EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 464
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FreeZer
Sweden288 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
The top rated in-game build is to go 1xTango 3xBranches into bottle, then threads, then linkens and scythe as core. The top rated guide on playdota is to start with 1xTango, 1xSalve, 2xMantle of Int and 2xBranches, into threads then rushing either scythe or linkens, possibly picking up a bottle. I like both builds, the rushed bottle lets you be quite aggressive while the 2xMantle start gives a nice advantage in lasthitting early and skipping the bottle lets you get a very early void stone, letting you rush scythe or linkens faster. What do you prefer and how do you feel about rushing scythe vs linkens? Some benchmark times to get items would be sweet as well. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Skipping bottle is silly, you have blink so you have better rune control, so skipping an item that will be useful from minute 2 on (and gives you nonstop healing from bottle crowing) to rush an item that will come online at minute 15-20+, you don't think 13-18 minutes of utility is worth it? BKB is good if you're team fighting. Hex is always good. Orchid is good if you're dealing with a hero that you need to lock down. Agh is only good if you're stalling pushes. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On May 30 2013 20:09 Tobberoth wrote: Guys, what is your opinion on how to build Queen of Pain? I'm planning to start playing her a bit but I haven't decided how I want to build her. The top rated in-game build is to go 1xTango 3xBranches into bottle, then threads, then linkens and scythe as core. The top rated guide on playdota is to start with 1xTango, 1xSalve, 2xMantle of Int and 2xBranches, into threads then rushing either scythe or linkens, possibly picking up a bottle. I like both builds, the rushed bottle lets you be quite aggressive while the 2xMantle start gives a nice advantage in lasthitting early and skipping the bottle lets you get a very early void stone, letting you rush scythe or linkens faster. What do you prefer and how do you feel about rushing scythe vs linkens? Some benchmark times to get items would be sweet as well. For starting items you can't go wrong with 3 branches, tango, salve, circlet/mantle. The goal being to outlasthit your opponent early and/or harass him out of lane with dagger+autoattacks. Skipping Bottle makes no sense whatsoever. Benchmark times are hard to tell because a lot depends on the game. The best benchmark I can think of is that there are 82 cs to farm in the first 10 minutes, unless you're ganking all over the place (and getting kills) that should give you an idea how many you're missing. In almost all cases your first big item should be BKB (teamfight NAOW), Orchid (lanes didn't break up yet and I'm pwning those people all over the place), or Sheep (kind of a middleground). Linkens should only be considered when you really, really need the spellblock. If you want an Aghanims it's usually gotten a bit later nowadays, ideally you want to have it around your level 16. While it's almost never bad to build a BKB/Sheep an Orchid that isn't your first item should be gotten because you really need the active (e.g. against a Puck, Storm or AM), otherwise it's a bit awkward to get later on because its biggest strength lies in getting solo pickoffs. A build that sits on e.g. BKB/Orchid/Sheep can be rounded out towards stronger autoattacks towards lategame (Mjollnir, MKB, Skadi) or more teamfighting (e.g. Shivas, Aghs, Necro). Just keep in mind that Linkens should almost never be gotten because you want the stats, but mostly because you want the spellblock. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
However cookie cutter doesn't always cut it in Dota 2. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On May 30 2013 18:14 BobMcJohnson wrote: Having recently started playing (and having played a fair bit of LoL) I'm still a bit lost when it comes to items. I'd really like to get a better grasp on item builds, because I often find that the recommended items or in-game guides really weird sometimes. Are there any "noob trap" items that I should avoid buying, or at the contrary ones that are generally good and that I can safely buy when I'm in doubt? Vanguard and linken's. Valve loves them both. Valve is wrong 99% of the time. Oh, and Vlads. If you're not sure if you should get vlads, don't get vlads. In general, i feel like any of the farming oriented items (that is, linken's, battle fury, radiance and Midas) need to be thought about carefully before being picked up. If you buy one, you need to be in a situation where you can actually use it to farm for the next 5-10 minutes. If you buy one while the enemy is in your face and you can't get near a creep, you would have been better off with an item that could help you get them out of your face first. You also need to make sure you're a hero who actually should be farming for that period, instead of helping get the bad guys out of someone else's face. Another mistake I made (and still make) a lot is getting tunnel-vision on some big item that I can't reasonably attain. These are often one of the farming pieces. If you really, desperately want a radiance and keep dying short of the 3800 for relic, maybe it's a better choice to give up and just get yasha and drums or something. Your team will probably thank you for it, and you'll stop being totally useless. Safe items vary more depending on your hero, but drums of endurance is pretty much never a bad pickup. Yasha is cheap and safe on pretty much any agi carry. If you're support, wards, wards and more wards. | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
What should I build instead when looking for more survivability? | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On May 30 2013 23:40 BobMcJohnson wrote: Thanks for the answers! I was actually building Vanguards quite often when starting Stout Shield :< What should I build instead when looking for more survivability? Drums or just a vit booster | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
okay. I think I may be overbuilding hp items, because I often went things like drums+vanguards+another str item after that. I always feel like i'm squishy as fuck, so I guess I'm taking more damage than I should due to bad play :< I'll try building more damage/utility, less hp/regen and playing safer. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On May 30 2013 23:54 BobMcJohnson wrote: okay. I think I may be overbuilding hp items, because I often went things like drums+vanguards+another str item after that. I always feel like i'm squishy as fuck, so I guess I'm taking more damage than I should due to bad play :< I'll try building more damage/utility, less hp/regen and playing safer. Seems you need to work on positioning and/or map awareness , will help you take less damage | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On May 30 2013 23:40 BobMcJohnson wrote: Thanks for the answers! I was actually building Vanguards quite often when starting Stout Shield :< What should I build instead when looking for more survivability? Depends on the hero, pretty much any hero who would ever go for a vanguard does better in just getting drums or a vitality booster which can later be built into a heart. For an int hero, it's usually not a big priority to build survivability, but that vit booster could go into a rod of athos or a bloodstone. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On May 30 2013 23:40 BobMcJohnson wrote: Thanks for the answers! I was actually building Vanguards quite often when starting Stout Shield :< What should I build instead when looking for more survivability? It's very hero specific. Melee agility heroes (ie many common carries) will benefit from early Poor Man's Shield a lot more than Vanguards for the price. Many supports end up getting Ghost Scepter in the later stages for protection against right click damage that can melt them in a second. Force Staff or Blink are good on a number of heroes and can help with the positioning, which is a very common cause of untimely deaths. BKB will prevent you from being perma-disabled and/or insta-nuked if you're the team's initiatior or main source of damage. Some heroes have built in survivability mechanisms and don't really need to emphasize that in item builds. | ||
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Ryrmidon
Canada371 Posts
On May 30 2013 20:09 Tobberoth wrote: Guys, what is your opinion on how to build Queen of Pain? I'm planning to start playing her a bit but I haven't decided how I want to build her. The top rated in-game build is to go 1xTango 3xBranches into bottle, then threads, then linkens and scythe as core. The top rated guide on playdota is to start with 1xTango, 1xSalve, 2xMantle of Int and 2xBranches, into threads then rushing either scythe or linkens, possibly picking up a bottle. I like both builds, the rushed bottle lets you be quite aggressive while the 2xMantle start gives a nice advantage in lasthitting early and skipping the bottle lets you get a very early void stone, letting you rush scythe or linkens faster. What do you prefer and how do you feel about rushing scythe vs linkens? Some benchmark times to get items would be sweet as well. Thinking of item builds as rigidly as youre doing is a mistake. Item builds are highly situational and depend upon factors that change game to game. Who youre laning vs, what lane youre in, what your team composition is, what heroes youre facing, what your strategy is, and how much farm you have to work with all heavily influence your item choices. For your starting items you want enough regen to protect you until you get a bottle, and enough stats to comfortably contest last hits. You want to have a bottle in your possesion before 2 minutes, so you ll usually save ~150 of your starting gold. Both starting items you listed are viable. You can skip the mantles if youre confident in your last hitting, but its recommended you get them laning vs heroes with high base damage. QoP builds treads almost exclusively. You dont need need the regen of tranquils, your mana pool + bottle is enough to make mana boots redundant, and with blink u dont need the mobility of phase boots. After that, Orchid, Sheep, Linkens, BKB, Aghs, etc are all viable. Orchid offers you great stats, the active synergizes well with your burst damage, and the silence can cripple some heroes. However its important to consider that BKB and manta both dispell it. If you cant get orchid quickly (20 -25 minutes), then its use diminishes as more BKBs are in play. Some team compositions will require you gunning down the frontline carries rather than chasing after supports, in which case scythe is more useful as it prevents items from being used. Linkens is a more defensive item in nature, and generally reserved for split push strategies where you wont be taking many large fights. Its pretty uncommon but can work in some cases. BKB is a purely teamfight oriented item, and the time at which you purchase it is usually when you start taking bigger fights. Its perfectly viable to buy it as anything from your first to even your 4th or 5th item depending on the game. Theres a lot of team compositions youll be facing where you simply cant fight without a BKB. Silences like night Nightstalkers or pucks, or heavy disablers in partiular hurt queen of pain | ||
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Deckard_Cain
493 Posts
I went for Radiance, MKB and Eaglesong but also Linkens, BKB and others (Vanguard, Heaven's Halberd, etc) would not have saved me. Question: Is there anything I could have done (despite my team buying ForceStaff, etc)? I tried to get Butterfly for evasion but didn't get there. Additional question: Can one activate BladeMail while being chronosphered? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
QoP builds treads almost exclusively. You dont need need the regen of tranquils, your mana pool + bottle is enough to make mana boots redundant, and with blink u dont need the mobility of phase boots. Tranquil and Arcanes are actually both situationally useful on QoP (though Tranquils is a lot worse now that it's nerfed). Arcanes QoP is very powerful early game but drops off very quickly as the extra mana becomes superfluous with your 2nd or 3rd major item. Tranquils was a choice for sidelane QoP as an alternative regen source when you otherwise would not buy a regen item and it was smoother to buy than anything else. But yes, QoP items are insanely situational. Don't stick to a cookie-cutter build. Try everything, question everything, and constantly think about what items are good when. On May 31 2013 01:42 Deckard_Cain wrote: I have a general question about having to face Chronosphere. I played Weaver on pub earlier on and had really decent LH with 43/21 after ten minutes and also two kills on bot lane on dire site. But when the game progressed and FacelessVoid had MoM and Daedalus and level three Chronosphere he just time walked from outsight my vision, used chrono and instakilled me, without me having a singular chance of surviving. I went for Radiance, MKB and Eaglesong but also Linkens, BKB and others (Vanguard, Heaven's Halberd, etc) would not have saved me. Question: Is there anything I could have done (despite my team buying ForceStaff, etc)? I tried to get Butterfly for evasion but didn't get there. Additional question: Can one activate BladeMail while being chronosphered? Evasion is disabled in Chronosphere anyway. The best item choice to survive Chronosphere is Heart. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On May 31 2013 02:54 TheSubtleArt wrote: Will Drums still be worth buying as often as they are now after the patch? The cost has increased by 50, it changes nothing | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
Also as yango said, chrono disables evasion and ignores BKB so your best bet of surviving is building raw hp or your team having a halbeard ready | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
If the FV rushes MoM and Daedalus for example, then a good disable and follow-up gank will leave him high and dry every time. If he goes a more standard build like Bfury, Yasha, BKB you force him to waste a BKB charge and go for the kill or run away. Bait yourself with teammates, or just insist on them backing you up every time you go out to farm. | ||
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