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On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing?
This was DK's training house:
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/453917-dk-training-house
There is a lot of money involved.
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On January 31 2015 14:23 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:18 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. LaNm actually is an amazing carry. Remember his Tiny? Just that he plays an astounding support as well. Also, LaNm is an amazing director. Most of DK's calls were made by LaNm in the early game. Such direction is something Black can't give. I do remember his Tiny. I don't remember a single one of his other heroes. That says it all, basically. Contrast that with Sylar. I still remember Sylar killing Liquid 1v3 at the bot lane with a low level LD when they tried to dive him. Making game winning solo ganks on a carry Alchemist. Being the first Chinese player who knew how to play Lycan at an astounding level. The ban-worthiness of his Morphling. THAT is how a top carry leaves his signature. Not with one game on Tiny. I do remember Lanm for other heroes, though. His support Kunkka, support Alchemist, etc. But not for his carries.
Actually LaNm is really well-known for his carry. He carried EHOME to 2nd in TI1.
He is one of those rare players that did well in all positions.
But not many know him pre-DK because his nick was PLT.
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On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing?
most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu)
Mentions food company, does not mention LGD. Hehe.
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On January 31 2015 14:26 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:25 Orome wrote:On January 31 2015 14:22 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:19 uriel- wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. There is talk that fy wants to play carry. I don't know about breaking up one of the most established support duos in the scene, but that's one way to do it. Lanm into his playmaking, usually greedy 4 position like what he already played at DK and fy into the 1. Actually fy has been underperforming as a support. This is probably one of the biggest reasons why VG is not doing so great. There used to be FY-GOD plays in almost every VG game. Now he is making worse plays than fenrir. I'm talking out of my ass here, but I wonder if this is down to him now being the drafter and presumably shotcaller as well. It's a lot harder to make big individual plays when you're trying to direct the whole team. Puppey seems to be doing that quite well
Puppey does have a lot more experience than FY. His probably only just reach 20 not too long ago. If I'm not wrong
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On January 31 2015 14:31 shad2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:26 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:25 Orome wrote:On January 31 2015 14:22 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:19 uriel- wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. There is talk that fy wants to play carry. I don't know about breaking up one of the most established support duos in the scene, but that's one way to do it. Lanm into his playmaking, usually greedy 4 position like what he already played at DK and fy into the 1. Actually fy has been underperforming as a support. This is probably one of the biggest reasons why VG is not doing so great. There used to be FY-GOD plays in almost every VG game. Now he is making worse plays than fenrir. I'm talking out of my ass here, but I wonder if this is down to him now being the drafter and presumably shotcaller as well. It's a lot harder to make big individual plays when you're trying to direct the whole team. Puppey seems to be doing that quite well Puppey does have a lot more experience than FY. His probably only just reach 20 not too long ago. If I'm not wrong
Yeah Puppey is ancient.
I remember watching him and iceiceice duke it out in ESWC 2008.
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On January 31 2015 14:29 beifru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:23 Azarkon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:18 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. LaNm actually is an amazing carry. Remember his Tiny? Just that he plays an astounding support as well. Also, LaNm is an amazing director. Most of DK's calls were made by LaNm in the early game. Such direction is something Black can't give. I do remember his Tiny. I don't remember a single one of his other heroes. That says it all, basically. Contrast that with Sylar. I still remember Sylar killing Liquid 1v3 at the bot lane with a low level LD when they tried to dive him. Making game winning solo ganks on a carry Alchemist. Being the first Chinese player who knew how to play Lycan at an astounding level. The ban-worthiness of his Morphling. THAT is how a top carry leaves his signature. Not with one game on Tiny. I do remember Lanm for other heroes, though. His support Kunkka, support Alchemist, etc. But not for his carries. Actually LaNm is really well-known for his carry. He carried EHOME to 2nd in TI1. He is one of those rare players that did well in all positions. But not many know him pre-DK because his nick was PLT.
Actually 820 was carry. 820 went support only went carry doom was picked, which will be played by crystal. Pretty sure lanm was offlane then
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On January 31 2015 14:34 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:29 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:23 Azarkon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:18 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. LaNm actually is an amazing carry. Remember his Tiny? Just that he plays an astounding support as well. Also, LaNm is an amazing director. Most of DK's calls were made by LaNm in the early game. Such direction is something Black can't give. I do remember his Tiny. I don't remember a single one of his other heroes. That says it all, basically. Contrast that with Sylar. I still remember Sylar killing Liquid 1v3 at the bot lane with a low level LD when they tried to dive him. Making game winning solo ganks on a carry Alchemist. Being the first Chinese player who knew how to play Lycan at an astounding level. The ban-worthiness of his Morphling. THAT is how a top carry leaves his signature. Not with one game on Tiny. I do remember Lanm for other heroes, though. His support Kunkka, support Alchemist, etc. But not for his carries. Actually LaNm is really well-known for his carry. He carried EHOME to 2nd in TI1. He is one of those rare players that did well in all positions. But not many know him pre-DK because his nick was PLT. Actually 820 was carry. 820 went support only went carry doom was picked, which will be played by crystal. Pretty sure lanm was offlane then
Ah... I might be wrong but lanm played offlane only when they picked Prophet.
Could recall him playing carry weaver in many of the games. If I recall 820 played alot of EHOME's ES and Venge back then.
But yeah they switched roles pretty often with MMY fixed in mid.
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United States13143 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu)
It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot.
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On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot.
Another point is that Secret is only unsponsered because Puppey is biding his time for a good offer or something.
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On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot. Teams like this in League dont go unsponsored for very long. Why is it that Secret hasn't been bought by a major organization or been able to secure major sponsors? I would think a team that looks like it might be the best in the world would be something desirable to a ton of major esports organizations.
Like just looking now and i can't even find a website for them... its just odd. Team Liquid, CLG, TSM, Fnatic, etc. all huge organizations without a Dota 2 squad and this one is just sitting here competing in the biggest Dota 2 tournament since TI4 with no organization.
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On January 31 2015 14:42 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot. Another point is that Secret is only unsponsered because Puppey is biding his time for a good offer or something.
I thought they had a sponsor, but for some reason they haven't announced it (like nth / Alliance). Does this actually mean they paid their own way to all their LANs so far?
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On January 31 2015 14:46 IndridCold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot. Teams like this in League dont go unsponsored for very long. Why is it that Secret hasn't been bought by a major organization or been able to secure major sponsors? I would think a team that looks like it might be the best in the world would be something desirable to a ton of major esports organizations. Like just looking now and i can't even find a website for them... its just odd. Team Liquid, CLG, TSM, Fnatic, etc. all huge organizations without a Dota 2 squad and this one is just sitting here competing in the biggest Dota 2 tournament since TI4 with no organization.
Puppey's turned them down. He even totally cut ties with GGA back when the team was first founded because he didn't think they had enough.
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On January 31 2015 14:25 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:23 Azarkon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:18 beifru wrote:On January 31 2015 14:15 Azarkon wrote:
Black for Lanm is a bad trade. Lanm is a playmaker, not a farmer, and even back when he played carries he was never up to par with the best carries. LaNm actually is an amazing carry. Remember his Tiny? Just that he plays an astounding support as well. Also, LaNm is an amazing director. Most of DK's calls were made by LaNm in the early game. Such direction is something Black can't give. I do remember his Tiny. I don't remember a single one of his other heroes. That says it all, basically. Contrast that with Sylar. I still remember Sylar killing Liquid 1v3 at the bot lane with a low level LD when they tried to dive him. Making game winning solo ganks on a carry Alchemist. Being the first Chinese player who knew how to play Lycan at an astounding level. The ban-worthiness of his Morphling. THAT is how a top carry leaves his signature. Not with one game on Tiny. I do remember Lanm for other heroes, though. His support Kunkka, support Alchemist, etc. But not for his carries. to hear the day azarkon sings praises of sylar how the world has turned
Eh, I criticize overhyped Chinese players/teams, but that doesn't indicate I have no respect for the players I think deserve it. I have immense respect for Sylar, MMY, Icex3, the Fy+Fenrir duo, and Mu & Rabbit before they got addicted to RPGs and stopped playing Dota. I also respect Burning, 430, and Lanm-on-support, even though I believe they were a bit overrated.
What gets me is people who refuse to see the weaknesses of Chinese teams and players. For example, overhyping Maybe despite him never having won a lane vs. a top Western mid. Overhyping 430's laning skills back when he was losing 60-70% of his match ups vs. Dendi. Overhyping Mushi throughout the course of 2014 despite him having severe hero pool limitations. All the while criticizing top tier Western players eg Arteezy, Zai, Notail, Xboct, Loda, and Universe for being bad despite them having shown again and again that they are no less talented.
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Vatican City State2902 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:46 IndridCold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot. Teams like this in League dont go unsponsored for very long. Why is it that Secret hasn't been bought by a major organization or been able to secure major sponsors? I would think a team that looks like it might be the best in the world would be something desirable to a ton of major esports organizations. Like just looking now and i can't even find a website for them... its just odd. Team Liquid, CLG, TSM, Fnatic, etc. all huge organizations without a Dota 2 squad and this one is just sitting here competing in the biggest Dota 2 tournament since TI4 with no organization.
there's been a lot of hinting that they're unsatisfied with the current system of sponsorships and team management/ownership. no one really knows exactly what they're going to do, but it's likely that it's not going to be the way most teams are organized atm.
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rofl so both analysis casters no play by play
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What gets me is people who refuse to see the weaknesses of Chinese teams and players. For example, overhyping Maybe despite him never having won a lane vs. a top Western mid. Overhyping 430's laning skills back when he was losing 60-70% of his match ups vs. Dendi. Overhyping Mushi throughout the course of 2014 despite him having severe hero pool limitations. All the while criticizing top tier Western players eg Arteezy, Zai, Notail, Xboct, Loda, and Universe for being bad despite them having shown again and again that they are no less talented.
Look out! Mama bear is upset her kids appear to receive more criticisms than other people's kids. 
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On January 31 2015 14:48 traumatism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 14:42 Jayme wrote:On January 31 2015 14:39 Elyvilon wrote:On January 31 2015 14:30 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote:
alright so i dont follow Dota as closely as I do League. Is the chinese Dota scene as developed as the League scene in china right now? Are these the rich teams that pay their players millions of dollar contracts that are getting crushed or what? I know they are historically the powerhouses in Dota but im not sure what their scene is like. Do they compete in a league and have team houses, coaches, and support staffs and stuff? Or are they like Secret and basically just a team of players without much backing? most of them have at least a teamhouse, (except Big Gods those guys are "retired") some have the backings for major TV stations, some are sponsored by food companies (VG and Tongfu) It is worth noting, however, that despite being unsponsored, by all accounts Secret treats Dota as a full time job and practice and scrim a lot. Another point is that Secret is only unsponsered because Puppey is biding his time for a good offer or something. I thought they had a sponsor, but for some reason they haven't announced it (like nth / Alliance). Does this actually mean they paid their own way to all their LANs so far?
If you can support yourself (and more) through just prize money, what do you need a sponsor for? In order for it to be worth it for Secret to answer to an organization, they'd have to receive some pretty serious benefits. Benefits whose cost to any such organization outweigh what they get out of it. The only thing I can see them getting is a really large corporate sponsor (like intel big) to put at the end of their name. But I can't see them signing a contract with a team like C9 or EG.
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EPT
