EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 489
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On June 21 2013 04:47 Jotoco wrote: Strange. I recall receiving the message that the subject is magic immune several times when attempting to block a charge of darkness with any kind of stun. At one point in dota1, it made you magic immune but alerted the enemy. 6.72 Charge of Darkness reworked. Before, allowed Spirit Breaker to target any enemy unit to charge upto 4 seconds, gaining more speed depending on how long of a charge it was. Speed gain upto 60%, would stun 1.4/1.8/2.2/2.6 seconds on impact. Would gain vision and truesight of targeted unit during the charge's duration, would become magic immunne during the charge if fulled charged up, and would have the speed boost for 2 seconds after impact. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On June 20 2013 21:43 icystorage wrote: does indirect flak cannon never miss against evasion? also split shot Idk about flak cannon, but split shot only checks for evasion on the main target. If you miss the main target, you miss all the targets. If you hit the first target, you hit all the targets. | ||
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Feiya
Germany42 Posts
I have a followup question. So far i played ~12hours of chaos knight and Luna in bot games. The way i approached LoL and did quite good until i quit recently was playing 4-5 champs and grinding rankeds with only them. In LoL it worked out, but i read in one of the threads here that for DotA this might not work and i should be playing every hero. So is it an okay approach taking a few heroes for different roles and try to get comfortable with them or will it hinder my learning curve to much compared to LoL where it was completely fine to stick to a very small champ pool. Another question i have is about choosing a lane. As far as im understanding there's not much jungling going on, at least not as a role itself. Is it usually going to be 2-1-2 in the pubs and is it usually 2 supports 2 carries? In LoL everyone kinda had their lane they wanted to play, but with 2-1-2 it feels a little bit more flexible and therefore harder to understand as a new player. Im not thinking about mid so far, i think there is a lot of counter picking going on which im not ready to get into yet. Will i need to be able to play some mid heroes or will i not be forced to go mid in pubs that often? thanks in advance. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 21 2013 07:22 LAN-f34r wrote: Idk about flak cannon, but split shot only checks for evasion on the main target. If you miss the main target, you miss all the targets. If you hit the first target, you hit all the targets. They're both bugged in DotA 2 right now. They're supposed to function that way, but they currently don't. | ||
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Scrandom
Canada2819 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On June 21 2013 09:50 Feiya wrote: yesterday i asked you how to approach the game as a newcomer, thanks for the replies so far. I have a followup question. So far i played ~12hours of chaos knight and Luna in bot games. The way i approached LoL and did quite good until i quit recently was playing 4-5 champs and grinding rankeds with only them. In LoL it worked out, but i read in one of the threads here that for DotA this might not work and i should be playing every hero. So is it an okay approach taking a few heroes for different roles and try to get comfortable with them or will it hinder my learning curve to much compared to LoL where it was completely fine to stick to a very small champ pool. Another question i have is about choosing a lane. As far as im understanding there's not much jungling going on, at least not as a role itself. Is it usually going to be 2-1-2 in the pubs and is it usually 2 supports 2 carries? In LoL everyone kinda had their lane they wanted to play, but with 2-1-2 it feels a little bit more flexible and therefore harder to understand as a new player. Im not thinking about mid so far, i think there is a lot of counter picking going on which im not ready to get into yet. Will i need to be able to play some mid heroes or will i not be forced to go mid in pubs that often? thanks in advance. It's fine to stick with a few heroes when starting out. You will probally want to branch out later on, but that should happen when you feel comfortable trying new heroes. Most of the games should be 2-1-2, but junglers shouldn't be that uncommon. About roles, you will see everything. You should expect playing games even with no supports (no carries is obviously far less likely). People will fight for last hits in lane and basically play their own game. It's not like there aren't games where people pick good teams and play it well, but you shouldn't expect that, specially at low levels. You really shouldn't be forced to play mids in pubs, specially not if you pick early. That doesn't mean your team won't end up with unconventional mid heroes. Counter picking isn't really that big of a deal most of the time, with a few exceptions. Playing better is ussually what wins the lane. You aren't "supposed" to counter pick or anything if that's what you are worried about, you can easily just pick a good mid hero like QoP and play it every game. Basically, don't expect anything to go as it "should" go. It may happen, but often people don't really think about team comps or roles, they just play what they feel like it. So do your thing, help your team if you want, but don't expect to watch pro games and see the same game happening in pubs. Pubs are a diferent beast, treat them as such and you should be fine. On June 21 2013 10:00 Scrandom wrote: Can anyone give me a simple rundown on how Medusas ult works, I played spirit breaker against her yesterday and I swear even when I wasnt looking at her (which is how I seem to understand it works) I was getting slowed immensely. In short, you look at Medusa, you get slowed. If you keep looking at her for 2 seconds, you will turn to stone, being disabled and taking more physical damage and no magic damage. If you were always facing the other way, not looking at her, you shouldn't be slowed, but it doesn't need a direct eye contact or something, theres a viewing radius involved. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On June 21 2013 09:50 Feiya wrote: yesterday i asked you how to approach the game as a newcomer, thanks for the replies so far. I have a followup question. So far i played ~12hours of chaos knight and Luna in bot games. The way i approached LoL and did quite good until i quit recently was playing 4-5 champs and grinding rankeds with only them. In LoL it worked out, but i read in one of the threads here that for DotA this might not work and i should be playing every hero. So is it an okay approach taking a few heroes for different roles and try to get comfortable with them or will it hinder my learning curve to much compared to LoL where it was completely fine to stick to a very small champ pool. Another question i have is about choosing a lane. As far as im understanding there's not much jungling going on, at least not as a role itself. Is it usually going to be 2-1-2 in the pubs and is it usually 2 supports 2 carries? In LoL everyone kinda had their lane they wanted to play, but with 2-1-2 it feels a little bit more flexible and therefore harder to understand as a new player. Im not thinking about mid so far, i think there is a lot of counter picking going on which im not ready to get into yet. Will i need to be able to play some mid heroes or will i not be forced to go mid in pubs that often? thanks in advance. As a fellow newbie (and also one that used to LoL), but a couple hundred games down the road, allow me to offer my advice: Hero pool: League isn't at all the same as DotA, here. In League, you've got relatively clearly defined roles, such as "Ranged AD carry" that will go bottom every game and be coupled with a support. While there are some playstyle differences between the roles (I.E. a Caitlyn plays the lane differently than a Vayne would) most ranged carries hit roughly the same item timings and for the most part have their success in lane based on their farm, slightly optimized through "correct" item choices. A Miss Fortune with 7500 gold isn't worlds apart from an Ashe with the same. In DotA, these clearly defined roles don't exist. There are heroes that can be played more consistently than others, and there are heroes that are more versatile than others, but item choices and item timings are very largely determined by hero, not role. Antimage can be a position 1 hero that goes Battlefury as soon as possible and avoids fights in favour of farming, while Alchemist can be a position 1 hero that rushes a shadowblade to either splitpush safely or roam and pick off enemy farming heroes (Probably just a pub thing :D). Playing Luna and CK is fine, and if you don't know which lane to go to... go to one! Either people will yell at you and tell you to go to another lane (in which case, go there), or people will trust you and let you go to whatever lane, where you'll either do okay or get crushed and begin to learn why you can't do that. For example, high-level play says Luna can't mid. While that's true if you're always playing against competent mids or against teams that roam, very often in pubs it won't be true, so playing her mid if there's no other suitable choice on your team will let you see how EXP can be as important a resource as gold for luna in the early game, and start to see what mid looks like when it is won / lost, how to keep an eye on runes and rune timings and other useful habits for -wherever- you are in the game, even if you aren't playing mid. There's so much to learn about DotA that picking any impactful, consistent hero or set of heroes and playing just them for a dozen or two games isn't going to hurt you. In fact, playing a wide variety of heroes might slow you down, as you'll spend as much time worrying about your skill / item choices as you will what you're actually doing with them. That said, after a good ~25 games with the same heroes, start adding some Single Draft or All Random into your queue. OR lose to something (like a roaming Lion!) and then commit to playing it next game, if your teammates heroes' allow! Also pubs you can lane anything anywhere, because we're -effing BAD- :D Lanes, roles, lineup and jungling. First off, let's change mindset. In League, you'd commonly see solotop bruiser, solomid AP carry, support + adc bottom, and a jungler. Rather than just going "oh okay that sounds good", let's take a second to ask why. Back in the day, it used to be ADC going mid. They were recognized as an impactful role that needed gold and benefitted pretty greatly from levels. They were also typically equipped with skills that allowed you to make something happen in a game (via sivir's pushing power, tristana's push, gank, and burst, or ashe's gank). It made sense to stick an ADC mid, because they were very potent if given these resources, and mid was a relatively safe place to put them. ...except there was noone to ward for them, so they'd have to commit time and resources to warding. More and more commonly (I learned to HATE rammus) players would start to jungle and exploit a complete lack of / poor warding, so the game started to change to allow for this. ADC mid became less common, and instead offensive caster champions stepped into the lane, as people realized that they can play a little more cautious than an adc and benefit greatly from the exp available from a solo lane, then use that exp advantage to apply pressure elsewhere on the map. So ADC got pushed to bottom lane with a support, where they could get gold (very important to the role) and experience (slightly less important) with someone who only needed experience to be effective. The goal of this lane is to farm as much as possible for the adc so their impact later in the game is as big as possible. Then, with junglers taking advantage of the neutral resources and being an everpresent threat on the map, top was left to heroes that are typically defensive in nature that can survive and eek out whatever they can from the resources available at top. So a LoL lineup is set up to take advantage of as many resources on the map as possible, while being capable of pressuring an overly greedy lane if the need arises. Let's extend that same idea to DotA. You want to get the most out of your lanes. A LOT of this is in the draft, and because there are so many heroes that can do so many things in DotA, this can be challenging at best to sort out. You, first and foremost, need an idea of what hero needs what to be effective at the points in time they want to be effective. This also means you need to know what "role" a hero can realistically fill. Can you afford to put x hero in a lane where they won't get much experience, but will have a chance to get much gold? Can they "suicide lane" safely and get anything from it? x hero can jungle effectively, but do we have a hero capable of soloing offlane? This is why it is good to start diversifying your hero pool, and why to an extent it's good to have a handful of games on every hero. Without that knowledge, you won't come to know as easily whether or not bloodseeker can solo the offlane against a lone druid, or if you can actually make a luna / alchemist / maiden trilane work. The 2 - 1 - 2 you'll see in pubs probably isn't the most effective way to lane your lineup, but as we're all nubs, lineup is virtually never well thought out, and 2 - 1 - 2 is a safe and consistent way to lane, while probably not the most efficient. Try, if someone picks a jungle hero (and I refuse to believe you don't get instalock furions that go midas first) to grab someone you've seen offlane solo. Or, if you have a mid and someone who can offlane solo, coupled with a carry who can stun, pick an offensive trilane hero (Vengeful spirit, bane, lina, crystal maiden... basically anyone with a stun or hard cc!) and declare that bottom is an offensive trilane, and try go kill the SHIT out of their carry. As this is WELL beyond the realm of simple answer, I think I'll call it there. Tl;dr Play heroes ~25 times for gamesense, then single draft / all random. If you don't know if something works, try it. Learn from mistakes. gg. | ||
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Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
On June 21 2013 11:59 Staboteur wrote: TONS OF GOOD SHIT Tl;dr Play heroes ~25 times for gamesense, then single draft / all random. If you don't know if something works, try it. Learn from mistakes. gg. this post might look long but it's one of the best ones I've seen in the last hundred pages of this thread, if you're a new LoL player coming to Dota you should definitely take the time. If I could like this I would | ||
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Feiya
Germany42 Posts
nice insight into the evolving metagame of LoL, i started playing mid s2, so fun read. Thanks for the explanation of how laning will work in pubs, thats what i was looking for. I'll just play some more AI games for now and once im comfortable with shopping and the phases of the game i'll just go get flamed some in the pubs. One thing i realized is quite helpful is that i played a bit of HoN a while back. They literally copied every hero out of dota :D | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
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Feiya
Germany42 Posts
ahh, one more question. Can you suggest some streams that are more educative than others? I've got a lot of time on my hand during which i can't play so a streamer or two to look out for would be great. | ||
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Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
On June 21 2013 12:36 Firebolt145 wrote: They only copied a few actually, and many of those copies have minute changes here and there. During the early days of hon the vast majority were copies. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
On June 21 2013 14:37 Alur wrote: During the early days of hon the vast majority were copies. I'm aware, but that's hardly the case nowadays. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
Streams? Pick a hero you want to learn something about, type it in to the DotaTV thing, and watch someone play it. Streams closer to the top of the list are supposedly "higher level" play. Draskyl is a decent pubstomping not-pro streamer otherwise, but as with anyone he sometimes does strange shit (Mask of Madness Drow Ranger / Sniper, for example) that only works if you play exactly to that style and know what you're up against well enough to make it work... so his stream would be good for ideas, but it's probably still best to pub yourself once you get a few of these ideas and see what they look like in practice. + Show Spoiler + 'n I played League from just before Akali to just after Hecarim. It was fun to watch the metagame evolve, but it kinda seemed to... stop... so I got bored. DotA feels a hell of a lot deeper and more complex, it fascinates me :D | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On June 21 2013 17:03 Staboteur wrote: I missed the bot game part. Don't be scared of pubs! There's a mute function for flamers, or you can just be manly and shout back at them in capital letters. The standard level of skill is actually hilariously low... pretend you're jumping back into smurf games in LoL... because that's seriously about where the skill level is, but in an even more complicated game. When I started playing I picked the Beginner option (complete beginner, not sure what it was called now) at start. The first 50 or so games I played people were actually really friendly when they talked, albeit they were just silent for the most part. It wasn't until higher in matchmaking that the ragers started appearing, for me at least. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
On June 21 2013 15:51 Firebolt145 wrote: I'm aware, but that's hardly the case nowadays. Majority of the top competitive heroes are still dota ports though | ||
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LonelyCat
United Kingdom130 Posts
Why/when (if it ever could) can vanguard not be dissasembled? Edit: Also how can you pick which orb effect is active? I saw a pro game where a player had 2 orb effects (deso and ?) and could switch which was active somehow (presumably by dropping and picking up an item)? Is it the most recently picked up that is active? | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On June 21 2013 19:13 igotmyown wrote: What's the star icon next to (your) name when you see the waiting for players screen? I just assumed it was to indicate which one is you for quick referance. | ||
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