Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 692

On November 21 2013 02:49 Mataza wrote:
Saying leveling Strafe above level 1 early on sucks is definitely wrong.

On November 21 2013 15:54 SolarFlare93 wrote:
Hello everyone. I had a game recently where our team consisted of Alchemist, Gyrocopter, Jakiro (me), Zeus and Windrunner. One of my friends was afk and when he came back he instantly picked alchemist and didn't realise we already had a hard carry in gyrocopter but it was fine still I guess. Windrunner is a random we got paired up with and I swapped my pick (WR) with his random (jakiro). Zeus dced alot throughout the game as his internet was being annoying, and lagged throughout. The game is here: http://dotabuff.com/matches/392411179

One of the issues I had when I watched the replay was I was severely underfarmed as the hard support on Jakiro and we lost the safe lane to CM + Slardar, hence Alchemist and I started forcing team fights whenever it was favorable. In the end I was looking at our team items and no one had purchased the Mekanism in a timely fashion (I bought it when the game was almost over...) I look at Windrunner and she's building a Scythe of Vyse already at the 25 minute mark with 2 of the big items already which would have been a mek at around the 20 minute mark instead of a Scythe of Vyse or perhaps earlier (not sure). Could I argue that the earlier Mekanism would have benefited the team more in team fights instead of trying to rush this late game item which wouldn't have contributed earlier, which could potentially save some of our heroes? She didn't even have the chance to use it since we were already killing their barracks and she had equal farm to the gyrocopter throughout the game. (I had problems with this Windrunner's play where she would take guaranteed kills for the carry... sigh) Alternatively, could the zeus have gone for the mek?

On November 21 2013 15:54 SolarFlare93 wrote:
Hello everyone. I had a game recently where our team consisted of Alchemist, Gyrocopter, Jakiro (me), Zeus and Windrunner. One of my friends was afk and when he came back he instantly picked alchemist and didn't realise we already had a hard carry in gyrocopter but it was fine still I guess. Windrunner is a random we got paired up with and I swapped my pick (WR) with his random (jakiro). Zeus dced alot throughout the game as his internet was being annoying, and lagged throughout. The game is here: http://dotabuff.com/matches/392411179

One of the issues I had when I watched the replay was I was severely underfarmed as the hard support on Jakiro and we lost the safe lane to CM + Slardar, hence Alchemist and I started forcing team fights whenever it was favorable. In the end I was looking at our team items and no one had purchased the Mekanism in a timely fashion (I bought it when the game was almost over...) I look at Windrunner and she's building a Scythe of Vyse already at the 25 minute mark with 2 of the big items already which would have been a mek at around the 20 minute mark instead of a Scythe of Vyse or perhaps earlier (not sure). Could I argue that the earlier Mekanism would have benefited the team more in team fights instead of trying to rush this late game item which wouldn't have contributed earlier, which could potentially save some of our heroes? She didn't even have the chance to use it since we were already killing their barracks and she had equal farm to the gyrocopter throughout the game. (I had problems with this Windrunner's play where she would take guaranteed kills for the carry... sigh) Alternatively, could the zeus have gone for the mek?

On November 21 2013 19:16 govie wrote:
2. I saw dendi playing windrunner 2 days ago, which lane and role i dont know i guess offlane (but not sure), purchasing order : wand, bottle, tp scroll, forcestaff, sheepstick, blinkdagger

On November 21 2013 19:23 Chriamon wrote:
If I'm windrunner and there's a jakiro on my team, ofc I expect him to buy the mek.

On November 21 2013 01:10 HollowLord wrote:


Wait.................................... what?

On November 21 2013 19:41 TheYango wrote:
A couple of points:
1) A 5th position hero should almost never be the one buying Mek. It comes too late to be impactful because of the 5th position's heroes demands for buying wards/smoke/etc. already. A support Mek is fine, but even on supports, it should be on the more farmed of the two supports. In that particular lineup, Jakiro should not be buying Mek because he is likely to be the least farm dependent hero and therefore already shouldering the burden of wards/smoke/etc.
2) If your Gyro is intent on playing carry, Alche can support. Alch+Jakiro actually is a very strong dual roam (Alchemist has the initiating stun, Jakiro has a follow-up stun and secondary nuke). In this scenario, Alch is actually also an acceptable Mek carrier.
3) Who gets the Mek is not something that's set in stone after hero selection. It depends on how the game is going, who is how farmed, and at what point in the game your team wishes to push/teamfight. A Mek should be bought on the hero that can most reasonably provide it for the earliest possible time your team will want to teamfight. A Mek that does not turn into a push/teamfight timing is unnecessarily early, but an early enough Mek that is used to enable pushes/fights can outright win the game before the 15 minute mark. In your particular lineup that game, Jakiro, Alchemist, and Windrunner were acceptable Mek carriers. Jakiro is hard to put the Mek on because of how low his farm priority is. Windrunner can get it if it happens to come at an appropriate time, but depending on the game it might not be wrong for her not to buy it (particularly if you have DCed players and cannot force pushes/fights at times you want due to being down a man).

Note that Zeus is actually a very poor Mek carrier. Mek has a very high mana cost and puts a lot of strain on the hero to have enough mana to use it at the best time. Zeus' inherent mana usage is too high to allow him to buy Mek until too late into the game.


Item selection is highly dependent on so many factors in the game that it's basically worthless to recite a build some pro player did in some specific game and blindly copy that. The important thing to learn is when a player gets those items and why.


This is most certainly wrong. The correct Mek buyer is the one who can provide it at the timing where the team needs it. An off-lane Windrunner usually gets this in the 12-15 minute range where teams are starting to make their midgame timings and make fights happen. Even if there is an appropriate support Mek carrier, this does not make it OK for you to push the Mek burden onto them if they can't get a Mek in that time while you can.

If the Jakiro is exceptionally farmed, you can let him buy it. If you're sufficiently behind that you won't get it much faster than him, you can let him buy it. If your teamcomp or other factors in the game (e.g. a player DCed) demand that you avoid fights anyway until a late enough point in the game where he can have the Mek regardless, you can let him buy it. But under normal circumstances, you will be able to afford it when your team needs it and he won't, making you the more appropriate buyer.

On November 21 2013 22:40 nojok wrote:

It was relatively common on bnet pubs, sharing your RoH with your lane mate. To be fair courrier was really rare on bnet, and often it was not shared.