EPTDragon Ball Super Discussion - Page 178
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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing Dragon Ball Super. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If a chapter or an episode has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has been released or a chapter/episode that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread without spoilers. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45090 Posts
On February 15 2018 01:18 LegalLord wrote: Freeza's power-up was extraordinarily stupid but now that it's canon we just have to roll with it. What unreal feats of strength has 17 honestly shown? I haven't seen any. The only thing I can think of is the recent fist-to-fist dialogue scene with Jiren, but considering how they were talking and Jiren wasn't really showing off a powered up attempt to punch *through* 17, I can buy that. I think 17's unlimited stamina and high intelligence have been presented fairly, and I'm happy that someone with a smart game plan got so far instead of only rewarding physical strength. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On February 15 2018 03:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The only thing I can think of is the recent fist-to-fist dialogue scene with Jiren, but considering how they were talking and Jiren wasn't really showing off a powered up attempt to punch *through* 17, I can buy that. I think 17's unlimited stamina and high intelligence have been presented fairly, and I'm happy that someone with a smart game plan got so far instead of only rewarding physical strength. Fist-to-fist with Jiren, yeah. But way more notably the fact that 17 baited Jiren into doing a rage attack, which 17 then managed to protect *both* Goku and Vegeta from at the same time. 17 is clearly intended to be much stronger than Frieza at this point. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On February 15 2018 03:14 Mohdoo wrote: Fist-to-fist with Jiren, yeah. But way more notably the fact that 17 baited Jiren into doing a rage attack, which 17 then managed to protect *both* Goku and Vegeta from at the same time. 17 is clearly intended to be much stronger than Frieza at this point. i mean smart is only comparable because goku and vegeta are idiots who have like zero strategy all they do is go straight into the fight (goku has lost all his childhood antics/tatics and vegeta shows none of the cunning from the frezia saga) I mean remember how we were hyped up to picolo and gohan working out a plan...that turned out to be nothing but self sacrifice and picolo has always been protrayed as a smart fighter. No one in the entire tournament has made a logical plan they all try to fight u7 for some dumb reason | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On February 15 2018 15:12 Shock710 wrote: i mean smart is only comparable because goku and vegeta are idiots who have like zero strategy all they do is go straight into the fight (goku has lost all his childhood antics/tatics and vegeta shows none of the cunning from the frezia saga) I mean remember how we were hyped up to picolo and gohan working out a plan...that turned out to be nothing but self sacrifice and picolo has always been protrayed as a smart fighter. No one in the entire tournament has made a logical plan they all try to fight u7 for some dumb reason and U7 in turn gladly fights everyone depleting their stamina. They made them go so all out so often that the regaining enough strength to fight became a pure meme. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 15 2018 00:06 Shock710 wrote: I would be so happy with a vegeta win, especially considering his promise to the sayians of u6, he needs this win but as soon as he turned ssb2 and not ultra instinct i knew he wasnt gonna win (tho im irrationally hoping for fusion) no doubt goku will win because i cant see jiren brining back the other universes after his comment about toppo he only cares about his own strength and the people he cares about ( i dont think even think he considers the other pride troopers to be his friends) Exactly. In terms of storytelling, what always held Vegeta back was that he only ever fought for himself. the DBZ universe very clearly runs on the principle that fighting for others is the route to true strength. Goku is a crazy blood knight (especially in the Japanese), but he loves fighting, and he wants to share that with everybody. Training is his favourite thing, and he prefers to train with people. In his battles, when he's only fighting for himself he ALWAYS loses, it's ONLY when he has to fight for someone else that he finally wins. It's actually a testament to how obscenely powerful Vegeta is that he gets as powerful as he does by training alone. Goku is consistently being trained by gods, supreme martial arts masters, aliens, and what have you. Vegeta operates on 'fuck that and fuck you, Imma do it alone'. BUT The universal logic holds him back. He can never quite catch up, because his pride tells him he has to do it alone. Until now. He finally lets his pride slip and begs someone else to teach him (Whis/Beerus), he tries to pass his teachings on to someone else (in his own inimitable style), and now he's finally fighting for other people more than he is for himself. If I were doing it, this would be the time. It's even presaged when they state outright he went above Goku while fighting Beerus after Beerus hit Bulma. I'd have him have his final moment of clarity when Jiren OPPLZNERFs Goku somehow, and to the amazement of everyone beat the unbeatable guy. And I'd probably end the series with Goku grinning and asking to train together, and Vegeta hesitating, then saying he wants to see if Goku can catch him, finally indicating that he's part of the crew instead of the eternal outsider. And if there was more DBZ, use him as a proper deuteragonist, with him and Goku swapping in and out of big fights, and probably trading who gets the final win, or it being a dual thing (wouldn't you love to see a villain holding their own against a mega kamehameha, Goku starts panicking, only for Vegeta to appear beside him and fire a Final Flash as well, and that be the finishing blow?). But I'm not, and it won't be. Vegeta's moment was pretty clearly when he downed Toppo. Jiren is pretty much the first 'villain' who breaks the universal rule, since he's entirely selfish and is just more powerful than everyone else. But I think that's part of why he doesn't work. The other major villains work because they're different plays on power and its acquisition/usage. Frieza is born powerful and never had to work for it, and uses it selfishly (note he again follows the universal logic: when he sets out to develop his power and earn it, and starts training WITH someone, he skyrockets and unlocks power he'd never imagined). Cell was given power and has no real power of his own, save what he was given or steals, and uses it instinctually, more or less (he's still driven by a vague need to kill Goku), and Buu is just a psychopath. None of them earn their power like either Goku or Vegeta do (and when Vegeta was a proper villain he was presented much like Frieza; cold, arrogant and entitled). And so on and so forth. But Jiren? He's just sort of... there. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9006 Posts
Since DBS, Vegeta has constantly given Goku roundabout props when it comes to strength. Vegeta is the better fighter, Goku is just stronger and pushes himself to new heights because plot and he loves the challenge. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
What if the actual reason Goten and Trunks were left behind on Earth was so that they can advance and age while everyone else is gone? Hmmm hmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmm I have way too much fun theorycrafting DBS lol On February 16 2018 12:53 LegalLord wrote: Kai actually covered it very faithfully. 2:30 on if you don't care for the flashbacks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlFk6WeDHw And now here I am, tearing up at work. Thank you so much for posting ;___; | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On February 17 2018 07:06 TMG26 wrote: Do any of you guys lnow a place with propper scans of Dragonball manga? The only good scans I find don't cover the Z part yet. Ill send you a link, but as far as i know it only reaches up to cell i have yet to see the buu saga online and ive never even seen it in real life (i own parts of the japanese cell saga but i cant even read them lol...plus no idea where i put them) Anyway hope this helps | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13990 Posts
On February 16 2018 13:15 BigFan wrote: hmm don't ever remember Vegeta saying he was #1 in the original dbz. Was that added in or am I just forgetting? lol. I remember him saying "you're better than me Kakarot, you're the best" | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On February 17 2018 14:38 Cricketer12 wrote: I remember him saying "you're better than me Kakarot, you're the best" imo that sounds better than the kai dub | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45090 Posts
On February 17 2018 14:38 Cricketer12 wrote: I remember him saying "you're better than me Kakarot, you're the best" Yup, he said that verbatim (end of this clip)... the speech was crystal clear imo. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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