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On June 15 2013 05:20 WuzzupPeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 03:54 Sn0_Man wrote:
Personally I think its just a case of small sample size. This. It's actually a lot better to run an aggressive trilane as the radiant since you have access to that hard camp you can pull/deny creeps for some additional xp to your supports to prevent falling behind too much.
Its a lot easier to block radiant's pull though. It takes multiple sentries to be guaranteed a deward (used to be 2, someone said 4 with the new sentry range but idk if that's accurate). I think that's a bigger deal than pulling your own creepwave into a sorta dangerous situation (sometimes its useful though).
Bottom dire is also closer ancients, so if there is a hero that can clear stacked ancients then supports can stack them easier in the down time.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On June 15 2013 10:47 Verror wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 22:48 TheYango wrote:On June 14 2013 10:02 Jotoco wrote:
I always start as hard 5th position, buying Courier + Ward + Gauntlet + tango. Depending on who is on my team (if they need mana level 1 or no) I skill aura or slow. Nowadays after the aura buff I usually put 1 point in it till level 7 or so, depending if my team needs more or less mana, and I usually leave it at 3 now, only putting the 4th point after finishing the rest. I usually skill slow over the disable as well, as it deals more damage and has a lot longer range.
You pretty much never should be starting with a Gauntlet on supports. Three branches is virtually the same cost, and gives strictly better stats. The fact that a Gauntlet saves a slot and builds into Bracer doesn't matter here because if you're not making a Wand as a support, you're doing something wrong. The only time you should be able to afford buying a Gauntlet at the start as a support is if you have random gold, and even then, it's considered quite selfish given the number of other things you can and should buy for the team (Sentry, Smoke, Courier upgrade). Not making wand as a support, you're doing something wrong? I love you (<3) for your often and super helpful responses, but I'm not sure about this, especially if you're going to be getting some jungle pull farm and building urn. Even more-so if you have a friendly other support so you don't need to get wards+courier off the bat. You cant buy 4 branches with a Tango, Salve and Clarity. And you might not even have been building a wand!
GG branches are the most cost efficient stats in the game. The more of them you can fit into your inventory, the better. Unless you will be selling the stick soon due to lack of inventory space (very unlikely for a support) you should almost always upgrade to a wand.
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Alright, I really need some help clarifying things. My one friend (from earlier posts, played a lot of WC3 dota, stopped for a few years and then started Dota2) and I have a lot of disagreements on things, but this most recent game really struck me. Can someone give input on a few statements?
-Tusk is not a mid hero
-Even if he does go mid, he is low enough on the totem pole to be expected to play hard support (we had a Puck[him] and batrider) and buy his own wards, as well as ward for the rest of the team and buy dust, etc.
-Lifestealer is exclusively a jungler, no place in a lane except for maybe defensive trilane which is still not as worthwhile as jungle
-Furion should never use global TP to gank, it's stupid and takes way from farm
There are a few others but those are the ones that really make me question the validity
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On June 15 2013 11:10 Kmatt wrote:
Alright, I really need some help clarifying things. My one friend (from earlier posts, played a lot of WC3 dota, stopped for a few years and then started Dota2) and I have a lot of disagreements on things, but this most recent game really struck me. Can someone give input on a few statements?
-Tusk is not a mid hero
-Even if he does go mid, he is low enough on the totem pole to be expected to play hard support (we had a Puck[him] and batrider) and buy his own wards, as well as ward for the rest of the team and buy dust, etc.
-Lifestealer is exclusively a jungler, no place in a lane except for maybe defensive trilane which is still not as worthwhile as jungle
-Furion should never use global TP to gank, it's stupid and takes way from farm
There are a few others but those are the ones that really make me question the validity
-Tusk can be played middle perfectly fine, he's not exactly an amazing safe laner anyway.
-Hard support tusk? Tusk is a snowball hero(hehe) and he hits his peak around level 11-13 with Phase+Drums going into Sblade. Not a hard support. I think I misunderstood this question otherwise.
-Lifestealer can safelane or offensive tri just fine. With the range nerf on Opening Wounds, he'll need a setup slow or stun to get in range, but still viable imo.
- This is the worst statement out of all of them. A good Furion should be using globals around the map to set up ganks, to teleport to runes and take them if middle cannot control, snipe couriers, etc etc. You only need a Shadowblade + Orchid combo to start running a muck all over the map, plenty of leeway to help your teammates.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Tusk can mid with bottle crowing.
Wat. No.
Lifestealer is better in lane than in the jungle.
This is stupid.
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Okay so I'm not crazy. He seems to have bouts of solid advice and weird stints of stuff like that.
Oh, and the other I forgot to mention was that Brood going for orchid as her first core (after soul ring and boots, maybe a wand)
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Orchid first brood is a good option when you don't need to rush BKB or Manta, and when you're against mobility heroes such as AM/Storm/etc.
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On June 15 2013 11:30 Firebolt145 wrote:
Orchid first brood is a good option when you don't need to rush BKB or Manta, and when you're against mobility heroes such as AM/Storm/etc.
That's what I would assume, since they had a very slippery Clinkz who always seemed to slip away before I could land the kill. I'll just have to bring some salt with me next time we play.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Honestly, if some of the advice he's been giving you is as poor as the examples you posted, you should probably double check everything he's ever told you here, heh.
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Yeah, I think it might just be that he's used to an old-school Russian style of play. But on the bright side, I won the rare headpiece for the new Crystal Maiden set, so the game was 5 stars, ggvalve :D
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I've actually heard good things about tuskar support. Often he is played as a ganker/semi in mid, but my friend has had some decent success playing him as a support who uses snowball to initiate ganks for other people (for context, my friend and I's favourite lane is naga support + lina carry, so not necessarily... normal setups from us).
At least, I personally would give it a go rather than having puck support -.-
Anyway, back from the realm of speculation, naix is a kinda inefficient jungler. He can jungle, but if you can get a decent lane where you are able to farm a decent amount without screwing up the other lanes, then that's better than jungling.
And orchid brood is quite normal. Generally orchid lets you solo kill better, which means that when you split push with your team, it makes it much harder to stop you, possibly meaning that the other team has to dedicate 2 people to stop you (letting your team win the 4v3, or letting you get a kill then pushing if they send 1, or letting you push if they don't send anyone). Other options are BKB for when you need to get together with the rest of your team, and manta for an in-between option with a lot of utility (such as letting you dispel things like track and dust).
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
I'm not saying that Tusk can't support. I'm saying that a solo mid Tusk shouldn't automatically be relegated to being hard support 'just because he's Tusk'. That's pretty silly; he's in the midlane, so he should be expected to farm items and help control the tempo of the midgame, just like any good mid hero should.
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I didn't read the statement/question/thing properly (basically read it as "who should mid? tusk bat or puck?"). Now I understand why the reactions seemed a little hostile towards support tusk  .
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United States47024 Posts
Tusk is a lot like Nyx in terms of farm priority and general tempo. Good as a mid ganker, decent as a 4th position ganking support, not all that appealing as a "hard" 5th position support.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Eh I'd take nyx over tusk as a support any day.
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Nyx can roam and get kills at level 1-2, nyx is a melee impale until level 6.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 15 2013 13:41 Firebolt145 wrote:
Eh I'd take nyx over tusk as a support any day.
The fact that Nyx is a better hero than Tusk does not make Tusk less suitable for the 4th position gank role.
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Why 1 tango and 1 salve instead of 2 tango? I'm cheap and always get my sapphire water dispelled so i always get 2 tango... Does that make me bad?
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Salve heals more and is faster. Tango won't be dispelled and will keep you at high hp.
If your opponent only has tangos, you trade hits heavily and heal back to full with a salve, while he'll be stuck for awhile at lower hp regenerating.
If your opponent only has a salve, you can away a little so his salve won't heal the full amount, so he'll either have to stay at partial health or waste a salve compared to only 1 of 3 tangos.
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For what it's worth, Navi's successfully played Tusk as a 4 position before. His skill set is actually quite good independent of items and even levels to a certain extent.
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EPT
