which is why Oricon works so well for our purposes. - This does mean that Oricon is less useful for “slow burn” series that accumulate sales over a long period. Kids’ shows, for example, are less likely to rack up large preorder sales. Their sales would presumably come over a longer period of time in smaller doses, usually falling short of Oricon thresholds, and therefore not being reported. Particularly as many are DVD only, where thresholds are higher. - Shows with a broader mainstream appeal can also be underrepresented on Oricon. Nodame Cantabile might be an extreme example but during an interview a producer for noitaminA stated that over time, Nodame Cantabile has actually sold three times what has been reported through Oricon (or through 2ch as he puts it). For a series that has gone on for three seasons over a period of years, airs on the more mainstream noitaminA block, plays out like a soap opera, and has a successful live action adaptation, this seems believable. - Another example given in the same interview is noitaminA show Hakaba Kitarou, which saw a bump in orders after the original mangaka’s wife published the autobiography “Hakaba no Nyoubou”. - This situation would apply to few of the anime we report on here but should be understood anyway. - Oricon does not count international orders! See this post for more details. It’s unknown when they stopped counting international orders, but it was some time before June 2014. taken from: www.someanithing.com | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Oricon gives a good idea but can also make mistakes and miss sales from certain sources, i mean in the FAQ you posted yourself it even lists that there is a list of retailers that it takes its data from, in turn implying that there are retailers it does not have data from For example: - While they cover many retailers, by no means do they cover all. KyoAni Shop, for example, does not report sales to Oricon. from the very FAQ you just posted yourself lol | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 27 2017 05:46 Unleashing wrote: Toad you seem to think that oricon tracks all sales, it doesn't Oricon gives a good idea but can also make mistakes and miss sales from certain sources, i mean in the FAQ you posted yourself it even lists that there is a list of retailers that it takes its data from, in turn implying that there are retailers it does not have data from For example: from the very FAQ you just posted yourself lol yeah I know, that's exactly the point. Exactly BECAUSE it doesn't track all sources that should be more or less true for all series. So yes, if you have 700 reported by oricon you're going to sell more in reality because they don't track everything, but unless something big happens that should be more or less the same for every series. As in, a series that ranks at 10k is going to sell more than 10k in reality as well. Thus the 700 isn't necessarily better just because he knows the exact numbers if people usually go by "700 as a ranking on oricon is usually pretty bad" as that's the comparison people go by. That is unless Keijo really did not sell significantly different than most other shows. tl;dr: Him giving more details on the actual numbers of sales really isn't that useful to determine anything unless you get the same numbers for something else or show that Keijo is an outlier selling a lot more through retailers that aren't reported than others. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Some series have special editions only sold by certain retailers for example (amazon exclusive editions for example) so unless we get data on which retailers primarily sold keijo and then compare it with another show then it's hard to really tell | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 27 2017 05:54 Unleashing wrote: It depends on what retailers the series was primarily sold by, some anime might be primarily sold by retailers that oricon do track whilst keijo might have been sold by a lot of retailers that they do not track Some series have special editions only sold by certain retailers for example (amazon exclusive editions for example) so unless we get data on which retailers primarily sold keijo and then compare it with another show then it's hard to really tell yeah, that's basicly the point I tried to make | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
So keijo must be an outlier in some way, otherwise a lot of anime would be far more profitable than the industry seems to imply | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 27 2017 05:51 Toadesstern wrote: yeah I know, that's exactly the point. Exactly BECAUSE it doesn't track all sources that should be more or less true for all series. So yes, if you have 700 reported by oricon you're going to sell more in reality because they don't track everything, but unless something big happens that should be more or less the same for every series. As in, a series that ranks at 10k is going to sell more than 10k in reality as well. Thus the 700 isn't necessarily better just because he knows the exact numbers if people usually go by "700 as a ranking on oricon is usually pretty bad" as that's the comparison people go by. That is unless Keijo really did not sell significantly different than most other shows. tl;dr: Him giving more details on the actual numbers of sales really isn't that useful to determine anything unless you get the same numbers for something else or show that Keijo is an outlier selling a lot more through retailers that aren't reported than others. Are you really taking issue with the actual numbers of how well Keijo sold being better than what Oricon said? Its like it offended you somehow and now you have to try and discredit it. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 27 2017 06:04 Unleashing wrote: However, it's highly unlikely that it's normal or even typical for a series to actually sell 10x of what oricon lists So keijo must be an outlier in some way, otherwise a lot of anime would be far more profitable than the industry seems to imply yeah but even as an outlier 10 times more than what's reported sounds insane. So maybe some kind of typo or mistake in the original oricon ranking? | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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Lackbleeder
741 Posts
It could explain why some other shows with mediocre sales ended up having multiple seasons though aside from boosting source material sales (TWGOK for example, who knows how much the first 2 seasons actually sold) | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 27 2017 06:19 Sentenal wrote: There is global conspiracy to undermine Keijo and try to rewrite history to make people think it wasn't GOAT, and the Oricon thing is just one cog in the conspiracy Unfortunately when you look throughout history at the revolutionary innovation that people great it is often met with scorn. People hate what they cannot fathom. One just has to be the change, show the world that greatness can be unfathomable. Keijo will not fall easily my brother. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 27 2017 06:19 Sentenal wrote: There is global conspiracy to undermine Keijo and try to rewrite history to make people think it wasn't GOAT, and the Oricon thing is just one cog in the conspiracy there is no need for a conspiracy seeing as Keijo really wasn't GOAT, go figure lol | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
funnily enough people on english speaking websites always claimed that it's a woman writing it. I know I run across that claim on MAL at some time, asked where people got that information from and asked for a source since I couldn't find anything specific on wiki/blog and got yelled at by people "omg, don't you think people would have realized that it's not a woman during autograph sessions?" etc. Resulting in me, at that point also just straight up believing it since so many people got angry about me daring to ask for a source. I guess it turns out that was also just some random guy spouting bullshit? | ||
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IceHism
United States1903 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On April 27 2017 06:29 BigFan wrote: there is no need for a conspiracy seeing as Keijo really wasn't GOAT, go figure lol How can Keijo be the GOAT when LoGH exists (at least for Sent)? | ||
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