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On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote:What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion.  Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions.
Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH.
I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
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On September 14 2012 04:02 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote:What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling. I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions. Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH. I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
Wait I got two people mixed up, but really let's just stop all the useless bickering and banter about OMGZORZ THIS ISNT THE BEST ANIMIE
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I don't understand the heavy arguing about whatever the fuck is up with NGE. Either you know what's up and you like that kind of thing, or you don't know what's up and/or don't like it.
But what can definitely be said is that you can count the anime, which are on par with LoGH on one hand of a person who has lost 2 fingers already. Haven't seen or heard of it? The fuck, watch it.
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Simplified. I actually liked the jacking off scene as it was daring and showed how a mentally unstable "virgin" kid acted like i think many would do in his situation. Is it messed up? Yeah, but that's the premise of the series. People in the series are somewhat broken (already been explained) and live under constant unnatural pressure.
That was a question, though. Both events happened, I was just wondering which people liked more, as both are great anime moments that few anime have ever been able to compete with.
You hate him as a character, your opinion and it seems to not be shared with alot of people here. You call all characters horrible. You then call them autist, sluts, and sociopaths (this is hyperbole as most of them have reasons for what they do).
This is hyperbole. If you go back and look at this topic, most of the posts in here are either people who are like "Oh, Evanelion, I watched that once" or "Evangelion sucks". Therefore, plenty of people in this thread share my opinion. Kaal, Zergneedsfood, KazeHydra, to name a few. Additionally, I don't see what this has to do with anything. Point?
Additionally, virtually every character in the show can be accurately classified into one of those types. Just because a sociopath has reasons for being a nut, doesn't make them not a nut. Is Shinji autistic? Yes. Is Misato a slut? Yes. Is Gendo a sociopath? Yes. etc.
So your opinion is that you can't stand the characters and you don't get pleasure watching the series. Why are you discussing something you dislike? I don't spend time in a Breaking Bad thread just because i dislike the show characters. It's a waste of time. Again with the autist/sociopath bullshit.
That is a cool opinion you have there.
You don't care because you see the characters as terrible human beings. I don't as i see them as flawed persons doing stuff that both suits their characters and makes for a good movie/series.
Where is the hyperbole? I didn't ask you to tell me that I dislike the show, or why I dislike the show. I already know why.
Your argument can mostly be condensed to:
"I hate the characters which means i hate the show."
Okay?
You can't really present a more biased and personal opinion which means everyone else that don't agree couldn't give a shit. If you presented plot holes or inconsistencies i might be interested. Now you present your personal opinion on the characters, something i, and many others, couldn't give 2 shits about.
At this point, you aren't even talking about the show. You are only talking about my opinion on the show. If you seriously don't give 2 shits about my opinion on the show, then why do you keep posting about my opinion on the show?
I don't understand the heavy arguing about whatever the fuck is up with NGE. Either you know what's up and you like that kind of thing, or you don't know what's up and/or don't like it.
Why can't someone know whats up, and still not like it?
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On September 14 2012 04:02 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote:What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling. I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions. Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH. I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
Ummmm wow. The amount of anime you listed went way over my head. I wouldn't call people like Mutta and the cast from Kokoro connect "Realistic".... To be honest animes and general tend to not portray anyone realistic at all. What Eva does do is paint a realistic form of depression i guess. Watch shit like breaking bad with u want a "Realistic portrayal of ppl"
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I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
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On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
;; i'm currently working on that right now!
by the end of today i should have the secondary post completed with the supplementary background and explantions!
in the meantime have some mindfuck!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e6XZ5.jpg)
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On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
+ Show Spoiler +If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
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On September 14 2012 04:32 Tabbris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:02 KazeHydra wrote:On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote:What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling. I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions. Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH. I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time. Ummmm wow. The amount of anime you listed went way over my head. I wouldn't call people like Mutta and the cast from Kokoro connect "Realistic".... To be honest animes and general tend to not portray anyone realistic at all. What Eva does do is paint a realistic form of depression i guess. Watch shit like breaking bad with u want a "Realistic portrayal of ppl"
It's true that anime tends not to portray characters as realistic; however, the thing is it's very hard to objectively say this because the vast majority of anime is in unrealistic settings. How people will really react to these situations can only be hypothesized and the reactions will be different for every kind of person. Don't know why you'd call a guy trying to fulfill his dream of becoming an astronaut unrealistic. Given the situation, I think Kokoro Connect portrays the characters very realistically given their different personalities, backgrounds, and outlooks on life. Throw a kid with lots of issues into a robot and Shinji's reaction is indeed realistic. Throw an adult who has military experience in it and you'll get something very different but equally realistic. Again, no one is arguing Eva characters are not realistic; however, many of us do not consider it good just because it is realistic. BTW, I'm not the one asking for realistic people; I explicitly said I want characters that are fun to watch. Not sure if you meant me or not.
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On September 14 2012 04:40 CidO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are? + Show Spoiler +If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
your ganna have to wait realisticly 6-8 months for the blue-ray release....
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On September 14 2012 04:40 CidO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are? + Show Spoiler +If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time....
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On September 14 2012 04:56 greenelve wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:40 CidO wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are? + Show Spoiler +If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks. Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time....
Then what about the fourth child(the spikey haired kid from Shiji's class? There's not much back story on him, and I don't believe he follows the "made with himself" criteria.
Just for reference, I have only seen the original series and I haven't watched the ending movies or the revival.
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On September 14 2012 05:03 Retgery wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:56 greenelve wrote:On September 14 2012 04:40 CidO wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are? + Show Spoiler +If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks. Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time.... Then what about the fourth child(the spikey haired kid from Shiji's class? There's not much back story on him, and I don't believe he follows the "made with himself" criteria. Just for reference, I have only seen the original series and I haven't watched the ending movies or the revival.
Well, it's either an attempt at mass production or some plot line that apparently was so well hidden I wouldn't have the slightest clue. I <3 reading about NGE though.
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favourite anime, marked my childhood.
its awesome
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On September 14 2012 04:38 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are? ;; i'm currently working on that right now! by the end of today i should have the secondary post completed with the supplementary background and explantions! in the meantime have some mindfuck! + Show Spoiler +
that's strangely hot O_o
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On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote:I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
On September 13 2012 08:14 Gamegene wrote:Original post: Shit I did not mean to click enter.
Explanations, Analysis, Background
3deep5u Under Construction!
The Seeds Of Life, The Tokyo-3 Geofront, Second Impact and the Dead Sea Scrolls + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2000 The GAINAX website wrote:
Giant Meteorite Hits Antarctica? (2000.09.13)
According to a P.U. Communications report, a gigantic explosion occurred in Antarctica on this date. The cause has yet to be announced, but experts believe that it was caused my a meteorite impact.
Earthquakes and tidal waves of extreme magnitude are occurring all over the world. We are already receiving reports of damage in parts of South Africa and Australia. The force of the explosion is estimated to be upward of 18 billion megatons of TNT. Antarctica itself has been almost entirely pulverized, and it is estimated that most of the ice will turn into vapor, which will condense into massive rainfall, which will in turn swamp coastal areas as sea level rises. Evacuation orders are in effect for all such regions around the world.
The preceding was a story from the world of Evangelion. Today is when Second Impact happened in series chronology. It is also the birthdate of Nagisa Kaworu. Note: The following information comes from a handbook given to the audiences during the original release of End Of Evangelion. It is considered canon.
4.6 billions years ago, deep in the milky way galaxy existed "The First Ancesteral Race", a group of alien beings who were practically omnipotent with their advanced technology. Their world faced with extinction, they accepted their fate, but decided to ensure that life would continue to exist in the universe. Placing the soul of one of their race into seven "Seeds Of Life", they scattered them to 7 inhabitable planets before their destruction. Each equipped with The Dead Sea Scrolls and a Lance Of Longinus, the Seeds Of Life would provide a primordial soup of life to the planets, and begin life. There were two kinds of Seeds, a Black Moon, and a White Moon. A "Fruit Of Life" White Moon would spawn Angels, strange and bizzare lifeforms to take over the planet and inhabit it. A "Fruit Of Knowledge" Black Moon would spawn intelligent beings, and ultimately lead to the life form forming civilization. The White Moon landed on Earth first in Antarctica, but for whatever reason a Black Moon landed as well before the White Moon could begin life on Earth. Sensing what was wrong, the White Moon became inactive to prevent two life forms from beginning at the same time, allowing us humans to emerge from the Black Moon (metaphorically speaking as evolution would have to take place over millions of years). Jump forward to the year 2000. Seele, a mysterious organization, discover the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Black Moon uncovered in Japan. The Dead Sea Scrolls were instructions on what the Seeds Of Life were and what they did. They also explain what would happen if two Seeds Of Life hapened to meet on the same planet. Discovering the White Moon in Antartica, Seele sends the Katsuragi Expedition, headed by Misato's father, to initiate Second Impact before Adam, the soul residing in the White Moon awakens. If Adam was able to reawaken, all Lillith (the soul residing in the Black Moon) based life would extinguish right down to the bacterial level. Using a human "donor" to initiate contact with Adam, they start Second Impact. In the aftermath of the damage, they were able to suspend Adam into an embryonic state, and delay the coming of the Angels. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OAnGz.jpg) The White Moon, along with Antarctica is destroyed. The Black Moon, the birthplace of humanity, is quickly taken up by Seele and their U.N. puppet government along with the truth of Second Impact, instead fabricating a story that a meteor hit the planet. On top of the Black Moon, Tokyo 3 is created, a fortress city designed to intercept the Angels that will be coming in 15 years for Adam, the father of the Angels and Lillith, the mother of humanity, in the depth of the Black Moon Geofront. The Angels + Show Spoiler +The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons). Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake. The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking). Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tDdrJ.jpg) Gehirn and Magi + Show Spoiler +With the backing of Seele, secret organization Gehirn is created, hidden as a U.N. Lab in the construction of Tokyo-3 and started with the original members of a Seele backed U.N. research group (the surviving members of the Katsuragi Expedition, including Ikari Gendo. It is tasked to start research and development on the Evangelion Series, the Magi supercomputer and plan the defenses for the coming of the Angels. Dr. Naoko Akagi, the mother of Ritsuko Akagi, is the brain behind the development and ultimately success of the Magi Supercomputer, and the first Evangelion. Magi is meant to be a bionic super computer, implanted with three seperate human personalities. Magi, named after the three wise men from the East, was created in order to act as an operation system for the Evangelion Series, and to give the series the capacity to hold personality. In the series, it is tasked with running the government of Japan (through majority rule between the three personalities), running NERV headquarters, and give NERV staff information, analysis and suggestions on the Evangelion Series and the Angels. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uOgKM.jpg) Soon after, future subcommander Fuyutsuki joins the organization, after revealing his knowledge of the true Second Impact. Ikari Yui, Shinji's mother and wife of Ikari Gendo, is seemingly killed and erased during a freak accident (that Shinji witnessed but has no recollection of when the series begins). Two successful Evangelion units are created: Unit 00 and Unit 01. The organization is reformed under a new name: NERV. Dr. Naoko Akagi commits suicide after killing Rei. The "Ultimate All-Purpose Humanoid Decisive Battle Weapon: Evangelion" Series + Show Spoiler +Evangelions are not robots. They're humans in the loosest sense of the word. Evangelions, with the exception of Evangelion Unit 01, are made from the remains of the Adam's Seed Of Life. Like Adam described as "the giant being of light", Evangelions share the same phsyical form of a human being and a unit "core". Featuring an A.T. Field, and a power equal to the Angels themselves, they are humanities only hope of defeating the Angels and initiating Third Impact. Unlike their White Moon counterparts however, the Evangelions originally did not have S2 engines, meaning that they are severely limited in operation time, and are forced to use a power cord before relying on internal power. Later in the series, Experimental Evangelion Unit 01 was able to ingest an S2 engine. The Mass Production Evas proudly featured them, allowing them to have the ability of flight (no longer being constrained by the cord). Evangelions are covered in binders, which also serves as armor, a way to control the Evangelion, and disguises the Evangelion series true inner workings: They have limbs, blood, a nervous system organ system, and even eyeballs (notably shown during the second episode, and during Asuka's defeat at the hands of the Mass Production Evas. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NusLE.png) Like the Angels, Evangelions have regeneration abilities, although it's implied that it takes long periods of time to repair extensive damage (think of Angels when they recover from an N2 bomb). Damage sustained by the Evangelion units can result in massive repair costs to replace or salvage the armored binders, and give the Evangelion enough bio mass to help accelerate the regeneration. The system that allows electronic personality for the Magi Computer is incorporated into all Evangelions, allowing each of the pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul Seele and Special Agency NERV+ Show Spoiler +In the series, Seele is a council of twelve members, five of whom are shown in the beginning of the series. Chairman Keel Lorenz, the guy in the green suit and weird glasses, is the head of both the full council and the inner circle of 5. When the full council convenes, they project an image of large stone monoliths in a video conference (Keel is SEEL 01 SOUND ONLY).
SEELE, is essentially a group of old men who rule the world, as they directly control the U.N. (and all the countries within the U.N.) and NERV, having funding and backing both organizations.
After completing o it's goals of creating the MAGI, and first opperational Evangelion (Unit 00), Geherin was directly reorganized into NERV. NERV is a paramilitary special agency, tasked with defending mankind against the Angels, and prevent the Angels from starting a Third Impact.
Given authority under the U.N. (SEELE), NERV is a laregely independent organization, as only the Evangelion Series can stand up to the Angels, although they do coordinate with with other organizations such as the JSSDF (Japanese Strategic Special Self Defense Forces). Their main role in the defense against the Angels, is to support the Evangelion Units, provide logistics and technical support to the pilots. They have branches all over the world (Asuka and Kaji were transfered from the Branch in Germany), and like the main branch in Tokyo-3, they host their own Magi supercomputers and have the infrastructure to support and build Evangelions, which is where the Production and Mass production models were created.
NERV is a semi public organization, being under the U.N., however their main purpose (to defeat the Angels and support the Evangelion series) is a top secret from the general public. NERV has thousands of intelligence agents, who track down former NERV employees, keep tabs on current, and eliminate all leaks. They have are also shown to have special privileges, and can override and give orders to local governments. They also regularly issue media black outs during Angel and Evangelion activity (though after a certain point, everyone in Tokyo-3 knows what's going on).
Ikari Gendo is the head of Special Agency NERV, and regularly butts heads with the SEELE organization. Because SEELE directly funds NERV, Gendo must work and show that NERV is accomplishing it's goals of completing it's secret agenda: The Human Instrumentality Project, otherwise NERV, and Gendo will be cut. Absolute Terror Field, The Lance Of Longinus + Show Spoiler +A.T. Field, also known as Absolute Terror Field, a barrier than can only be penetrated by another, is one of the primary sources of conflict for this show. Projected by the Angels and Evangelions, it renders conventional weapons useless against them (it took all the power in Japan to break through just one!). Although it is mainly a defensive tool, the Angels and occasionally the Evangelions, are shown using A.T. Fields offensively, by projecting them in a unique manner (The "Shadow" Angel inverted his A.T. Field, essentially creating a black hole.) N2 Mines, which stand for Non-Nuclear, have the power of a nuclear missile, but even they can only momentarily paralyze a unit protected by an A.T. Field. Evangelions are typically seen entering close combat with Angels, as it is the most effective way of dealing with an A.T. Field.
The only other way to negate this seemingly impenetrable forcefield is through the use of the Lance Of Longinus. The Lance Of Longinus, created by the First Artificial Race and sent to Earth in each of the Moons (Lillith's Lance was destroyed upon impact), is the most powerful weapon in the series. It is considered a godly weapon, able to completely piece through an A.T. Field without one of it's own, and wreaks massive amount of damage to either, which is why SEELE was very upset that the Lance was lost in orbit around the moon when the 22nd Angel Arael (the mind rape Angel). It is speculated that the Lance was included with the Black and White seeds, to offer a security measure for whatever beings seek to control their (The First Ancestral Race's) creations. LCL, Plugsuits, and Synchronization Rates + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o0DmI.jpg) "Were you expecting some cute girl? I apologize... it's just me Ikari Shinji..."LCL is an orange liquid, that floods the entry plug of an Evangelion unit. Because it is oxygenated, it allows for pilots to breathe while completely submerged, and once an electrical current is run through the LCL, it allows it to become as dense as air, allowing the pilots to see clearly. The solution allows for pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul. LCL is the primordial soup of life, where all life originated on Earth. Special Agency NERV obtains LCL from the blood of Lillith deep underground Centeral Dogma. With the Lance piercing her chest, Lillith bleeds LCL ("smells like blood"), and forms the lake of tang in central dogma. Plugsuits are skintight (mmf) spandex suits. that help reduce interference for the pilots, they are also capable of providing emergency medical aid, such as a defibrillator but have a limited amount of power. They are not required to pilot Eva, as Shinji has shown numerous times in the series, though it appears that the interface headsets (the things that Asuka always wears) are critical in synchronizing. They're also a major source of a lot of latex fetishes for the fans. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U82ML.jpg) "PERVERT!"A high synchronization rate is critical to piloting the Evangelion, which is why LCL, plugsuits, interface headsets and an astounding amount of testing is required to increase the pilot's ability to interface. Pilots control Evangelions through their thoughts, and are able to move Evangelion like a part of their body, only if they are able to maintain a synchronization rate over 10%. The higher it is, the less clumsy Evangelion becomes, which is crucial in aiming the various weapons and engaging in close combat with the Angels. However the downside is that the pilots receive information at a higher rate as well from the Evangelion unit, meaning they experience pain. and ultimately injuries the Eva units recieve if the synchronization rate is high enough (Asuka losing her eye for example... and then eventually Unit 02 being eaten). Why Are The Pilots All Children and Orphans?: Yui Ikari and The Secret Of The Evangelions
Where are their mothers? + Show Spoiler +Alas, the great question. Why send giant robots (biomechanical whatever) worth billions of dollars to do battle against giant alien invaders, and risking the local population and infrastructure, piloted by a bunch of kids? The simple half answer is that because the Angels only gave 15 years of notice, that's just the average age the pilots were, (since they had to be created into candiates, and in some cases created). The real answer is that you cannot be an Evangelion pilot without losing your mother. Every student in Shinji's class have been hand selected by the mysterious Marodoc Institute (an organization affiliated with SEELE and NERV), as candidates to be an EVA pilot. They all do not have a mother. The unit "core" of the Evangelion, is home to the soul of the pilot's mother, which is why (with the exception of Rei and Shinji), pilots cannot interface with different Eva units. Yui Ikari first completed the biomechanical theory, before the year of Second Impact. She theorized that personality and a person's "soul" could be transplanted like machinery. After the hell of Second Impact, the Gehirn Institute hires her to help complete her theory and materialize it in Eva. With the Magi system completed, the NERV now had a system to allow pilots to interface with a unit's soul, despite the Evangelion units being completely biological.. Yui Ikari willingly allowed herself to be assimilated into the Eva unit, to protect and watch over Shinji, and fulfill her goal of advancing humanity for the sake of children like her son. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m1uQq.png) This is why Unit 01 goes beserk 3 seperate times in the series. Shinji's mother is still alive inside Unit 01, and protects him at all costs. Unfortunately Asuka's mother had a much more tragic case. Instead of assimilated her entire personality and body into Unit 02, only the love and caring for Asuka was assimilated (although it accomplished the same results).
There you go!
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I must formally apologise for sentenal's behaviour, we don't usually let him out too far from the ADT thread
He is impossible to argue/reason with so don't bother.
I understand he is being very condescending to you and it is very frustrating, but that's just how he is.
Also, i never really understood eva myself, i think part to what happened to the production halfway (near end) through
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Great thread OP. Eva is great, although anything with as loved as it will garner a lot of negative whining. The 2deep4u and pointing out bad religious symbolism (this wasn't what the show was about) have been the go-to posts for tryhards for a long time now.
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This is one of those animes where if you don't like the characters than you probably won't enjoy the show. I hate Catcher in the Rye because I hate Holden Caulfield for being a whiny pussy too, but I don't hate Shinji Ikari. Probably because I don't think Holden has very convincing reasons for acting the way he does, but Shinji's character is far more convincing for me at least.
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On September 14 2012 01:01 Kuni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 00:46 ghost_403 wrote:On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote:
I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard. The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/ Beware NGE, EoE, Rebuild spoilers + Show Spoiler +
Coward for most of the time. But in the end he's the fucking boss, deciding to have none of that fake shit, where all are one entity and decides to live his live on his own, facing all fears and hardship as an individual.
In addition, as far as I am concerned about clues, hints and things they've shown in the rebuild movies so far, he's even Mr. fucking Universe for recreating the entire world to his liking. Some images from the rebuild movies even indicate, that the universe they all live in the rebuild movies isn't just the "second version of the world", but rather the fourth already (I don't remember exactly, but I think that's accurate).
So the rebuild series isn't just a revamped Evangelion, but more like a true sequel. If not and they just didn't care, then fuck it all, but at least the things that you see in the movies really point towards this, which is pretty cool.
And the most fun thing about the series is the reason why Hideaki Anno made the series as weird as it was in the first place. It's not a coincidence that the first half is kind of "standard" and then the second half is nothing like standard at all :-) Shinji's voice actress even lost control and tried to strangle the one who did the Asuka voice in the last scene of EoE, because she was so out of her mind with all the emotions.
Because you made the boss comment, I immediately related it to the AMV.
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT
