EPT[Manga] Naruto - Page 617
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:03 Dattish wrote: Watch someone being entrusted with the secrets of the Edo Tensei by the Second.... Neji comes in: "We Hyuuga were believed to have mutated sharingan eyes, but in reality we were failed experiments by the 2nd to remake the sage with sharingan and senju blood. We were taught how to release the edo tensei by the 2nd and have passed it down! That's the real secret of our clan! Naruto, you set me free, now I'll set you free!" Why does it fit so well for kishi's writing lolol. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:25 BlackPaladin wrote: Neji comes in: "We Hyuuga were believed to have mutated sharingan eyes, but in reality we were failed experiments by the 2nd to remake the sage with sharingan and senju blood. We were taught how to release the edo tensei by the 2nd and have passed it down! That's the real secret of our clan! Naruto, you set me free, now I'll set you free!" Why does it fit so well for kishi's writing lolol. because it doesnt and makes no sense at all? Naruto never set Neji free, Neji is still a "caged bird" he just gave Neji a kick in the ass | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:19 acker wrote: Kinda, the whole Neji-Naruto fight was on predetermination. Neji's free in the sense that he no longer thinks he's destined to live on one path. but hes still not free in the literal sense that his uncle can kill him whenever the fuck he feels like | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
That said, I doubt he'll choose to go down the "kill the main family" path, as the main family seems to have changed for the better, if the conversation between his uncle and zombie father is anything to go by. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:27 acker wrote: Of course he's not literally free, but he's still better off than when he thought his chains were inevitable and unbreakable. That said, I doubt he'll choose to go down the "kill the main family" path, as the main family seems to have changed for the better. no he was pretty far from the "genocide" path even at his worst there not Uchihas they actually knoew ways to resolve conflicts that dont involve drastic actions like killing tere entire family and starting a world war | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:20 Forikorder wrote: but hes still not free in the literal sense that his uncle can kill him whenever the fuck he feels like Yep, but the entire thing ended with neji going "i can make my own destiny! herp derp" (without remembering uncle dear can kill him at any moment lol.) Obito's beliefs that you can't change anything is on a similar ideological path that there is some predetermined destiny. That you can't do this and that. etcetc. That we're all a "caged bird" and are bound to our fates. In obito's mind, we're all doomed to experience loss, suffering, defeat, and that the world is inherently flawed so he wants to make a perfect world where such things do not exist. It's actually a similar idea to neji being a bound to his fate as part of the branch family. And the point was to make little sense yet have some theme that is supposed to go together with everything. That's how kishi writes.  | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:33 BlackPaladin wrote: Yep, but the entire thing ended with neji going "i can make my own destiny! herp derp" (without remembering uncle dear can kill him at any moment lol.) Don't be silly. The whole point was that no change was possible if he surrendered to the status quo. He might still be caged, but now he's actively looking for ways to change his fate. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:33 BlackPaladin wrote: Yep, but the entire thing ended with neji going "i can make my own destiny! herp derp" (without remembering uncle dear can kill him at any moment lol.) Obito's beliefs that you can't change anything is on a similar ideological path that there is some predetermined destiny. That you can't do this and that. etcetc. That we're all a "caged bird" and are bound to our fates. In obito's mind, we're all doomed to experience loss, suffering, defeat, and that the world is inherently flawed so he wants to make a perfect world where such things do not exist. It's actually a similar idea to neji being a bound to his fate as part of the branch family. And the point was to make little sense yet have some theme that is supposed to go together with everything. That's how kishi writes. no thats not what Obito thinks hes fully aware taht you can change stuff he just refuses to beleive taht any changes for the good would last or would outdo any of the evil in the world if Obito thought as Neji thought then he wouldnt bother with the moon's eye plan since were all doomed to live miserably lives hed jsut assume it would fail | ||
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Diglett
600 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:33 BlackPaladin wrote: Yep, but the entire thing ended with neji going "i can make my own destiny! herp derp" (without remembering uncle dear can kill him at any moment lol.) Obito's beliefs that you can't change anything is on a similar ideological path that there is some predetermined destiny. That you can't do this and that. etcetc. That we're all a "caged bird" and are bound to our fates. In obito's mind, we're all doomed to experience loss, suffering, defeat, and that the world is inherently flawed so he wants to make a perfect world where such things do not exist. It's actually a similar idea to neji being a bound to his fate as part of the branch family. And the point was to make little sense yet have some theme that is supposed to go together with everything. That's how kishi writes. kinda offtopic and i think i posted this before but in my mind part of what makes naruto so dark is this theme of destiny and fate. part 1 is about fighting destiny, about hard work and the will of fire fighting and then overpowering things you were born with or into (see naruto vs neji/gaara/sasuke). part 2 is about embracing destiny and the things you were born with and into (see the prophecy, kurama, minato). basically part 2 naruto has seen the truth that he fought against in part 1. this whole thing isn't really that important to the story...i mean you can have both things but it's just something i noticed. i dunno really...that's kinda how i see it, if someone can convince me otherwise that this is actually good writing or im seeing it wrong feel free to respond. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:54 Diglett wrote: kinda offtopic and i think i posted this before but in my mind part of what makes naruto so dark is this theme of destiny and fate. part 1 is about fighting destiny, about hard work and the will of fire fighting and then overpowering things you were born with or into (see naruto vs neji/gaara/sasuke). part 2 is about embracing destiny and the things you were born with and into (see the prophecy, kurama, minato). basically part 2 naruto has seen the truth that he fought against in part 1. this whole thing isn't really that important to the story...i mean you can have both things but it's just something i noticed. i dunno really...that's kinda how i see it, if someone can convince me otherwise that this is actually good writing or im seeing it wrong feel free to respond. you never stated why you think its bad writing... | ||
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Diglett
600 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:57 Forikorder wrote: you never stated why you think its bad writing... it's obvious...themes between part 1 and 2 are pretty dissonant. im just wondering whether kishi intentionally set it up this way to make the manga dark or he just randomly stumbled upon it or my interpretation is bad. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:41 Forikorder wrote: no thats not what Obito thinks hes fully aware taht you can change stuff he just refuses to beleive taht any changes for the good would last or would outdo any of the evil in the world if Obito thought as Neji thought then he wouldnt bother with the moon's eye plan since were all doomed to live miserably lives hed jsut assume it would fail Their thought processes are similar, but not exactly the same, which is exactly what I just said..... I just found the parallels between part 1 and 2 iteresting. Neji believed you can't change destiny and that you are bound to a fate that was predeterminded. Winners vs losers. You're either born a winner or born a loser. Obito thinks regardless of what you do, it won't change that there are "bad things" in the world. No matter what, in the end there are still losers, there is still pain, and there will still be loss. You can try to change things but in the end these things still will exist. The 2 ideas are inherently similar in that they both believe that there is a predetermined outcome. Neji's was a very basic idea and naruto showed you should keep trying because change is possible. Now you get to obito, who is passed that stage. He understands like neji now does that change is possible, but obito believes that even though some change is possible, there are still inherent flaws in the world, as I've already said many times now. Because of that, he wants to create a world where there are no flaws: a world with no pain, no losers, where you can succeed in all your endeavors. A so called "perfect" world. So naruto needs to find a way to now stop that, to find an answer against this more complex problem than what he had in the old neji fight. It just seems ironic to me that the hyuuga clan's eyes at the beginning of the manga were believed to be some type of mutated sharingan, and neji had ideals similar albeit less refined to obito and madara, possessers of the sharingan. So to me it would seem funny and very kishi-like to randomly bring up that mutated sharingan ststement as an actual fact now that we are like 600 chapters past that. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 07 2012 16:19 BlackPaladin wrote: Their thought processes are similar, but not exactly the same, which is exactly what I just said..... I just found the parallels between part 1 and 2 iteresting. Neji believed you can't change destiny and that you are bound to a fate that was predeterminded. Winners vs losers. You're either born a winner or born a loser. Obito thinks regardless of what you do, it won't change that there are "bad things" in the world. No matter what, in the end there are still losers, there is still pain, and there will still be loss. You can try to change things but in the end these things still will exist. The 2 ideas are inherently similar in that they both believe that there is a predetermined outcome. Neji's was a very basic idea and naruto showed you should keep trying because change is possible. Now you get to obito, who is passed that stage. He understands like neji now does that change is possible, but obito believes that even though some change is possible, there are still inherent flaws in the world, as I've already said many times now. Because of that, he wants to create a world where there are no flaws: a world with no pain, no losers, where you can succeed in all your endeavors. A so called "perfect" world. So naruto needs to find a way to now stop that, to find an answer against this more complex problem than what he had in the old neji fight. It just seems ironic to me that the hyuuga clan's eyes at the beginning of the manga were believed to be some type of mutated sharingan, and neji had ideals similar albeit less refined to obito and madara, possessers of the sharingan. So to me it would seem funny and very kishi-like to randomly bring up that mutated sharingan ststement as an actual fact now that we are like 600 chapters past that. wasnt it said that the Hyuga are actually ancesters of the Sharingan and the Sharingan was a descendant of the Byakugan? it's obvious...themes between part 1 and 2 are pretty dissonant. im just wondering whether kishi intentionally set it up this way to make the manga dark or he just randomly stumbled upon it or my interpretation is bad. TBH i dont really see the part 2 theres been some talk of prophecy but never was it stated the prophecy was ever set in stone and it always reinforced the idea that if you keep trying and never give up it will all work out (like Jiraiyas dying moments) and Naruto has never come to the point where he thinks thats anything set in stone hes like he was pre-time skip willing to struggle against all odds | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Lol yeppp Kishi makes no sense np. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On the other hand, Byakugan doesn't give you the ability to mindrape your enemies, set them on fire, and summon impenetrable spirit armor. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5714 Posts
On December 07 2012 17:50 acker wrote: Sharingan doesn't give you 360-degree noclip vision. On the other hand, Byakugan doesn't give you the ability to mindrape your enemies, set them on fire, and summon impenetrable spirit armor. I don't know why but that comment made me laugh pretty hard. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On December 07 2012 17:50 acker wrote: Sharingan doesn't give you 360-degree noclip vision. On the other hand, Byakugan doesn't give you the ability to mindrape your enemies, set them on fire, and summon impenetrable spirit armor. Lets not forget, infinite loop a mother fucker like he's some bad programming code, or anytime you're REALLY in a jam, just say JUST KIDDING REALITY SWAP FOR AN EYEBALL. GOOD THING I CAN STOCKPILE EM. | ||
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