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Break Mechanic Uncertaintity

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Frogstomp
Profile Joined January 2013
United States125 Posts
July 08 2015 23:44 GMT
#1
Since the introduction of the break mechanic - most notably via the silver edge, I have been annoyed by it's uneven implementation.

The item's description reads, "Attacking to end the invisibility will deal 225 bonus damage to the target, disable their passive abilities, and reduce their damage output. "

Yet I can attest that Break does not disable Pudge's flesh heap passive.

Now, disabling all of Pudge's flesh heap stacks would be pretty huge, at least against a very farmed Pudge. I'm not trying to argue that it should or should not disable any given passive. I am only pointing out that "flesh heap" is classified by the game as a passive ability, and that the Break mechanic does not disable it.

For example, Break doesn't disable Wraith King's ultimate, and I think we can all agree that it shouldn't disable his ultimate. But all the same, Reincarnation is a passive. It is not disabled by break.

Having established that the Break mechanic does not apply to all passives, I've started this thread as an attempt to get some clarity on exactly which passives are vulnerable, and which are not.

So if anyone is absolutely certain that a given passive is not disabled by Break, please post it here... and maybe we can create a semi-comprehensive listing. Wouldn't that be grand!

To jog your collective memory, here's a listing of (hopefully) all of the passives in the game.

Again, it's clear that some of these passive are not disabled by break. Does anyone know which passive ARE disabled?

This newly introduced uncertainty has been pissing me off for quite some time. We can debate forever which passives should and shouldn't be disabled by Break... but atm it seems completely random and abitrary to me. IMHO, if Icefrog doesn't want Break to disable a given passive, then it should be assigned an entirely new category.


--


Aftershock (Earthshaker)

Arcane Aura (Crystal Maiden)

Backstab (Riki)

Backtrack (Void)

Bash (Slardar)

Berserker's Blood (Huskar)

Blade Dance (Juggernaut crit)

Blur (Phantom Assassin

Bristleback (seriously?)

Caustic Finale (Sand King)

Chaos strike (CK)

Corrosive Skin (Viper)

Counter Helix (Axe)

Coup de Grace (Phantom Assassin)

Craggy Exterior (Tony)

Curse of Avernus (Abaddon)

Degen Aura (Omniknight)

Desolate (Spectre)

Dispersion (Spectre)

Divided We Stand (Meepo)

Dragon Blood (Dragon Knight)

Drunken Brawler (Brewmaster)

Empowering Haste (Spirit Breaker)

Essence Aura (Outworld Devourer)

Essence Shift (Slark)

Feast (Lifestealer)

Feral Impulse (Lycan)

Fervor (Troll)

Fiery Soul (Lina)

Flesh heap (Pudge) - Not Disabled

Fury Swipes (Ursa)

Geminate Attack (Weaver)

Geostrike (Meepo)

Gravekeeper's Cloak (Visage)

Great Cleave (Sven)

Greater Bash (Spirit Breaker)

Greevil's Greed (Alchemist)

Headshot (Sniper)

Heartstopper Aura (Necrolyte)

Hunter in the Night (Night Stalker)

Incapacitating Bite (Brood)

Inner Beast (Beastmaster)

Jinada (Bounty Hunter)

Juxtapose (Phantom Lancer)

Kraken Shell (Tide)

Lunar Blessing (Luna)

Mana Break (Antimage)

Marksmanship (Drow)

Moment of Courage (Legion)

Moon Glaive (Luna)

Mortal Strike (Wraith King)

Multicast (Ogre Magi)

Natural Order (Elder Titan)

Necromastery (Shadow Fiend)

Nethertoxin (Viper)

Null Field (Rubick)

Overload (Storm Spirit)

Permanent Invisibility (Riki)

Phantom Rush (Phantom Lancer)

Poison Sting (Venomancer)

Precision Aura (Drow)

Presence of the Dark Lord (Shadowfed)

Psi Blades (Templar Assassin)

Reactive Armor (Timbersaw)

Reincarnation (Wraith King) - Not Disabled

Return (Centaur)

Sadist (Necrophos)

Spell Shield (Antimage)

Static Field (Zeus)

Synergy (Lone Druid)

Take Aim (Sniper)

Thirst (Bloodseeker)

Tidebringer (Kunka)

Timelock (Void)

Unstable Current (Razor)

Vampiric Aura (Wraith King)

Vengeance Aura

Warpath (Bristleback)

Witchcraft (Death Prophet)
GentleDrill
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom672 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-08 23:58:15
July 08 2015 23:54 GMT
#2
There are two different wikis that list this stuff.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Break
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Break

The Curse wiki even gives precise descriptions of some specific interactions (e.g. when a stack based passive is only prevented from gaining new stacks, as with Fiery Soul and Reactive Armor, or is disabled completely, as in Fervor).

It is inconsistent and arbitrary but that literally is Dota.
Admiral_Thrawn
Profile Joined July 2015
10 Posts
July 09 2015 11:28 GMT
#3
Yeah. The curse wiki is the best guide to find out obscure details.

You should check out the dispel page.

As for this actual topic I think the following are harmed by break the most:

Dragon Knight	Timbersaw
Elder Titan Antimage
Bloodseeker Drow
Mordred Venge
Sniper Luna
Zeus* Necrophos
Enchantress Visage
Slark Huskar
Faceless Void gyrocopter*
Spectre Spirit Breaker
Ursa Troll Warlord


*purely because of damage reduction
Kaz Nara Dak!
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
July 09 2015 11:53 GMT
#4
Yeah, without taking into account usual items for each hero (AM goes manta bkb very often).
Admiral_Thrawn
Profile Joined July 2015
10 Posts
July 09 2015 12:34 GMT
#5
Even Huskar players in pubs go BKB because crow control can be a big deal. Even though some items can counter the mechanic the cool down and duration on Silver Edge makes it more reliable than the counters.
Kaz Nara Dak!
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
July 09 2015 13:01 GMT
#6
i have to admit i always overlook the dmg reduction from silver edge, and base my decision making on whether to upgrade lothars on what passives are on the enemy team
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
BigO
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden956 Posts
July 09 2015 15:34 GMT
#7
In the case of Huskar, you need to remember that his ult provides him with temporary magic immunity, making the break effect from Silver Edge not that useful vs Huskar.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
July 09 2015 15:40 GMT
#8
On July 10 2015 00:34 BigO wrote:
In the case of Huskar, you need to remember that his ult provides him with temporary magic immunity, making the break effect from Silver Edge not that useful vs Huskar.

today i learned

i always just thought his ult meant he couldnt be disabled, but wasnt necessarily magic immune nor dispelled debuffs
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 09 2015 15:49 GMT
#9
Honestly the damage reduction component makes the Silver active good simply against heroes with heavily front-loaded or end-loaded damage (e.g. channeled ultis or combo-based heroes). Using Silver on Sand King at any point, for example, takes a lot of the impact out of Epicenter.
Moderator
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
July 09 2015 16:09 GMT
#10
Oh shit, it's a reduction of all damage sources? What if you use it on Phoenix before he uses Supernova, does the egg remove the debuff?
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
GentleDrill
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom672 Posts
July 09 2015 17:39 GMT
#11
It applies a strong dispel so I'd imagine so.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34490 Posts
July 10 2015 10:17 GMT
#12
On July 10 2015 00:49 TheYango wrote:
Honestly the damage reduction component makes the Silver active good simply against heroes with heavily front-loaded or end-loaded damage (e.g. channeled ultis or combo-based heroes). Using Silver on Sand King at any point, for example, takes a lot of the impact out of Epicenter.

Wow did not know this.

I expect that Phoenix egg removes the debuff but that's just a gut feeling.
Moderator
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