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On January 31 2015 17:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
So how does it work then? Why did Valve allow DAC to have immortal items and not other tournaments? Like how does that work?
Since I do agree, that the items are an important force when determining the success of a tournament.
Valve is listed in organisers on liquipedia.
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On January 31 2015 17:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 17:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
So how does it work then? Why did Valve allow DAC to have immortal items and not other tournaments? Like how does that work?
Since I do agree, that the items are an important force when determining the success of a tournament. valve seems to give a lot of special treatment to china just because it's the biggest scene.... there have been a lot of perfectworld exclusive cosmetics that end up being worth A LOT
Because if they gave me that treatment, I probably wouldn't even have to hold a tournament and still fund a larger prize pool than SL11.
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Jenkins remote cast for VG vs HR, yes please.
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Medusa picked up by Rave.
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On January 31 2015 17:47 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 17:21 ref4 wrote:On January 31 2015 17:18 trinxified wrote:On January 31 2015 17:16 beifru wrote:
BG's triumph just shows that mechanics in Dota is really overstated.
The game really is about experience, game sense and strategy. this is how it's always been though... decision making is what separates pros from each other. most of the pros know and have the same mechanics well it's pretty clear that there isn't as much mechanical skills involved in DOTA2/LoL unlike SC2/BW Yes, but so what? Mechanical skill is a false idol. SC2 and especially BW were overloaded on EAPM, which are a product of intensive training and biological age. The barrier of entry was so high because the effort required to reach the EAPM needed to compete with the best were measured in thousands of hours, and you had to start early because your EAPM ceiling starts dropping the moment you hit your 20s. Koreans were practically the only ones willing to put in that sort of effort at that young age, and that's why they had such a monopoly in those games. But were these mechanics special? Did the best players in Korea win by sheer mechanics alone? No, not exactly. It was effectively a rite of passage grind that a 14-15 year old needed to get through in order to become a pro gamer, and a way to keep other regions out of the competition because they didn't want to sacrifice their teens getting arthritis. What separated the best from the rest were, even still, not mechanics but game sense, game understanding, and tactical/strategic innovation. All those TL articles about how Boxer taught people the value of micro, how Savior mastered tactical maneuvers, how Flash perfected the art of star sense, etc. Those weren't about mechanics, ultimately. Mechanics were only a beginning. Dota/LoL doesn't have the same mechanical requirements that SC2/BW did. Ergo, a guy with 50 EAPM's able to become a pro. But, just as in SC 2 and BW, meeting the mechanical requirement is only the beginning. The best pros still have special skills that your random mechanically sound player doesn't. It's those skills that allow guys eg Arteezy, Icex3, and Zai to stand out. And these skills, judging by the fact that there are so very few teams and players who are able to simply do what those players do, are rare and difficult to acquire. It's not though your random 50 EAPM pros are able to get together a team and beat Secret in a Bo5 because the game's skill ceiling's so low. Posh, I say, to the false idol of BW mechanics that force kids into becoming practice robots. There are people who find that concept tantalizing, who believe that masochism is a form of manliness, and that only those who've gone through the crucible of EAPM training are worthy of respect. But not I. I rather see the grind reduced and to let higher skills - not base mechanics - decide the best from the rest.
totally agree with this.
i'd also add that the requirements for entry to professional DOTA2 are FAR SLIMMER than entry into SC2 currently. not only do you have to find teammates that fit 5 different roles at a competitively high level, those 5 generally must speak the same language AND have the time investment to train. then you must train properly and win due to games being much longer than sc games in general. in fact if you knew how to train for sc properly you'd have a higher chance of going pro and succeeding / winning a title than in dota where despite if you had played for 5-10 years, does not warrant or equate to higher success. dota in general is a high variable game which continually change like the eco system, whereas sc is more black and white.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 31 2015 17:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 17:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
So how does it work then? Why did Valve allow DAC to have immortal items and not other tournaments? Like how does that work?
Since I do agree, that the items are an important force when determining the success of a tournament. valve seems to give a lot of special treatment to china just because it's the biggest scene.... there have been a lot of perfectworld exclusive cosmetics that end up being worth A LOT
I think if any well proven tournament organizer made something of that scope (the base prizepool, the venue, the amount of teams invited and everything) and had artists good enough to make quality hats, I think Valve would allow them to make immortal items.
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On January 31 2015 17:56 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Some chinese teams don't try hard that much 'cause New Year shuffle is incoming, please take it into account.
That said, where's my Big God flair, admins? xiao8 and Faith are the most succesful Chinese drafters-leaders, when their teams acknowledge it, they do well. Not suprised to see EHOME struggle under former DK's coach leadership either.
BG actually has the drafters/shotcallers of the #1, #2 and #4 (both Burning and Lanm) teams of TI4. It's pretty sick.
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No one's picking ursa against axe or bristle.
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I think EE just randomed a hero for himself again
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So, stupid question, does Zeus' thunderbolt damage get reduced by BB's passive? Animation wise, it's coming from the sky.
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Germany3128 Posts
I didn't watch Dota a lot in the last few months.... is TB not viable anymore? Did he get nerfed? Just wondering because I expected C9 TB :D
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On January 31 2015 17:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 17:53 trinxified wrote:On January 31 2015 17:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On January 31 2015 17:50 trinxified wrote:On January 31 2015 17:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On January 31 2015 17:48 trinxified wrote:On January 31 2015 17:47 FiWiFaKi wrote:On January 31 2015 17:45 trinxified wrote:
I just realized... majority of DAC's prize money is contributed... wow Yeah, it's pretty neat. In my opinion, the tournament would have looked exactly the same if the prize pool was 500k instead though. They received all this extra money so recently. it's so huge though. the ratio I mean. contributed money is more than TEN times the initial prize pool. Two reasons: -China -Perfect list of invites, and having every team that is anyone in qualifiers. immortal items. I try and make people sound less shallow than they are. Man, I actually hate items in Dota 2. If I had every single item in Dota, I'd still rather use the standard set... I just think that the pure carbon copy of the game is so beautiful, I don't like modifications. Makes it nice for me I suppose, no incentive to spend money on it. I'm the complete opposite. I got a set on almost every hero possible, except Arcanas. Oh geez, how much have you spent thus far?
Not much compared to others... I think almost $250 in total on Dota 2.
$70 on DAC, $70 on TI4, then about $100 just buying stuff on the community market
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On January 31 2015 17:58 Kishin2 wrote:
No one's picking ursa against axe or bristle.
lane countering doesn't justify having such a hit-or-miss carry in the lategame, i'd imagine
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alright bone7 you got bat, time to redeem yourself today
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On January 31 2015 17:58 ref4 wrote:
I think EE just randomed a hero for himself again
Is this the first Gyro pick of the tournament?
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On January 31 2015 17:59 Unattended Cake wrote:
So, stupid question, does Zeus' thunderbolt damage get reduced by BB's passive? Animation wise, it's coming from the sky.
It's still the direction BB face relatively to zeus.
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Germany3128 Posts
On January 31 2015 17:59 Unattended Cake wrote:
So, stupid question, does Zeus' thunderbolt damage get reduced by BB's passive? Animation wise, it's coming from the sky.
I think it depends on the direction where BB is facing. Means, if Zeus is behind BB it should get reduced
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Rave borrowing corelock from MVP
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On January 31 2015 17:59 TheNewEra wrote:
I didn't watch Dota a lot in the last few months.... is TB not viable anymore? Did he get nerfed? Just wondering because I expected C9 TB :D
He's still picked very occasionally, not in this tournament though. He's just been nerfed a bit, and people have figured out how to punish this camp and get a hard carry farmed a bit more and more. So recently we've seen stuff like what Secret is doing, picking aggressive heroes and ending games earlier (not like Newbee or VG in TI4 though).
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On January 31 2015 17:59 TheNewEra wrote:
I didn't watch Dota a lot in the last few months.... is TB not viable anymore? Did he get nerfed? Just wondering because I expected C9 TB :D
there was a ~25% dmg reduction of illusions to buildings which hit him pretty hard, but VG still picked him every now and then, I still think that hero has a place but dunno why he's being neglected so much
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EPT
