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On November 26 2013 17:37 Eriksen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 15:35 fdsdfg wrote:
It seems like every time I play a game with Bloodseeker on the enemy's team, he always destroys me, no matter who I am.
What weaknesses does he have that I can take advantage of? It feels like he hits me with rupture, and no matter what I do I'm just dead.
I even got a BKB to protect me from rupture, but it doesn't seem to work As everybody has stated above, always bring a TP if you're up against a Bloodseeker. You got ruptured, you TP. If things go quite nicely on the farming side, get a Linken, as it will negates Rupture first try. Thus, Bloodseeker is not a mega-carry (tier-1 carry), so with the right plays you can remove his presence earlier in the game (obs, maybe sentries, quick pickoffs on him, etc)
Ghost scepter makes him sad too
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On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion).
I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid?
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
I think he means refresher.
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I played a game with a juggernaut who went something like drums aghs refresher blink dagger. He was on my team and we won, but is that build actually generally legitimate in pubs?
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Sure. Drums is inexpensive stats that gives you the mana to cast your abilities in fights (actually an issue for jugg) as well as provides mobility and some reasonable damage/survivability (for the price). Aghs is probably the premier damage item for jugg just because his ulti is so bonkers (Hi I'd like to be invincible while attacking and getting free damage thanks). After that, while something like a manta or butterfly or whatever is probably better than a refresher, I'm assuming you were kinda stomping so might as well just buy a refresher. Blink is situational but definitely legitimate since jugg has serious positioning issues in general.
I prefer something like drums into yasha THEN aghs just to help you farm a bit faster since aghs doesn't do that but if its a pub then just do what is fun.
TL;DR: refresher is sub-optimal but OK. Blink is very situational. The rest is plenty legit.
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United States47024 Posts
What probably happened was that he went Phase->Drum->Agha (all legit), and then realized you guys were winning hard enough for him to buy Blink/Refresher for fun.
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On November 28 2013 03:27 Just_a_Moth wrote:
I played a game with a juggernaut who went something like drums aghs refresher blink dagger. He was on my team and we won, but is that build actually generally legitimate in pubs?
The guy from dreamlaugue, 2GD, does it too (said on his stream). He goes mask of madness, refresher and aghs with molnjir. Apparantly, u can use MoM during flight and get more hits (something like that, they talked about it when Alliance went for a similar build last month), then refresh, and ulti again, with mom after. I have never tried it.
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On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid?
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_Orb
In theory its like:
With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct)
Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage
So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 heros. Overkill
edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt...
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On November 28 2013 10:16 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid? http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_OrbIn theory its like: With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct) Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 (three) heros. Overkill edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt...
because you need to farm up 10k of items for 14s silence. with silence strat you have potential 15s team silence 15min into the game, and huge team fight damage with krob with single target damage on drow. add riki and disruptor for even moooore AOE silence but that would be overkill.
btw, when techies comes out, it will be number 1 top ban/pick, calling it now.
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On November 28 2013 01:54 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 17:37 Eriksen wrote:On November 26 2013 15:35 fdsdfg wrote:
It seems like every time I play a game with Bloodseeker on the enemy's team, he always destroys me, no matter who I am.
What weaknesses does he have that I can take advantage of? It feels like he hits me with rupture, and no matter what I do I'm just dead.
I even got a BKB to protect me from rupture, but it doesn't seem to work As everybody has stated above, always bring a TP if you're up against a Bloodseeker. You got ruptured, you TP. If things go quite nicely on the farming side, get a Linken, as it will negates Rupture first try. Thus, Bloodseeker is not a mega-carry (tier-1 carry), so with the right plays you can remove his presence earlier in the game (obs, maybe sentries, quick pickoffs on him, etc) Ghost scepter makes him sad too
bloodrage doesnt dispell ghost scepter now?
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On November 28 2013 19:16 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 10:16 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid? http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_OrbIn theory its like: With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct) Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 (three) heros. Overkill edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt... because you need to farm up 10k of items for 14s silence. with silence strat you have potential 15s team silence 15min into the game, and huge team fight damage with krob with single target damage on drow. add riki and disruptor for even moooore AOE silence but that would be overkill. btw, when techies comes out, it will be number 1 top ban/pick, calling it now.
just trying to help, i like the idea. The aghs is nice tho. i think u basically silence, and disarm, and do 390 damage, and manadrain them for 192 mana for 7sec (although i have never tested silencer ult+aghs). Imagine that times two, thats just unfair Disruptor doesnt need many items either to be usefull. Yes i think it could work
11 heros now have a silence in 6.79. Bloodseeker has a 9 second silence. Nightstalker (3 sec daytime) 9second silence during the night. I think it means u could silence a single target, like stormspirit for 7+7+9+9= 32 seconds, LOL thats gg i guess
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On November 28 2013 19:59 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 19:16 saltywet wrote:On November 28 2013 10:16 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid? http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_OrbIn theory its like: With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct) Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 (three) heros. Overkill edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt... because you need to farm up 10k of items for 14s silence. with silence strat you have potential 15s team silence 15min into the game, and huge team fight damage with krob with single target damage on drow. add riki and disruptor for even moooore AOE silence but that would be overkill. btw, when techies comes out, it will be number 1 top ban/pick, calling it now. just trying to help, i like the idea. The aghs is nice tho. i think u basically silence, and disarm, and do 390 damage, and manadrain them for 192 mana for 7sec (although i have never tested silencer ult+aghs). Imagine that times two, thats just unfair Disruptor doesnt need many items either to be usefull. Yes i think it could work 11 heros now have a silence in 6.79. Bloodseeker has a 9 second silence. Nightstalker (3 sec daytime) 9second silence during the night. I think it means u could silence a single target, like stormspirit for 7+7+9+9= 32 seconds, LOL thats gg i guess
Not really. It would be smarter to have one silence and kill him during that silence instead of chain silencing him for an hour while the rest of the members of his team kill you.
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On November 29 2013 01:12 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 19:59 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 19:16 saltywet wrote:On November 28 2013 10:16 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid? http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_OrbIn theory its like: With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct) Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 (three) heros. Overkill edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt... because you need to farm up 10k of items for 14s silence. with silence strat you have potential 15s team silence 15min into the game, and huge team fight damage with krob with single target damage on drow. add riki and disruptor for even moooore AOE silence but that would be overkill. btw, when techies comes out, it will be number 1 top ban/pick, calling it now. just trying to help, i like the idea. The aghs is nice tho. i think u basically silence, and disarm, and do 390 damage, and manadrain them for 192 mana for 7sec (although i have never tested silencer ult+aghs). Imagine that times two, thats just unfair Disruptor doesnt need many items either to be usefull. Yes i think it could work 11 heros now have a silence in 6.79. Bloodseeker has a 9 second silence. Nightstalker (3 sec daytime) 9second silence during the night. I think it means u could silence a single target, like stormspirit for 7+7+9+9= 32 seconds, LOL thats gg i guess Not really. It would be smarter to have one silence and kill him during that silence instead of chain silencing him for an hour while the rest of the members of his team kill you.
I feel the same (as i stated before), but its not proven yet. So lets just try to help him as much we can shall we.....
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is there something like an accepted matchup tier list? especially for mid heros? but also for lane heros, would be good if it also had simple explanations.
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On November 29 2013 01:12 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 19:59 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 19:16 saltywet wrote:On November 28 2013 10:16 govie wrote:On November 28 2013 02:52 njt7 wrote:On November 27 2013 21:26 govie wrote:On November 27 2013 18:15 saltywet wrote:
we need a thread for unorthodox strategies
what is viability of silencing team (krob+silencer+drow ranger, maybe riki also) potentially 15s silence (or silencer can get refresher for 20s+). the enemies can dispel once with manta maybe twice with diffusal, and if they get bkb silencer turns on ult. on paper, the silence team doesn't have to worry about getting focussed down, locked down, nuked and can strictly get armor and damage items Point is that altough could be good, ur better off with silincer with orb. Thats 10 seconds. U only need to take out 1 or two targets (rp or blackhole or naga etc), rest is obsolete or has less impact spells. I like a halberdteam more in combination with silincer+orb (noob opinion). I dont follow what you mean with silencer with orb. Do you mean orchid? http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Refresher_OrbIn theory its like: With ags and refr. orb : 7 sec * 2 = 14 sec global silince and can deal 2x 390 damage per individual enemy hero (each time they cast if im correct) Without aghs but with refr. orb : 6 sec * 2 = 12 sec no damage So, expensive yes, is it worth it, i dont know but the pros dont do it and i aint a pro. But if u want a silincestrat, i would go for 1 big silincehero instead of 5 (three) heros. Overkill edit : silince seems to be global without aghs (dotabuff), i dont know why i thought it wasnt... because you need to farm up 10k of items for 14s silence. with silence strat you have potential 15s team silence 15min into the game, and huge team fight damage with krob with single target damage on drow. add riki and disruptor for even moooore AOE silence but that would be overkill. btw, when techies comes out, it will be number 1 top ban/pick, calling it now. just trying to help, i like the idea. The aghs is nice tho. i think u basically silence, and disarm, and do 390 damage, and manadrain them for 192 mana for 7sec (although i have never tested silencer ult+aghs). Imagine that times two, thats just unfair Disruptor doesnt need many items either to be usefull. Yes i think it could work 11 heros now have a silence in 6.79. Bloodseeker has a 9 second silence. Nightstalker (3 sec daytime) 9second silence during the night. I think it means u could silence a single target, like stormspirit for 7+7+9+9= 32 seconds, LOL thats gg i guess Not really. It would be smarter to have one silence and kill him during that silence instead of chain silencing him for an hour while the rest of the members of his team kill you.
how is the enemy team gonna kill my team when their whole team is AOE chain silenced , more importantly krob does insane team fight damage early midgame, drow does insane single target damage early midgame and both with little farm - they just suffer from weakness from chain CC which is the point of silence team.
anyways, i dont think we need more than 3 silence's on team - actually we can start with drow silence -->krob silence --> silencer ult, this will be 15s and by then drow and krob silence will be off CD for another 10+s LOL, but really, they can kill the targets in the first 15 seconds.
drow and krob are also very good pushers, but they arent late game material. the last 2 heroes slots can be saved for more nuking power, initiators/trappers, more pushing power (imagine during late game with silencer refresher 10+s, silence enemy team, then use your entire team to siege their tower rax because they can't initiate you/lock you down in the 10 seconds)
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The problem with silencer is that he's completely countered by bkb and bkb is a very common pickup against silencer on any hero against silencer. You'd be far better off going for a sheep almost always.
Also, drow and krob really do translate well into the lategame, although the former does moreso.
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United States47024 Posts
At this point this discussion of the all-silence team has far exceeded the bounds of a "simple question". In the interest of preserving the purpose of this thread, I'd suggest moving this discussion to another venue.
On November 29 2013 08:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
is there something like an accepted matchup tier list? especially for mid heros? but also for lane heros, would be good if it also had simple explanations.
Purely from a perspective of lane matchups/tournament 1v1? There's a few accepted top tier picks in tournament 1v1, but beyond that, it's very counterpick-dependent. A tier list would have very little practical value.
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Could somebody tell my why battle fury isn't good on lifestealer?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 29 2013 09:59 Mostha wrote:
Could somebody tell my why battle fury isn't good on lifestealer?
Because Lifestealer's power development doesn't favor farming that hard. Lifestealer has powerful early fighting ability with 1-2 minor items (Drums, Armlet, etc.), and does not have the same lategame inevitability of BF-using Agi carries (AM, Void). BF is an item aimed at farming to ~3rd major item before entering fights, but Lifestealer's peak strength comes well before then, and he wants to enter fights with his midgame fighting items.
It's actually situationally a good pickup but not for the purpose of farming as is usually the case with the item.
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So let's start with his skillset:
He has a slow which can help him gank
He has rage which makes him magic immune and extremely strong early/mid game compared to other heroes
His passive helps him with lane sustainability and added damage late game
And his ult adds a fairly large AoE nuke as well as a good tool for ganking
The reason people don't get battlefury on him is because it just doesn't fit his playstyle. He can't farm as fast as an antimage with blink, however with his rage and infest with fewer items he can make a much larger dent earlier on while battlefury is generally obtained to help increase farm and give you some sustainability.
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EPT
