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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
My question is what Agility heroes are great to pick and why ? I want to learn all the Agility heroes for competitive play. Antimage, Luna, Bounty Hunter, Naga, Gyro and Lone Druid are some of the recent ones I've seen so far. Why would you pick them ? Or if you wouldn't what Agility heroes would you pick? Edit - I'm looking for Hard carries and semi carries, like Void etc. | ||
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BAAEEMM
Germany412 Posts
 Of course their main attribute has an impact on the hero's nature but I really wouldn't recommend picking heroes in CM after that criterium. More importantly you normally have a overall strategy in mind (e.g. taking early towers or a good team fight in the mid game or turtling and taking it super late with a hard carry) and then pick the heroes after how well you can use them for that strategy (that includes their general roles like carry, ganker, support, their synergy with each other and a lot more) and of course the picks of your opponents. For the heroes you listed: Anti-Mage: Your classic goto agi hard carry. Very squishy early on but has a good escape. Usually only comes online after battlefury + another item. Can splitpush better than for example Void and will outcarry most other heroes with a few exceptions. So pick him if you want to take it late + are going for a splitpush heavy style. Luna: Also a carry though more flexible (you can also take her aggressive trilane or even solo mid depending on the other team). Can participate earlier in team fights than AM (esp. with Tranquils/Aquila/Drums-Build) while still being able to scale quite well into the late game. Bounty Hunter: Usually picked up as solo offlaner. He has a built-in invisibility and good burst which makes him a very good ganker. Naga: Not really picked for competitive play anymore. Occasional pickups are more or less only for her ulti. Gyro: Very versatile. You can use him as a carry or as a solo mid or even as a support in a trilane. Lone Druid: Carry with a very robust laning phase (can solo safelane/mid/offlane) that is good for pushing down towers early and is a staple in competitive play. He is probably the most tanky agi carry early on, and depending on the items he gets, can both scale well into the late game (12 item slots^^) and dish out a lot of physical damage early on (esp. with the recently more popular Maelstrom- or Armlet-Builds). In general, you should probably just search for guides for each hero or watch professional vods/replays where the hero is used. The guides usually include a section about when to (not) pick them and what their general role can be. Then you only have to open a thread when you have a more concrete problem like "How do i counter-pick X hero?" or "How could I lane that lineup?" etc. There's also the Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread for quick questions.  I hope I could help. Cheers  | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
Phantom Lancer - KING AGILITY HIMSELF. Once he gets some levels he can push lanes, farm jungle, and do 100 other things at once. Very hard to shut down, better off never letting him get to the point of having items. Late game is normally centered around having a Diffusal, Manta and Heart. Can do stuff earlier on with drums and diffusal, or just be sneaky and lance when enemies are running away. Jugg - Healing Ward can really help in pushing line ups Morph - Not really picked anymore but he can carry, probably one of the harder heroes to understand with his stat morphing. Just a quick attacker TA - decent mid, can gank really well with traps (traps can also be used to see rune spawns), learn to offensive meld and exploit moments when your lane opponent is weak (which psi blades should do) Gondar (BH) - Not picked as much now that Track no longer reduces armor, still picked occasionally though. Can offlane into roam SF - Strong mid provided he gets off to a decent start early, his attack damage is very low early on till he gains souls through the skill Necromastery. With a desolator and some levels he destroys enemys armor so takes big chunks from their HP Clinkz - With an Orchid Staff (silence effect) he can roam and solo kill squishy heroes with ease, normally run offlane. Empire tends to run a classic clinkz if you want an example Nyx - Nyx Nyx Nyx Nyx (Can solo kill INT supports, can be run solo mid or support) Weaver - Weaver's picked occasionally, typically run offlane, not much to say really | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On April 01 2013 23:55 ReignSupreme. wrote: Morph - Not really picked anymore but he can carry, probably one of the harder heroes to understand with his stat morphing. Just a quick attacker You mean king of bullshit, farms all game and shows up to teamfights instantly, ungankable and unkillable, instagibs supports. OT: venomancer and vengeful spirit are great AGI heroes to learn to play especially in trilanes as you mentioned | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
What carry heroes would you pick and when would you pick them? That requires delving pretty deep into drafting strategies, metagame and general balance BUUUUUUT here goes: Right now luna and gyro are the popular ranged carries largely because they have a "splash" mechanic (and also because they both offer solid midgame teamfights with their ulti's and other damage ablilites). Luna is especially prized for her aura that allows you to make early 5-man pushes and simply out-right-click your opponents (plus wreck towers if you have 5 people attacking them). Gyro is very strong if you let him farm (with rapier he is really strong), and is also very strong if you force him to teamfight. For melee carries, Lifestealer is one of the most popular right now (although he is a strength hero), in large part because he can gank and teamfight decently safely with a modicum of farm (Phase/drums plus or minus an armlet). His damage output is always decent (if exclusively single-target) and his ability to shrug off most disables forces your opponents to pick or build differently than they might like. Lifestealer also lanes very well with most popular laning partners (including heroes like Leshrac who need a bit of help to land their stuns). Beyond that, Anti-mage is a very reliable pick for his ability to farm once he achieves battle-fury, but the style of game that he forces you to play is somewhat unpopular at the competitive level (4 heroes "doing shit" while anti-mage farms as fast as he can). CK is another strength melee carry that sees some play, but almost exclusively in the company of a wisp support since CK has quite a few glaring issues that need solving before he is good. First off, his mana pool is atrocious (really at all levels he blows through mana like there is no tomorrow). Additionally, his stun is highly unreliable in terms of sufficient duration and its slow travel time makes it vulnerable to a variety of disjoints. Wisp's tether stun (guaranteed by realilty rift) combined with global mobility and ability to share regen enables CK to eschew farming (something he is bad at) in favour of ganking (something he is good at) without having to go back to the well too often and with a much higher success rate than he would have solo. AFAIK those are the somewhat common carries these days, although I haven't been able to watch as much dota as I'd like. While most of these picks are definitively better in different circumstances, all are viable enough that establishing your own style and getting comfortable with certain ones is probably better than picking what some pro would. Like, even if your opponents can't really deal with a well-played AM, if you can't play AM well then picking him is still not good. | ||
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BAAEEMM
Germany412 Posts
On April 02 2013 06:53 Sn0_Man wrote: So, the question you have is more: What carry heroes would you pick and when would you pick them? That requires delving pretty deep into drafting strategies, metagame and general balance BUUUUUUT here goes: Right now luna and gyro are the popular ranged carries largely because they have a "splash" mechanic (and also because they both offer solid midgame teamfights with their ulti's and other damage ablilites). Luna is especially prized for her aura that allows you to make early 5-man pushes and simply out-right-click your opponents (plus wreck towers if you have 5 people attacking them). Gyro is very strong if you let him farm (with rapier he is really strong), and is also very strong if you force him to teamfight. For melee carries, Lifestealer is one of the most popular right now (although he is a strength hero), in large part because he can gank and teamfight decently safely with a modicum of farm (Phase/drums plus or minus an armlet). His damage output is always decent (if exclusively single-target) and his ability to shrug off most disables forces your opponents to pick or build differently than they might like. Lifestealer also lanes very well with most popular laning partners (including heroes like Leshrac who need a bit of help to land their stuns). Beyond that, Anti-mage is a very reliable pick for his ability to farm once he achieves battle-fury, but the style of game that he forces you to play is somewhat unpopular at the competitive level (4 heroes "doing shit" while anti-mage farms as fast as he can). CK is another strength melee carry that sees some play, but almost exclusively in the company of a wisp support since CK has quite a few glaring issues that need solving before he is good. First off, his mana pool is atrocious (really at all levels he blows through mana like there is no tomorrow). Additionally, his stun is highly unreliable in terms of sufficient duration and its slow travel time makes it vulnerable to a variety of disjoints. Wisp's tether stun (guaranteed by realilty rift) combined with global mobility and ability to share regen enables CK to eschew farming (something he is bad at) in favour of ganking (something he is good at) without having to go back to the well too often and with a much higher success rate than he would have solo. AFAIK those are the somewhat common carries these days, although I haven't been able to watch as much dota as I'd like. While most of these picks are definitively better in different circumstances, all are viable enough that establishing your own style and getting comfortable with certain ones is probably better than picking what some pro would. Like, even if your opponents can't really deal with a well-played AM, if you can't play AM well then picking him is still not good. I suppose you forgot about Lone Druid? He's definitely one of the most commonly picked agi carries. | ||
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asaed
United States1412 Posts
Also, if you want to play agi carries, you might think a bit about the laning... I assume you want to play the 1 carry, or the safe trilane farmer? Typically, agi carries play that role, although sometimes, with the right set up, you can offensively trilane. If you are tight with Void, the natural next carry that is very similar is Anti-Mage. Often times similar builds (no MoM though), and same kind of mentality, except you usually farm a little bit longer with AM than you do with void. Luna is also quite similar to Void, in that both have good team-fight abilities in their ults and can easily TP in to change the direction of team fights. Luna, similar to void, can be played for the mid-game and do scale pretty well into the late game--whereas Anti-Mage doesn't play (typically, depending on build) well in the mid game. | ||
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DrLovecraft
United States108 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:30 BAAEEMM wrote: I suppose you forgot about Lone Druid? He's definitely one of the most commonly picked agi carries. Tanky motherfucker, has a bear that does 40% more damage to towers, doesn't have to actually fight with his hero (besides being a tough nut to crack), can lane anywhere and is a really competent laner, versatile item builds and role, he's like the Chinese carries wet dream because he has very few weaknesses that can be exploited and his strengths don't necessarily have to make him do risky plays like a void would Honestly if OP wants to learn how to draft, don't just blindly follow what you see and think its good First of all execution is a lot more important than the draft, especially true in lower levels of play where the draft is a minor importance, any hero can work with a strategy in mind, if pros can make Bloodseeker work, there isn't a reason any can't work in a specific lineup Second is that unvaried lineups/style of draft will be the downfall of any team, fluff has talked about him trying to come up with the perfect draft without any weaknesses, this is impossible IMO as people will figure out how to deal with stuff in time even when it's slightly OP, always think about how DTS made waves in the scene back in 2010 using really innovative drafts, people thought only 4p1 could work, in that version, just takes 1 captain to change the meta game | ||
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Cragus
Canada144 Posts
There are some oddball carries out there and interesting synergies/strategies, but if you have to ask what carries to pick, I would suggest just building your team compositions around trying to win every lane and disregarding all other details until you get more experience/confidence as a drafter. Get strong lanes, pick a reasonable carry, and use the advantage from winning your lanes to make space for your carry (if he needs it) or just win the game. AM, CK, Jugg, Naix, Luna, LD (requires some practice to play), Naix, and PL are all reliable carry choices that will do fine in most games. IMO, the key to captaining is being able to predict and understand how the game will play out just based off of the draft. From there, you can start thinking about specific heroes and strategy selections to maximize win chance, but you can't go wrong with just trying to make sure the early and mid game will go in your favour. Random aside on AM, he's not really the super hard carry people make him out to be. 1v1 equal farm manfight he'll lose to a lot of hard carries especially if they have a bkb to negate the illusions' mana burn, he doesn't have any real teamfight capacity (no chrono, dispersion, song, calldown, stone gaze, etc.), etc etc. What AM does have is insane synergy with battlefury letting him farm up a massive amount early on, as well as extreme tankiness vs magic damage. The result is that he can split push to depths that would be near-suicide for most other heroes, as well as jungle incredibly fast. So, what makes AM so good isn't so much an unstoppable six slot, its that he can get to that six-slot level way before any other carry (expect alch, maybe meepo) could reasonably hope to. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
Luna doesnt flashfarm nearly as good, but needs few items to be effective. Her ult is devastating in teamfights and lunar beam gives her an early tool for participating in fights on the lane. Her damage-passive helps enormously on the lanes and her bounce-passive makes her potent with farm. Is usually picked when you want to go for an aggressive tri or push early on. Bounty hunter isnt a carry, but a support. he is usually position 3 and played on the off-lane, mainly to provide your team with bonus-gold from track. He is picked when you want to gank a lot. Most people counterpick him by going for a tri with strong pushing power, since bh cant stop pushes. Nagas farming speed is okay, her lane presence is okay and her ult is really useful in teamfights. Rotated a bit out of favor since her last-hit-damage is so low, which significantly lowered her ability to kill things. Is usually picked for gank-heavy lineups that want to teamfight since she has a nuke and net is a great hunting spell and song is great for initiation/counterinitiation. LD is a hero with great pushing potential and one of the best off-laner in the game. If you dont have a second farmer like natures proph, pick him. In europe, he is mostly played on 2nd or first position, in asia sometimes on the third. His advantages are strong laning, very good chasing power and strong pushing power. He can siege greatly thanks to the fact that he can siege on long range with his bear. He needs some items to be effective though, which requires some experience with him. Gyro is the jack of all trades. He has one of the most damaging nukes in the game, a great lane dominance skill (hitting enemies in 1000 range) and a superb teamfight-ult. If he isnt focused, he can wipe entire teams within seconds with farm and is the only hero where i have seen divine in a lot of games. Can be played as solo mid or on a tri-lane, and is okay as a support. Needs some ally with a slow or stun to be effective in ganks but is great when he has one. Is a glass-canon, which means that if the enemy picks a carry with lots of mobility (am, lycan) and your team cant control him, gyro is screwed. You forgot pl, which is with gyro and ld the most picked carry atm. He can flash-farm pretty good, scales pretty good, has great split-push and a low cd-nuke in the lane. Has great synergy with kotl on the lane as well as later on, chakra enables pl to spam lances all day and recall allows pl to push a lane with illusions and then immediately be called to the teamfight. He is weak against offensive tris if you dont have kotl. He will outcarry every non-aoe-carry. He is picked if gyro is banned and you are going for mid or late game. on a side note: there is a triangle going on for carries, deciding who outcarries whom with equal farm in most situations. illusion>single target>aoe>illusion | ||
DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
Clinkz is picked every now and then. He's one of the more gank-oriented carries. Should practice him and get used to how he is played. Good players to watch and learn him from is MouzBlack and Na'Vi Funn1k. He has one of the highest dps output around the 18min mark in the game. Also a great pusher. You shouldn't practice Bounty Hunter if you are planning to run a carry. He's not a carry. He's a ganker that can carry, similar to Queen of Pain when she gets farmed. Another hero you probably don't have to practice is Weaver, even though he's run as a semi-carry/carry, he's often ran on suicide lane. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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