EPTOn April 17 2015 20:26 KadaverBB wrote:
There was no humor in my statement, I hate into Darkness with every fiber of my being.
There was no humor in my statement, I hate into Darkness with every fiber of my being.
oh man, you're really trying now.
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 74
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51104 Posts
oh man, you're really trying now. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18707 Posts
Luke Skywalker will forever remain my most favourite character of all time! | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On April 17 2015 10:21 KadaverBB wrote: This movie is probably going to suck since JJ is the master of ruining things. I will never forgive him for what he did to Star Trek  What he did for Star Trek? You mean single-handedly reviving a franchise on life-support? Helming the two highest grossing Trek movies ever? Setting up a whole new fresh environment where new younger stars can thrive and shine without having to deal with baggage from the original cast? We can only pray that this is what he will do with SW. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 18 2015 13:17 LegalLord wrote: I really don't understand why people didn't like Into Darkness. I thought it was a great movie (better than the first for sure) and I really didn't ever see why people had the strong adverse reaction to it that they did. Because it was terrible and phoned in. The first one understood that what's great about Star Trek is adventure, wonderment, optimism and silliness. Into Darkness was humorless, pretentiously didactic (war bad!), cynical, and the emotional weighting was all off (big deal that character almost dies, but obviously can't; little deal that the entire fucking city gets demolished 9/11 style). | ||
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
On April 18 2015 13:50 Yoav wrote: Because it was terrible and phoned in. The first one understood that what's great about Star Trek is adventure, wonderment, optimism and silliness. Into Darkness was humorless, pretentiously didactic (war bad!), cynical, and the emotional weighting was all off (big deal that character almost dies, but obviously can't; little deal that the entire fucking city gets demolished 9/11 style). I can understand how it wasn't true Trek, but shit I loved the hell out of it. I did always feel that JJ's style of directing Space Fantasy always had a Star Wars touch to it, and I'm glad Disney realized he was the perfect guy to direct the new sequels. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On April 18 2015 13:50 Yoav wrote: Because it was terrible and phoned in. The first one understood that what's great about Star Trek is adventure, wonderment, optimism and silliness. Into Darkness was humorless, pretentiously didactic (war bad!), cynical, and the emotional weighting was all off (big deal that character almost dies, but obviously can't; little deal that the entire fucking city gets demolished 9/11 style). Sooooo it was like every other Star Trek movie? Not that every other star trek movie is phoned in, but you can cut and paste that description to describe just about every Star Trek movie. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
I enjoyed Into Darkness, though. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 18 2015 23:28 ThomasjServo wrote: Sooooo it was like every other Star Trek movie? Not that every other star trek movie is phoned in, but you can cut and paste that description to describe just about every Star Trek movie. Not really. A few kinda match... Nemesis was indeed depressing and off-note, but even it wasn't so cravenly cynical. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the Star Trek movies were terrible, but generally in other ways. 1. TMP: Terrible pacing, felt like a bloated episode. 2. WoK: Considered the best for a long time, but probably now superceded by Star Trek. 3. SfS: Whiny, incoherent, though partially saved at the last minute by an epic climax. 4. tVH: Still the funniest Star Trek, and intentionally so. Goofy and wonderful. 5. lol 6. tUC: A thrilling movie with a great ending, if a little preachy and with some weaker portions. 7. Generations: Less screaming, in-your-face badness, and more just being lame. 8. FC: One of the best, mixing great action with the creepy-scariness of the Borg while being surprisingly funny. 9. Insurrection: Meh. Not bad for an odd-numbered Trek, but still meh. 10. Nemesis: Combo-breaker! Terrible even-numbered movie. A good case study in why video-game plots are different from movie plots. 11. Star Trek 12. Into Darkness | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On April 20 2015 09:13 Yoav wrote: Not really. A few kinda match... Nemesis was indeed depressing and off-note, but even it wasn't so cravenly cynical. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the Star Trek movies were terrible, but generally in other ways. 1. TMP: Terrible pacing, felt like a bloated episode. 2. WoK: Considered the best for a long time, but probably now superceded by Star Trek. 3. SfS: Whiny, incoherent, though partially saved at the last minute by an epic climax. 4. tVH: Still the funniest Star Trek, and intentionally so. Goofy and wonderful. 5. lol 6. tUC: A thrilling movie with a great ending, if a little preachy and with some weaker portions. 7. Generations: Less screaming, in-your-face badness, and more just being lame. 8. FC: One of the best, mixing great action with the creepy-scariness of the Borg while being surprisingly funny. 9. Insurrection: Meh. Not bad for an odd-numbered Trek, but still meh. 10. Nemesis: Combo-breaker! Terrible even-numbered movie. A good case study in why video-game plots are different from movie plots. 11. Star Trek 12. Into Darkness It was said best by Simon Pegg well before the reboot was a twinkle in JJ's eyes: I mean, it's a fact, sure as day follows night, sure as eggs is eggs, sure as every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is shit. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Still one of my favorite moments from South Park. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On April 21 2015 00:12 Serejai wrote: Harrison Ford was pissed at the end of Star Wars because he wanted Han Solo to die during the movie, and George wouldn't let it happen. He's probably so happy in the new movies because he's going to die. I was actually thinking that whatever the deal was 30+ years ago, he's older and wiser now, and able to embrace something he once took for granted. This trailer also reminded me a lot of WoW's WotLK cinematic, with the father talking to his child about their legacy and hopes for the future. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 20 2015 09:13 Yoav wrote: Not really. A few kinda match... Nemesis was indeed depressing and off-note, but even it wasn't so cravenly cynical. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the Star Trek movies were terrible, but generally in other ways. 1. TMP: Terrible pacing, felt like a bloated episode. 2. WoK: Considered the best for a long time, but probably now superceded by Star Trek. 3. SfS: Whiny, incoherent, though partially saved at the last minute by an epic climax. 4. tVH: Still the funniest Star Trek, and intentionally so. Goofy and wonderful. 5. lol 6. tUC: A thrilling movie with a great ending, if a little preachy and with some weaker portions. 7. Generations: Less screaming, in-your-face badness, and more just being lame. 8. FC: One of the best, mixing great action with the creepy-scariness of the Borg while being surprisingly funny. 9. Insurrection: Meh. Not bad for an odd-numbered Trek, but still meh. 10. Nemesis: Combo-breaker! Terrible even-numbered movie. A good case study in why video-game plots are different from movie plots. 11. Star Trek 12. Into Darkness I enjoyed ST:ID more than #11 and certainly more than WoK. WoK certainly had its charm, and I enjoyed watching it, but even if ST:ID was so bad as to butcher it (which it wasn't, it was a great movie with a well-considered moral basis), it wasn't as without fault as most ST fans like to admit. Khan's shortcomings in that movie were far more blatant and elementary (losing shields on the Defiant, failing to realize the time for repairs could have been in code, being baited into the nebula into an obvious trap by a half-hearted taunt, somehow having "two dimensional thinking" despite the fact that he would certainly be familiar with aircraft and submarines). Is this bad? No, it was a great movie that I enjoyed watching. But ST:ID is far more harshly criticized for far more subtle and less idiotic faults. All of the old ST movies feel more like TV specials than actual movies, so on top of that I'd say that Abrams made higher quality productions. In any case, it's quite unfair to hold STID against Abrams, especially when his story is admittedly much more Star Wars in feel than old-style Star Trek. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/ring-composition-chiasmus-hidden-artistry-star-wars-prequels/ What really sold me was how Attack of the Clones is basically Empire Strikes Back, told backwards. Colors and themes and everything. And of course, all the other points, but that's when the essay really clicked for me. Worth a read. And now I'm wondering where Episode 7 fits into this. Another ring? Will we see 7-12 be a reflection of 6-1, or will 7-9 form their own ring? I'm really interested to see if and how directors approach this task. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10154 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
I know some Trekkies, like Yoav and KBB have their issues with JJ's Star Treks, and they have their reasons which are valid I'm sure. Trekkies are nothing if not opinionated, but I am not hoping for something that matches the ground breaking, or awe inspiring feelings the original three evoked in me. It isn't going to happen, it is like falling in love for the first time in high school. You experience everything so intensely it seems impossible. All I want is a respectful continuation story wise, that is faithful to the spirit of the first three with a story that isn't completely idiotic. If I have that, I'll be happy to shell out whatever I have to to see the movie, not in 3D. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 23 2015 06:22 ThomasjServo wrote: I think the Star Trek franchise on the whole through a very particular lens, especially given the vast majority of people on here were either not born or learning their ABCs when TNG and the series that followed were on the air. Objectively, the closest thing to a commercially appealing movie from the non-Trekkie perspective, pre JJ was Wrath of Khan. Even that has a line for me which I thought was lame which you'll find below, and it is the lynchpin to the final sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbTUTNenvCY I know some Trekkies, like Yoav and KBB have their issues with JJ's Star Treks, and they have their reasons which are valid I'm sure. Trekkies are nothing if not opinionated, but I am not hoping for something that matches the ground breaking, or awe inspiring feelings the original three evoked in me. It isn't going to happen, it is like falling in love for the first time in high school. You experience everything so intensely it seems impossible. All I want is a respectful continuation story wise, that is faithful to the spirit of the first three with a story that isn't completely idiotic. If I have that, I'll be happy to shell out whatever I have to to see the movie, not in 3D. To be clear, I think Star Trek (11) was the best one so far, so I have nothing against JJ. Hell, I'm a Star Wars fan above all (well, as far as fandoms go, excluding religions, countries and women) and the JJ movies were heavily Star Wars influenced. Cool. It was just Into Darkness that sucked. These are not senselessly contrarian opinions (I think actually my assessment of both movies is pretty critically mainstream). And yeah, I'm agreed with you on what I want for Star Wars 7. I get that there are different fandoms for different ages... though I quibble with your numbers: Star Trek Voyager and DS9 were both still on the air when Starcraft was released, so I'm guessing there are plenty of people here who were around to see them on air (myself among them). But yeah, I wish no ill-will to the kids who loved the prequels or Clone Wars or Rebels. They're glorified fanfic in my book, but there's a place for that. This will be too. I kinda just hope it's fun fanfic so I can limit the number of Star Wars movies I'm going to have to hide the existence of from my kids. | ||
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