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Hey guys!
So lately It happened to be that I played a lot with the same guys, meaning we played as a 5-stack. Since we won a lot we are now playing very high rated games and of course the opponents get better! Challenge accepted! :wink:
We were kind of fooling around with different tactics. One of them was the Trilane, either offensive or defensive.
The Game
So the last game yesterday was us playing The Radient with Undying, Panda, KotL top // tide solo mid // me as lone druid bot against The Dire with AM, SD top // bat mid // cent, shaman bot (shaman rotated top after like 12min).
The Replay
If somebody wants to check the replay in order to help us see what we have done wrong, the ID is "92810411". Of course individual skill is a point of discussion but I wouldn't rate it too high for now. It's nothing we can change over night but something we have to keep practicing on.
The mistakes I found
- no warding top. (!!! wtf i never checked top as i was concentrating on farming bot, usually those guys on the trilane know how to play, dont ask me why they didnt set up wards, maybe they just forgot).
First it would have helped to prevent the batrider ganging invis and killing 2 when they were low. Second they spend a lot of time in the woods troubling SD from pulling. If they would have had wards they could have either blocked the camp or see when the SD is there and just go in the right moment to kill him.
- wards for bot. batrider ganged me 2 times. how can me make sure we have vision bot? should a support from top leave the lane or should i place the wards myself? in addition you can say that my mapawareness was bad. batrider was missing for a long time before he ganged me for the first time. but my lonedruid play isn't that good yet, so I can't concentrate on laning vs 2, farm and the map :/
- Our offensive trilane top should have preassured the tower way more! They spent a lot of time trolling around in the woods, disturbing SD from pulling. But what they should have really done is spam waves to kill The Dire creepwaves and let panda farm. he had lower farm than AM! even thou it was 2v3. I think this wasn't a problem of individual skill but that they spent too much time in the woods instead on the lane. Especially when tidehunter had that lvl 6 we HAD to get the tower.
Because after all the sense of the top lane was to preassure so hard that we get the towergold and force the second guy on the bot lane to help defend top. That would have helped me to farm bot and win against cent. Because as you can see we didn't just lose the top lane but also the bot lane because my farm was bad and cent hard basically freefarm.
- TPs for the bot lane? I got ganged two times on the bot lane. It happened very quickly. So im not sure if TPs by 1-2 guys from top would have helped. Should they have tp'ed? Also should they stay top all the time or does it make sense for 1-2 of them to rotate bot at some point and gang? For the last point I think no because for like 2min AM has time to farm top and we don't want that.
- What about mid? Anything he could have done? Okay he had a pretty bad farm, but that's just individual skill I think. Even thou a batrider should win a lane against a tidehunter he should have had a little bit more farm.
Okay so as you could read I only really analyzed the early game. Because it was the problem. I never really got strong, we didn't get ANY towers (:uhoh and in the end AM was just too strong.
Also where can I find good VODs, guides, youtube videos on how to trilane? I don't even really know when to decide to go either for an offensive trilane or for a defensive?
I appreciate any help! It would be awesome if we can get some tips! Thanks.
Joestar aka Mike Litoris
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Right of the bat I can see that your team has no actual ranged lockdown in the trilane. Panda needs to get his clap going(aka walk up to a support and smash his face in) and the enemy can easily disengage from the tombstone.
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Skeleton King, Sven, VS
SK gets stun, then lifesteal (so he can pseudo jungle).
VS pulls, stacks, wards, etc.
Sven rapes
This is what my team did in shitty pub games, was awesome!
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390172
Maybe this thread (if you haven't read it) can help.. lol
I'm suddenly having an issue with writing tons of words, so basically after I read your conclusion above, you should have switched with Brewmaster (you go with the trilane, Brewmaster goes solo). What I'm trying to say is, you + your bear > AM. So you can basically shutdown his farming field for minutes while Undying&KoTL are able to harass the lane 'till dead. Brewmaster is a hero that somehow need tons of XP to rack up his level and will be able to clap everybody's head when he needs to.
You might be underleveled with LD if you decide to do the trilane, but with that kind of matchup, you will obviously outfarm everybody in the game.
Note: I'm not that good at practicing what I have said A___A
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Replying because that is some TL quality OP Cant watch the replay now but ill throw in some quick thoughts after reading your OP. Let me know if you insisted that I should watch the replay xD
First of all, i know this is strange but the mid hero decides alot of things in a game, due to the nature of Tide mid, you cannot expect domination on mid lane and you cannot expect effective ganking from him. They could happen but you can't expect that.
So this leads to 'what is the goal' of your other lanes. You NEED to own at least one lane very hard, be it very quick towers push or lots of early kills or at the very least you want to make sure their carry has 0 farm (these are the core factors you run a trilane in the first place anyway). And that is very hard to achieve when you do 1v2 with bear. Not that it is impossible but it is very hard against decent players.
So everything relies on your trilane.
Undy+Eza+Panda. A very very high skilled trilane which requires you to play it very specifically and almost cannot make any mistake, ie. bad trilane if your team is not experienced enough.
The major problem with this trilane is that you have no disable/initiator to do any combo, pick a range stunner or something to allow your panda to get close. The only way i see for your trilane to work is:
1) pick 'better' or easier trilane
2) Find a way to get levels for three of you (make kills with eza wave by relying on the opponent to make mistakes, kill your/their (stack) creeps) and then do mad push, you can even go cut their creep (go behind their t1) with eza gets to lvl2 illuminate+tombstone.
3) many other special tactics depend on the situation, such as flying a support to mid/bot gank etc etc.
Or your mates simply not used to running a trilane, the core idea of a trilane is to totally fck up the opponent/s on that lane (getting 0 exp and 0 farm) and if you failed you are in a big trouble unless you found someway to comeback/compensate your mistake.
+ Show Spoiler +Tell your support friends have a look of my support guide to see if that helps.
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bad draft gg no re.
on topic though, you usually want to be able to either get pick offs or shut down the opposing carry really hard in your aggressive tri- lane because if you had opted for a defensive one, your supports would have the option to pull creeps and thus gain levels.
You can still pull creeps in an offensive tri lane but it's more risky should mid come gank.
Your tri lane did none of the above. + their low levels make it very hard for you to carry them.
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typical trilane vs trilane, more stuns you have more winning. of course having a undying is good too.
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First mistake of your trilane: No ranged disable. Your trilane is posing no threat to neither AM or SD while you give up farms.
-Undying should have max Tombstones first because Decay is more spammable at low level.
- Kotl has to level his Chakra magic to accommodate Undying's decay. If he has maxed illuminate first, SD or AM may not be able to stay in lane after getting hit by illuminate. Max illuminate hit like a freight truck at early game. Kotl also did not put down his wards for a long time.
Your group needs to step up on the wards duty at early game. At 20 min mark, Kotl is over-warding.
After that, the opponent got Mek before your team. Your team cant gank AM. LoneDruid is hell-bent on Radiance. Game is lost.
I am still debating on whether Panda rushing Scepter is a good item choice or not.
At 25 min mark, their team has both pipe and mek while your team has none.
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EPT
