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On September 28 2012 07:28 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:10 Courthead wrote:On September 28 2012 05:57 Hyperbola wrote:
Inb4 Rin's death is set up and Naruto converts Obito to the light side through plot magic. i believe its called "talk no jutsu" Likewise is Rin´s death also by "Plot no Jutsu"(unless it is of course some treachery by Madara that causes her death). Maybe the Manga is getting better again and we doubters are all just bitter because of the sheer amount of disappointment in the last 100-200 chapters or so.
Hmm what do you mean Rin's death is plot not jutsu unless Madara sets it up?
My take on things is that witnessing Rin's death is the impetus for Obito becoming the villain he is now, whether Madara set it up or not. If that didn't happen, then either Madara would have had to find another way to convince Obito, or Obito simply would't be a part of the story.
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On September 28 2012 14:50 Courthead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 07:28 Mataza wrote:On September 28 2012 06:10 Courthead wrote:On September 28 2012 05:57 Hyperbola wrote:
Inb4 Rin's death is set up and Naruto converts Obito to the light side through plot magic. i believe its called "talk no jutsu" Likewise is Rin´s death also by "Plot no Jutsu"(unless it is of course some treachery by Madara that causes her death). Maybe the Manga is getting better again and we doubters are all just bitter because of the sheer amount of disappointment in the last 100-200 chapters or so. Hmm what do you mean Rin's death is plot not jutsu unless Madara sets it up? My take on things is that witnessing Rin's death is the impetus for Obito becoming the villain he is now, whether Madara set it up or not. If that didn't happen, then either Madara would have had to find another way to convince Obito, or Obito simply would't be a part of the story.
I mean Plot no Jutsu in the sense that it will probably be very stupid if not some evil setup by Madara.
Think about it this way: Either its part of a plan to turn Obito evil, or it will probably be a dangerous situation with a very specific level of danger. Exactly so dangerous that Rin will die and no one will be able to rescue her. But not so dangerous that anyone else(that is plot relevant) will be in danger or keep any major injuries.
Considering she is a ninja of no real significance(so regular assassination can be ruled out), Kakashi is a jounin at this point, her teacher is the f*ing hokage and Obito just turned into spiderman with tree powers who can travel through the ground, and all these people will try their best to not let her die....
That´s not easy to make it not look very deliberate.
Something fast sudden can be ruled out, as Zetsu has time to warn Obito about the situation.
So yeah, my money is that Madara will pull an Aizen and will be responsible for this one, too.
For the record, Madara is already responsible or indirectly responsible for:
-Nagato getting Rinnegan
-Kyuubi attack when Naruto was born
-Founding of Akatsuki/Moon eye plan
-Zetsu´s existence/Obito´s survival
-By extension every major action of Akatsuki as part of the plan he told ObiTobi, including the Uchiha Massacre
That´s most major events pre-timeskip and around *everything* post-timeskip that´s not related to Sasuke/Orochimaru.
Bonus Aizen points if Madara points out that he planned all these things exactly like that.
PS: Don´t forget that Madara was just part of the backgroundstory until Tobi claimed to be Madara and then returned to be background after Tobi confessed to not actually be Madara. So the major villain was introduced like 20 chapters ago.
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Personally im more interested how well Kishimoto connects Madara superplot with Orochimaru's plot in Part 1. This is more significant for Naruto as a work in whole. I hope Kishi won't dissapoint.
I always prefered Orochimaru as a villain he was much more honest down to earth guy, he wants this because he wants to be immortal or he wants to know everything, like every human being to some extent. Madara wants to build a Naruto Matrix.
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On September 28 2012 17:30 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 14:50 Courthead wrote:On September 28 2012 07:28 Mataza wrote:On September 28 2012 06:10 Courthead wrote:On September 28 2012 05:57 Hyperbola wrote:
Inb4 Rin's death is set up and Naruto converts Obito to the light side through plot magic. i believe its called "talk no jutsu" Likewise is Rin´s death also by "Plot no Jutsu"(unless it is of course some treachery by Madara that causes her death). Maybe the Manga is getting better again and we doubters are all just bitter because of the sheer amount of disappointment in the last 100-200 chapters or so. Hmm what do you mean Rin's death is plot not jutsu unless Madara sets it up? My take on things is that witnessing Rin's death is the impetus for Obito becoming the villain he is now, whether Madara set it up or not. If that didn't happen, then either Madara would have had to find another way to convince Obito, or Obito simply would't be a part of the story. I mean Plot no Jutsu in the sense that it will probably be very stupid if not some evil setup by Madara. Think about it this way: Either its part of a plan to turn Obito evil, or it will probably be a dangerous situation with a very specific level of danger. Exactly so dangerous that Rin will die and no one will be able to rescue her. But not so dangerous that anyone else(that is plot relevant) will be in danger or keep any major injuries. Considering she is a ninja of no real significance(so regular assassination can be ruled out), Kakashi is a jounin at this point, her teacher is the f*ing hokage and Obito just turned into spiderman with tree powers who can travel through the ground, and all these people will try their best to not let her die.... That´s not easy to make it not look very deliberate. Something fast sudden can be ruled out, as Zetsu has time to warn Obito about the situation. So yeah, my money is that Madara will pull an Aizen and will be responsible for this one, too. For the record, Madara is already responsible or indirectly responsible for: -Nagato getting Rinnegan -Kyuubi attack when Naruto was born -Founding of Akatsuki/Moon eye plan -Zetsu´s existence/Obito´s survival -By extension every major action of Akatsuki as part of the plan he told ObiTobi, including the Uchiha Massacre That´s most major events pre-timeskip and around *everything* post-timeskip that´s not related to Sasuke/Orochimaru. Bonus Aizen points if Madara points out that he planned all these things exactly like that. PS: Don´t forget that Madara was just part of the backgroundstory until Tobi claimed to be Madara and then returned to be background after Tobi confessed to not actually be Madara. So the major villain was introduced like 20 chapters ago.
except her teacher is nowhere near, Kakashi is still mastering the Sharingan and is still one person
Madara was not at all responsible for the Uchiha massacre, he had nothing to do with it except Itachi coincidently had tobi help Madara was already dead by then you cannot say Madara was responsible for every single actian took by Tobi, the Akatsuki or anyone related to them
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what I'll love to find out is how Madara will die
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That´s why I said indirectly.
If Obito wouldn´t turn evil by himself, but had to be turned evil by Madara, then without Madaras interference Itachi would have a hard time finding someone to help him.
And still, it is obvious at this point that Madara had a plan with Obito. A plan that includes Madaras resurrection and the Moon Eye thing.
The moon eye thing requires all 9 tailed beasts to be captured. And capturing the beasts is so far the only goal Akatsuki ever had. Without that plan Akatsuki would probably never have existed.
Akatsukis motives were always vague and basically come down to "our leader has some world domination plan" which is the same fucking plan Madara told Obito.
I honestly can´t think of any bad guys except Oro/Sasuke and Akatsuki. And Akatsukis background is all coming down to Tobi and Tobi got it from Madara.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Yeah, it has to be something drastic that turns Obito evil. Like Rin getting raped to death by a dozen Rogue Ninjas with Kakashi hiding behind a tree, watching and masturbating (and having Obito's Sharingan activated).
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On September 29 2012 07:26 Fenrax wrote:
Yeah, it has to be something drastic that turns Obito evil. Like Rin getting raped to death by a dozen Rogue Ninjas with Kakashi hiding behind a tree, watching and masturbating (and having Obito's Sharingan activated).
not sure if I'm supposed to consider this hilarious or creepy but I'll stick with hilarious.
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On September 29 2012 07:29 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:26 Fenrax wrote:
Yeah, it has to be something drastic that turns Obito evil. Like Rin getting raped to death by a dozen Rogue Ninjas with Kakashi hiding behind a tree, watching and masturbating (and having Obito's Sharingan activated). not sure if I'm supposed to consider this hilarious or creepy but I'll stick with hilarious.
Let's go for creepious.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 02:39 Mataza wrote:
That´s why I said indirectly.
If Obito wouldn´t turn evil by himself, but had to be turned evil by Madara, then without Madaras interference Itachi would have a hard time finding someone to help him.
And still, it is obvious at this point that Madara had a plan with Obito. A plan that includes Madaras resurrection and the Moon Eye thing.
The moon eye thing requires all 9 tailed beasts to be captured. And capturing the beasts is so far the only goal Akatsuki ever had. Without that plan Akatsuki would probably never have existed.
Akatsukis motives were always vague and basically come down to "our leader has some world domination plan" which is the same fucking plan Madara told Obito.
I honestly can´t think of any bad guys except Oro/Sasuke and Akatsuki. And Akatsukis background is all coming down to Tobi and Tobi got it from Madara.
On September 29 2012 02:39 Mataza wrote:
The moon eye thing requires all 9 tailed beasts to be captured. And capturing the beasts is so far the only goal Akatsuki ever had. Without that plan Akatsuki would probably never have existed.
Not quite true, The main goal of Akatsuki was indeed the tailed beasts but they were guns for hire the majority of the time. Their interactions with naruto and friends was primarily about the bijuu but it wasn't their sole mission.
On September 29 2012 02:39 Mataza wrote:
I honestly can´t think of any bad guys except Oro/Sasuke and Akatsuki. And Akatsukis background is all coming down to Tobi and Tobi got it from Madara.
The entire mist village was seen to be somewhat of an enemy, and until the joining of the sand village and the fire village all 5 countries were at ends. It's true that Akatsuki and Orochimaru were a focal point but still.
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On September 29 2012 02:39 Mataza wrote:
That´s why I said indirectly.
If Obito wouldn´t turn evil by himself, but had to be turned evil by Madara, then without Madaras interference Itachi would have a hard time finding someone to help him.
And still, it is obvious at this point that Madara had a plan with Obito. A plan that includes Madaras resurrection and the Moon Eye thing.
The moon eye thing requires all 9 tailed beasts to be captured. And capturing the beasts is so far the only goal Akatsuki ever had. Without that plan Akatsuki would probably never have existed.
Akatsukis motives were always vague and basically come down to "our leader has some world domination plan" which is the same fucking plan Madara told Obito.
I honestly can´t think of any bad guys except Oro/Sasuke and Akatsuki. And Akatsukis background is all coming down to Tobi and Tobi got it from Madara.
obviously the problem is with the So6P mother
if she hadnt given birth to him, then he never would have ahd kids, so the Uchiha clan never would ahve existed so Madara would never have been born, so he never would have created this plan
also your completely forgetting that Pain created Akatsuki, Akatsuki is basically the rebel group in the rain country even without Obitos plan Nagato would still have gone after the tailed beasts
theres only so far you can blame something on someone indirectly, and your stretching way too far with Madara hes at fault for making Obito emo and having him do the moons eye plan, hes not at fault for what Nagato or akastuki or sasuke or itachi did only the direct actions of Obito
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What if it is actually Rin's death that puts Obito into shock and ends up with him in a comatosed blank state. Basically he is, for lack of a better word, kind of brain dead. But since he is "fused" with the Mokuton things/being/android, they end up being the master of the body and harmonize with the brain.
Eventually, because Obito is basically defenseless, his mind is actually warped by this fusion or during the span of time that the Android is basically in control of him (which would explain his childish antics/behaviour shown at the start of his introduction in Akatsuki).
Madara need not lift a finger to "mind control" him as the androids were basically his allies or in the same "wavelength" with Madara to obtain "peace" or a form thereof that he was after.
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On September 29 2012 15:15 17Sphynx17 wrote:
What if it is actually Rin's death that puts Obito into shock and ends up with him in a comatosed blank state. Basically he is, for lack of a better word, kind of brain dead. But since he is "fused" with the Mokuton things/being/android, they end up being the master of the body and harmonize with the brain.
Eventually, because Obito is basically defenseless, his mind is actually warped by this fusion or during the span of time that the Android is basically in control of him (which would explain his childish antics/behaviour shown at the start of his introduction in Akatsuki).
Madara need not lift a finger to "mind control" him as the androids were basically his allies or in the same "wavelength" with Madara to obtain "peace" or a form thereof that he was after.
that is way unnesecarily complicated
Tobi acted childish because Obito is childish
Obito went insane because Rin died and Madara probably helps push him along
Obito never tried to rez Rin because Nagato never got good enough at the technique to bring back people who died in the past, and even if it was possible he was insane enough to think that "even if i do bring her back the world will jsut kill her again so i should do the moons eye so i can live with her forever"
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Maybe when Obito said that the jutzu that Nagato used to revive people was "meant for me" he meant for rin? Somewhat doubt that though because it seems it has a limit on how long they have been dead.
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On September 29 2012 15:26 Slaughter wrote:
Maybe when Obito said that the jutzu that Nagato used to revive people was "meant for me" he meant for rin? Somewhat doubt that though because it seems it has a limit on how long they have been dead.
Madara obviously thought that limit could be exceeded
besides Nagatos techniques are obviously a few leagues below the Sage who fought the 10 tails one on one and won, Nagatos technique couldnt even contain 8 tailed Naruto
wonder how fucked everyone would be if Orochimaru managed to get some of his DNA...
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On September 29 2012 15:28 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 15:26 Slaughter wrote:
Maybe when Obito said that the jutzu that Nagato used to revive people was "meant for me" he meant for rin? Somewhat doubt that though because it seems it has a limit on how long they have been dead. Madara obviously thought that limit could be exceeded besides Nagatos techniques are obviously a few leagues below the Sage who fought the 10 tails one on one and won, Nagatos technique couldnt even contain 8 tailed Naruto wonder how fucked everyone would be if Orochimaru managed to get some of his DNA...
You have to remember that Nagato was like wasted away by the time he fought Naruto. He was holding out vs a powered up Naruto, the 8 tails AND Itachi. all while he wasn't incontrol of himself and he didn't want to fight anyway after he was revived. Still I concede that he isn't no sage of the 6 paths but he was powerful.
Interesting question. Why did Obito say "he was saving that for me" when he just took the eyes after? I guess Obitio doesn't have the mastery of the Rinnegan that Nagato had?
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On September 29 2012 16:18 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 15:28 Forikorder wrote:On September 29 2012 15:26 Slaughter wrote:
Maybe when Obito said that the jutzu that Nagato used to revive people was "meant for me" he meant for rin? Somewhat doubt that though because it seems it has a limit on how long they have been dead. Madara obviously thought that limit could be exceeded besides Nagatos techniques are obviously a few leagues below the Sage who fought the 10 tails one on one and won, Nagatos technique couldnt even contain 8 tailed Naruto wonder how fucked everyone would be if Orochimaru managed to get some of his DNA... You have to remember that Nagato was like wasted away by the time he fought Naruto. He was holding out vs a powered up Naruto, the 8 tails AND Itachi. all while he wasn't incontrol of himself and he didn't want to fight anyway after he was revived. Still I concede that he isn't no sage of the 6 paths but he was powerful. Interesting question. Why did Obito say "he was saving that for me" when he just took the eyes after? I guess Obitio doesn't have the mastery of the Rinnegan that Nagato had?
Nagato was at full power when he fought those 3 aside from his lack of mobility, the jutsus he used int aht fight was the maiximum amount of power he was capable of using at his prime
which chapter did he say that?
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Something i still dont understand is that it appears to be an artificial body for obitos right side because it was crushed or whatever, but he has his sharingan in that side of his body. Can someone explain was it just part of his right side that was crushed or what?
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So next chapter we get to see how Rin dies? I guess that'll be interesting...maybe.
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On September 30 2012 02:25 shark. wrote:
Something i still dont understand is that it appears to be an artificial body for obitos right side because it was crushed or whatever, but he has his sharingan in that side of his body. Can someone explain was it just part of his right side that was crushed or what?
it was jsut his right side from the neck down
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EPT
