Anime Discussion Thread - Page 4519

So I said I liked Tsukimonogatari a lot, probably in my top3 arcs so far, because I particularly liked the sad (for me) turn it took in the end, even though it was obvious with the name of the arc and it being hinted so heavily The other guys on irc seemed to think it wasn't sad at all. So here's my take on it:

The story is about Yotsugi and shows how she tried to be just like a human despite knowing that she isn't one. Unlike Shinobu in the first minutes of the episode I did not think that it was just a means to look like a human but an honest attempt to be more like one.
So it starts out with that monologue we know from the trailer. Emphasising quite a lot on her being something "special", not being human.
Throughout the arc you realize that all those catchphrases she used in nisemonogatari and koimonogatari are her attempts to show emotion despite being unable to properly get that across as the doll she is.
Now as the story goes on the emphasis is quite heavily on her actually having emotions at least twice with her stating that she feels shame when her skirt is flipped and her stating that, if she has to fight Araragi she would do that because it's an order but she doesn't want to do it. Also more minor ones iirc.
That's a side you didn't get about her from Nisemonogatari. Timeskip to the very end of the arc,here's what tadatsuru has to say, directed at yotsugi:
+ Show Spoiler [pics] +
So even he does realize it.

She' playful, likes to joke around as seen in Koimonogatari when she's talking with Kaiki and the whole point of her being in a frickin crane-game in tsukimonogatari.
Moreover she goes out of her way to say those terrible lines, stating that she's embarassed, saying that she feels like getting a cold despite not physically being able to get one AND knowing that she wouldn't get one and so on and so on.
Long story short, it's safe to say, imo, that yotsugi really wants to be more humanlike, even if just a little.

So that's the basic story that's being told here imo. And what was it that happened? You get to listen to her say those things, how she really wants to be more like a human, those 3 get kidnapped, Araragi tells her to the face to not kill tadatsuru because that would about shred the last pieces he considers human about her. That scene btw, was indeed quite a stupid moment as most people thought. Of course it was just him trying to talk her out of doing anything "stupid" not thinking about it but it was quite a "MC-kun has to be the shiny knight with morals firm as a rock no matter what" scene. Basicly in that scene, Araragi was everything I hated about Touma from Index...
Moving on, she then kills tadatsuru, walks up to Araragi and tells him that she is in fact a monster, with a bow no less.
And that was that. It should have ended exactly there.

So here's the difference in opinion. I thought that that was a massivly sad turn of events, even knowing what was to come. The others said they don't think she or anyone else cares really because she is just a doll / Araragi doesn't consider her to have emotions so what about it. I do agree that the very ending is stupid that way in that it makes it look like nothing changes at all but with how I thought about it up to that point it didn't really change anything about my opinion on it anymore. Mostly because I was just thinking about her completly giving up on what she wants to be while being completly emotionless about it.

My whole argument is that the whole thing is silly. She is I guess on a fundamental level not "human" but some doll in the image as one. So what? As long as she strives to be human like then who the hell is to tell her she isn't? She shouldn't give a shit about the small technicalities. Like that guy who got killed said "Do it with human compassion" he knew that she wasn't restricted and in fact she restricts herself by her need to put a label on things. I do agree with you that Araragi is a moron and his comment (not sure how serious he was about it or if he was just trying to make her not kill him) is crude and insensitive. Killing does not somehow magically take away any sense of humanity she might have had, as she brought up humans kill each other all the time. She isn't a "monster" in any shape or form, she is just different from a normal person. The people in this series insist on slapping labels on people then acting in some perceived acceptable way towards them. Even the specialists are like closely monitoring Araragi seeing when he crosses some arbitrary threshold of acceptability before he becomes a "monster". The whole thing smacks of a child's view on how the world works, black and white with no wiggle room. Which is why in the end they kind of negate that with the end scene that shows that Araragi isn't going to shy away and reject her (even though her killing that guy was the intended effect I guess). Basically she just needs to realize that "being human" isn't some simple concept and that she doesn't need anyone else but herself to define her own identity. The series is also pretty vague on what level of emotions she might or might not experience. If she truly is what her owner says then this whole incident wouldn't do anything at all for her because its all the same to her (much like how human androids are depicted in sci fi). If she does have those emotions (albeit at obvious an underdeveloped level) then yes there is some room there to say its sad because she likely can't grasp the subtleties and possibly might take Araragi's words as absolute. However, that last scene seems to show that he isn't going to be a dick to her about it so she should be fine. They even mentioned in their talk that the "plan to put distance between them" failed.

I agree with that. She should not be influenced by it that much but she is. Otherwise she would not have gone out of her way and told him that she's a monster. I'm fairly sure that sentence had meaning to her. Otherwise she would not have said it in that situation and that's the whole reason why I'm calling it so sad.
She does take it that way. Wether or not she should do it isn't so much a thing as it did happen if I'm right here.

Sure there's a chance for her story to go on but right now that's what we're at

Hmm, I focused on that statement from her more as part of the warning narrative to make Araragi stop using his powers, using herself as an example. Its hard to tell though with her character.