EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 491
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Looking at Sven, there are a couple things he needs for all his item needs to come together: - BKB (obvious) - Attack Speed (he gets a lot of free damage but he needs to pair it with attack speed to get high overall DPS) - Sustainability (either high regen or lifesteal) - (optionally) Crit His need for armor midgame is also far less than most other Strength carries due to Warcry. Considering the "normal" Strength carry options for these stats, it would mean that Sven would need to wait for 3-4 major items before all his itemization needs are satisfied (BKB + Heart/Satanic + AC + optional Crit). But this is way too late. Sven can't wait that long against a lot of better-scaling Agility carries. His power peak is actually midgame to early lategame, so his itemization needs to come together in that time. MoM basically pulls together the attack speed and sustainability demands into a single item. Obviously it's less effective than buying the separate major items, but its a lot cheaper. You can effectively have a rounded set of items at the point where you have 1.5-2.5 major items (BKB + MoM + optional crit), which is much more in line with your actual power curve. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On June 22 2013 04:16 Kmatt wrote: Is MoM really the way to go on Sven these days? I always looked at MoM like a cheesy item, an unreliable gimmick that's not sustainable in the long run, yet any Sven I play against goes MoM and facerolls, where as I'm always needing another item before I get bursted in fights Gotta get a wand because it's a wand Then I need boots because boots Gotta upgrade the boots because treads, 950 gold Now I have to get some attack speed, need an armlet/maelstrom, 2700 gold And magic immunity, bkb, back to jungle for another 4k gold while my team 4v5s And then I need lifesteal to outlast the other carry, another 1850 It seems like I have this never-ending shopping list that won't allow me to last more than 5 seconds without it, yet the MoM people just snowball their way to whatever their heart desires, like hearts. Am I just misinformed about MoM or do my opponents get kills faster then I can farm? To put it in perspective, I can go Antifun, grab a battlefury and farm a manta in the next 5 minutes of jungling/pushing, and then hop into fights and break faces, buying whatever else I need along the way, whereas anything short of 6-slotted, non MoM Sven just doesn't make the cut. People have already said a lot of relevant things, but I will add that it is because of God's Strength. Enemies will do more damage to you, sure, but you usually can outheal it with God's Strength. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On June 21 2013 23:40 LonelyCat wrote: In what scenario is vanguard better than the sum of its parts (or since we can't hold them, say PMS/vitbooster/roh) or do these scenarios not really exist? Which (if any heroes) is vanguard ever worth carrying in pubs? My experience is maybe clock if i can get it fast, or AM if my game has gone to shit, but otherwise nothing, but I play with friends who claim its a good pickup on spectre (and a couple more, dark seer for some reason they pick too...). I know Vanguard is decent on Bristleback when the enemy team has virtually no magic damage. Otherwise, it's best to get Hood. It seems that Vanguard is bad because it tries to combine the abilities to lane (HP regen) and straight up fighting (Health) and a Stout Shield to help farm jungle. So it seems that one of the only situations to get it is when you need to farm, but are forced to fight a lot. A perfect example is an Anti-Mage who is getting pressured heavily into team fighting early on. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Kirsed
9381 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 22 2013 10:45 kirsed wrote: Does astral spirit have other auras eg if I have vlads will the spirit have the vlads aura? No, it only carries Natural Order. | ||
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lazyitachi
1043 Posts
Items are : (B) denote bear Start: Tango, shield (B), oov Early: QB (B), ROP into tranquil, phase boots (B), magic wand Mid: Radiance (B), Maelstrom (B), AC (B) Late: Basher (B), Heart at level 24 transfer Radiance, basher, AC to hero ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/70tNnTM.jpg) | ||
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Kirsed
9381 Posts
OK thanks. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Double upgraded Boots is situational and hard to tell if you needed it for that game. Wand upgrade is pointless because your hero doesn't run out of slots early. The point of the wand upgrade is to convert items that take up 4 slots into 1 slot, but with Bear, your hero can carry Boots, TP, 3 branch, Stick. You aren't in need of slots so the Wand upgrade isn't worth the money. Maelstrom after Radiance is redundant. Radiance gives you all the farming power you need, so after that you should be buying items with pure combat efficiency (faster AC). After Radiance + AC, itemization varies a lot. While not optimal, if nobody on your team is buying Vlad's for you, you have to buy Vlad's for yourself. Generally you get 1 more damage item beyond this (Crit or MKB depending on whether the enemy team has Evasion) before Basher becomes relevant. Heart on your hero is overly expensive for survivability. Again, slots are not a concern and most big defensive items are cost-inefficient but slot-efficient. If you need more survivability on your hero you should focus on buying small, cost-efficient survivability items like Cloak and Ghost Scepter. You only mass-transfer items from your Bear to your hero if you have to fight a teamfight with one Bear summon on CD. Your bear remains your primary DPS through the entire game, and even if you get to ultra-lategame where you're working toward 12 items, the bear's items aren't even appropriate on your hero because your hero wants items that give Str/Agi (e.g. Butterfly) not the raw stat items the Bear uses. | ||
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lazyitachi
1043 Posts
On June 22 2013 12:25 TheYango wrote: QB on bear is totally unnecessary and not that efficient. You should never need it to lasthit if you can line up your Bear+Hero lasthits. Furthermore, because the bear has no Str/Agi/Intel, it has no base stat growth, the % damage increase vs creeps is not significant (% damage multipliers only multiply base damage + stat-based damage--raw damage from items like Phase Boots or Sacred Relic is not multiplied). Double upgraded Boots is situational and hard to tell if you needed it for that game. Wand upgrade is pointless because your hero doesn't run out of slots early. The point of the wand upgrade is to convert items that take up 4 slots into 1 slot, but with Bear, your hero can carry Boots, TP, 3 branch, Stick. You aren't in need of slots so the Wand upgrade isn't worth the money. Maelstrom after Radiance is redundant. Radiance gives you all the farming power you need, so after that you should be buying items with pure combat efficiency (faster AC). After Radiance + AC, itemization varies a lot. While not optimal, if nobody on your team is buying Vlad's for you, you have to buy Vlad's for yourself. Generally you get 1 more damage item beyond this (Crit or MKB depending on whether the enemy team has Evasion) before Basher becomes relevant. Heart on your hero is overly expensive for survivability. Again, slots are not a concern and most big defensive items are cost-inefficient but slot-efficient. If you need more survivability on your hero you should focus on buying small, cost-efficient survivability items like Cloak and Ghost Scepter. You only mass-transfer items from your Bear to your hero if you have to fight a teamfight with one Bear summon on CD. Your bear remains your primary DPS through the entire game, and even if you get to ultra-lategame where you're working toward 12 items, the bear's items aren't even appropriate on your hero because your hero wants items that give Str/Agi (e.g. Butterfly) not the raw stat items the Bear uses. Ok. So from this I gather: 1) No QB instead use hero/ bear last hitting together 2) Rush radiance instead of double upgraded boots if doable 3) Maelstrom redundant if radiance is up instead go for AC 4) Vlads if no one else getting 5) Get cloak/ ghost on hero instead of heart -> True! They do have lots of burst at times, I was dying too fast 6) Transfer item if bear is on CD. Else keep on bear as main DPS. Should use Str/ Agi items on hero Thanks Yango! I'll try bear again (someday) following that line of thought.  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On June 21 2013 23:40 LonelyCat wrote:Also how can you pick which orb effect is active? I saw a pro game where a player had 2 orb effects (deso and ?) and could switch which was active somehow (presumably by dropping and picking up an item)? Is it the most recently picked up that is active? To expand on this, some orbs pseudo-stack. The best example of this is deso on weaver. Weaver's orb is a conditional orb - it only overrides deso when it procs. It just so happens that the first attack from weaver still applies the debuff of deso, so the second attack still benefits from the -armour. This is almost true for deso + mael/mjoll - since deos lasts fro 13 seconds, it only needs to be applied once for quite a while. Meanwhile, lightning procs can happen during the debuff. It doesn't fully stack since there is a chance that the first couple of hits may proc lightning, but it still stacks pretty well. Another possibility was that he wanted one of the orbs because of the stats it gave. He may have wanted MoM for the attack speed, but didn't care for the lifesteal so got deso. On June 22 2013 00:49 evilfatsh1t wrote:Don't listen to everyone always giving vanguard shit about how bad the item is. It used to be a popular pick up and for good reason, it did its job. The problem isn't so much with vanguard as with new alternatives (especially drum). | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
thanks man! | ||
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LonelyCat
United Kingdom130 Posts
On June 22 2013 22:08 PassiveAce wrote: yeah I just was wondering if the mana damage from cogs was reduced, i figured that diffusal and am's burn had hp damage reduced. thanks man! I don't think it affects (at least) am burn since the damage is physical (hence it works with vlads). | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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