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Warlock, a fatal support?

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Kaffebullen
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden11 Posts
July 20 2013 18:16 GMT
#1
Hello, my nickname is Bulle. I have been playing DotA on and off for ~6 years. I used to have all the time in the world to spend on dota, these days though my time is limited, except for vacations (Did not get any work this summer). So with nothing else to do I will continue to banter about underrated heroes.

Warlock

[image loading]

Introduction
This evening will be about Warlock. Written with my opinions and team vs team in focus. Warlocks playstyle does not differ much compared to pubgames though. If you wanna read up on Warlock I recommend going to dota2.gamepedia.com, they have close to all of the gushy details about all heroes. Warlocks role is hard support, he does not need any general items to be effective through the whole game. If he do get any gold they should go into Mekanism, Pipe or some other support item. So what's his pros and cons as a hard support?


Pros
  • Great initiation.
  • Great counter initiation.
  • Great follow up.
  • High strength gain for a support.
  • No real need for items.
  • Long range and fast attack animation.
  • Fatal bounds damage scales into lategame.
  • Makes taking a tower after a won teamfight easy.
  • Got a heal.

Cons
  • Low armor.
  • Lack of stun for laning phase.
  • Long cooldown on ultimate.
  • Easily ganked midgame. (as any hard support)


How does he fit the meta?
Warlock both fits in some ways. He can basically fill the same position as a Magnus, he can delay a enemy team from pushing in while you have one/two heroes splitpushing. If the enemy team is forcing a push, his ultimate plus fatal bonds is close to the perfect beginning of a teamfight. On the other hand if the enemy is split pushing Warlock will have a hard time being effective during multiple sequential "plays".

Where should he be played?
He's a good babysitter vs a harass based offlaner. with his range and early DoT he should easily with the help from another support suppress the one single enemy. When Warlock gets his ultimate up the team can force teamfights by pushing, if won also includes a free tower. Warlock is also a great way to stop the enemy team from doing the same.

Why is it that he isn't played then?
Warlock played as a hard support need level 6 as soon as possible, he lack that important early stun and his ultimate cooldown is long. If you Compare it to the current most played supports you will see that they have short cd stuns, good scaling to lategame and often a way to "disrupt" the enemy carry. His role in teamfights are heavy reliant on wombo-combos which are hard to consistently execute in a higher level of game and warlock is hence usually a big gamble.

What conclusions can we draw?
He's a strong midgame-lategame support, if you succeed to not rumble a lot during the whole game and it's not more than a few teamfights that decides it you win more times than not with Warlock. He is awesome in most setups late game, he either opens or counters most teamfights, hard. He can easily place himself away from the engagement with his huge cast range and with that in mind is a "safe engager".

Can he be drafted?
When both teams are going for slow, farm based game with as few teamfights as possible (Chinese vs Chinese teams) he should be seriously considered, since the earlygame hard supports such as lina and rylai does not scale well into lategame. He is one of the few heroes that are really strong as a lategame hard support.

What can make him viable?
If the metagame makes for a slower pace warlock should be a hero most team should consider. A decrease in his cd and a re-balance on his other spells as a subsequent cause could also make him fit more into the meta.

Some more shameless advertising
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TL;DR
Warlock is a strong teamfight hero that fits the role as a hard support. He mainly fit games were both teams enjoy farming as much as possible and taking the fights as late as possible. His cast range makes him the perfect counterinitiator.

PS
Please pm any recent pro games you have seen warlock work efficiently
It's edible
Hagen0
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany765 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-20 21:12:11
July 20 2013 21:08 GMT
#2
When Warlock is picked he is pretty much always played as a solo. He is a dominant laner and benefits enormously from levels and items.

Warlock support used to be a thing back in the day. I feel that if he lacks impact in a support role compared to todays common picks. What makes him borderline viable is his ultimate which is extremely powerful but really come into its own with an Aghanims (and optimally a Refresher).
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
July 20 2013 21:40 GMT
#3
He's never played now, but when he was (EG and Dignitas in particular experimented with him quite a bit) it was almost always as a solo mid. You may not need items, but Warlock desperately needs experience and is pretty underwhelming as a support, especially weak before he gets 6.

Dodge arrows
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
July 20 2013 22:02 GMT
#4
i agree to my foreposters, as a support he lacks impact on the lane. He works against very defensive lineups and isnt bad against e.g. darkseer, but he really needs levels. Fatal bonds are really nice in a one vs one mid-scenario, unless your opponent has a really aggressive pick like qop or puck. The problem is that warlock lacks their ganking capabilities and late-game-impact aside from his long cd ultimate (which is super strong, dont get me wrong).
low gravity, yes-yes!
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
July 20 2013 22:09 GMT
#5
The main weaknesses of warlock are split push and buy back, otherwise he is an unstoppable beast for teamfights
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
July 20 2013 23:11 GMT
#6
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...
:)
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
July 20 2013 23:12 GMT
#7
I would like to see more last pick warlocks. So many times teams draft a really wombo combo lineup, and it would be cool to out wombo combo them
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Cyx.
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada806 Posts
July 20 2013 23:27 GMT
#8
On July 21 2013 08:11 synapse wrote:
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...

I remember dignitas picking warlock and spectre together, but they still ran him mid
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
July 20 2013 23:35 GMT
#9
fatal bonds and dispersion is one of the funniest things in dota more people should pick those two heroes together
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
July 20 2013 23:39 GMT
#10
warlock is op and his ulti should be nerfed....seriously clicking on r and owning the complete team with it is just stupid
SDMF
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 00:19:14
July 21 2013 00:17 GMT
#11
On July 21 2013 08:11 synapse wrote:
but but but what about the 420noscopequadruplegolems?

also i remember a few teams running warlock as a support for spectre...

Dignitas was doing it, but Warlock was still a solo mid. Their winrate with the strat was really bad from what I remember, and Warlock's winrate overall was something like 39% in the few months he saw his popularity rise.

On July 21 2013 08:12 LSB wrote:
I would like to see more last pick warlocks. So many times teams draft a really wombo combo lineup, and it would be cool to out wombo combo them


Teamfight teams are easier countered by split pushing.
Dodge arrows
Rodberd
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany531 Posts
July 21 2013 07:16 GMT
#12
i played warlock quite often.
during this time i found another weakness:
shadow demon ult / diffusal blades kill his golem instantly, so against some lineups he is basicly useless. his ulti will be crippled to a AOE-stun. the cooldown is horrible than.
he also lacks aoe-spells that deal dmg fast. if yuo have to stop 2x or 3x waves bonds wont do the magic. wasting the ulti might be overkill. same when there is a brood on the map.

still i like him (if the matchup is right), and on my lvl noone ever purged my golem.
Ooooh, look at it go
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
July 21 2013 08:05 GMT
#13
On July 21 2013 09:17 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Teamfight teams are easier countered by split pushing.

Except if they push you and you have to fight or will lose...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
July 21 2013 08:44 GMT
#14
That's why you get turtle heroes like kotl to make pushing really really hard. If your split pushing is good enough, they aren't going to be able to base race you, and if they send someone back to defend the split push you can likely win a 5v4 (the splitpusher(s) can tp back).

Of course, this is an ultra-simplified theorycraft session. Real situations are more complex.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
meadbert
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-21 16:58:18
July 21 2013 15:02 GMT
#15
The highest ranked warlock players on dotabuff play him as a carry. They rely on a support providing regen including a Ring of Basilius. Warlock starts with branches and maybe one Circlet. Skill. Order is Ult - Fatal Bonds - Shadow Word.
Item build is Midas - brown boots - Aghs - Refresher - Travel.

Best lane mate is Treant, but Omniknight works too.

Here is dotabuff's highest ranked player playing Warlock:
http://dotabuff.com/players/91852132/matches?hero=warlock&game_mode=&match_type=real

Looks like Boots of Travel is actually pretty rare, but Midas+Brown->Aghs->Refresher is common and he almost always lanes with his buddy playing as Treant.
Gotuso
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands733 Posts
July 21 2013 21:23 GMT
#16
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
July 22 2013 00:47 GMT
#17
On July 22 2013 06:23 Gotuso wrote:
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.


I've never had a situation where I wanted to cast it honestly because it just makes you a sitting duck if you're losing the teamfight and if you're winning it will likely catch 1-2 heroes at most (and not for long espc with just 1 point).
KurtistheTurtle
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1966 Posts
July 22 2013 03:15 GMT
#18
@upheaval: Warlock is pretty much the perfect character to take/defend rosh with (every single one of his spells is good around there)
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears."
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6230 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-22 07:48:55
July 22 2013 07:35 GMT
#19
On July 22 2013 09:47 RuskiPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2013 06:23 Gotuso wrote:
I've seen Warlock played as a support, but personally I can never resist going Aghanim's + Refresher. Especially if your not on very high mmr the Chaos Offering can just win fights by itself with a Fatal Bonds.

What I'm wondering is if you guys skill Upheavel; do you put 1 point in, all 4 or just straight stats? I usually put in 1 point, but after that I go stats to survive a stun -> burst situation so I can drop my ulti before I die.


I've never had a situation where I wanted to cast it honestly because it just makes you a sitting duck if you're losing the teamfight and if you're winning it will likely catch 1-2 heroes at most (and not for long espc with just 1 point).


Upheaval is terrifying...

It creates situations where your enemies are forced to do things they really don't want to do. Unfortunately, yes, that thing is "beat the crap out of the warlock", but... honestly... so what?

At the time when you cast it, your enemies don't even want to attack you, because you've already dropped your combo. If you force them to throw a spell or a carry at the burned-out support, then that's dps and stuns that didn't hit your teammates. If they don't, their ability to move into and out of the initiation zone is vastly reduced, and if they have kitable carries they're in serious trouble.

Also, at the point you cast it, the teamfight is nowhere near over. I don't know where that idea comes from. Even if you're counterinitating, bonds>rock>upheaval can be done before anyone on either team has even died.

In my opinion, it's way too powerful a skill to skip. You don't take it first, of course, but - provided I can live long enough to get my combo off in the first place - I'd take it over stats as often as possible.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
July 22 2013 08:01 GMT
#20
Golems! You have to include this in the guide.

Personally, his biggest weakness to me is that he's damn boring except for his shiny ulti. Also if i remember correctly when I saw him in pro games the ennemy team tends to have 2 diffusal and insta wipe the golem.

"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
July 22 2013 13:13 GMT
#21
If you can force the enemy team to pick up diffusals on heroes that ideally use something else that already affects their decision tree and can help
If you pick warlock vs SA PL or naga though then you're just silly
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-22 14:12:17
July 22 2013 14:02 GMT
#22
I think Upheaval gets a bad reputation it doesn't fully deserve. Yeah it's incredibly tough to use, but the slow can be so effective at stopping just about anything. Even a hero trying to move forward to get off a spell will have a noticeable delay if they're at -84% movespeed. Besides at level 4 you can pop it for a 28% or 56% 3 second slow pretty easily without being a sitting duck. With predictive planning and 'pre-using' to charge the slow % you can do even better. Depending on what melee threats and stuns there are I think it's totally worth investing all 4 in. Even without melee threats if you cast the spell from near max range (700 casting range + 650 AoE then the enemy team has to slog through upheavel to be in range to hit the lock with spells. At that point what do you do? Move at -84% movespeed to hit the lock out of his slow or fight a teamfight at -84% movement speed.

It's not like the stats seem to really help make him more survivable, he's squishy as all hell because he has no escape mechanisms or good quick disables, stats or no he's probably going down if a target gets on him.
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meadbert
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States681 Posts
July 22 2013 18:08 GMT
#23
If you are going the Midas->Aghs->Refresher build than some stats can be better than upheaval for a few reasons:
1) You will be mana limited. Your priorities will be 2 Fatal Bonds and 2 Chaotic Offerings. Between those 4 spells and your Refresher activation you should be low on mana. In teamfights where you have ult up you will probably not be using Upheaval.
2) With Refresher + Midas you actually hit pretty hard. Refresher gives a large bonus damage and Midas increases attack speed. All that time spent channeling is time you are not right-clicking.

Where Upheaval shines is when Chaotic Offering is on cooldown. Then you can fatal bonds + Upheaval and let your team do their work. The issue is you do not want to be engaging without Chaotic Offering if you can avoid it.

Diffusal Blade counters Warlock in general, but if you are dropping 4 Golems, then you still get 2 stuns and it takes a while to purge all 4 Golems. Your ult is still very powerful.

Warlock is not especially bad against Phantom Lancer. The Diffusal Blade is problematic, but Fatal Bonds is amazing against illusions.
Many people think of Illusions as like regular heroes but with 1/3 the HP, but that is not how the mechanics work. Instead they take 3x damage. What this means is that if you get real PL and a bunch of illusions in a Fatal bonds then he takes 60% of the damage you do to each illusion so it is possible to kill a Phantom Lancer who is running away just by finishing off his illusions.
Furthermore that multiple squares when illusion damage is Fatal Bondsed to another Illusion.
If I attack one Illusion for 100 the damage is multipied to 300. Then 20% of that so 60 is redirected each other Fatal Bondsed illusions. Those in turn each take triple damage as well so each other illusion under Fatal Bonds takes 180 damage just from a single 100 attack. The end result is that with Warlock it is possible to take out PL illusions quickly.
(Note: I have not double checked all of this in game, but that is my interpretation of how it is supposed to work.)

Finally, Carry Warlock is normally played as an early pushing strategy. You have no prayer in a late game scenario against traditional carries because your Golems stop scaling. The idea is to finish Aghs + Refresher a little after 20 minutes in and then start pushing hard. This occurs well before Phantom Lancer has reached critical mass.

Finally, Warlock is not that squishy. His 2.5 strength gain per level is quite good for an intelligence hero and if you are leveling stats that becomes 4.5 strength. Added to that you have Aghanim's Scepter which between Point Booster and Ogre Club is quite a tanky item. Warlock's weakness is his agility gain which is a woeful 1. This leads to an incredibly slow attack speed (mitigated by Hand of Midas) and then low armor. The way to go after Warlock is with right clicks, not spells, but if he has already dropped his Golems you are probably better off focusing on someone else. Unlike other intelligence heroes with spells with 8 and 10 second cooldowns, Warlock's spells all have large enough cooldowns that he is unlikely to use them twice in a teamfight (outside of Refresher Orb.)
If you take a Warlock down in a teamfight right after he ults twice he is likely to shrug since he can still respawn and go anywhere on the map by the time his ult is up again.

If you catch Warlock alone he is slow (particularly if just on brown boots) and has no escapes. His only hope for survival might be to use an ult to stun.

Also if you can initiate on Warlock at the beginning of a teamfight before he ults then that is huge, but given the long range of Chaotic Offering that is tough to pull off. If he is greedy and tries to Fatal Bonds first you have a good chance but if he goes for the safer, ult, bonds, refresh, ult, bonds then there is little hope to keep him from getting his ults off.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
July 23 2013 01:56 GMT
#24
wut, does bonding twice (after refresher) stack?
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rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
July 23 2013 09:44 GMT
#25
On July 23 2013 10:56 FFGenerations wrote:
wut, does bonding twice (after refresher) stack?


I tried it in wtf mode once and I was able to stack as many instances of fatal bonds as I could spam out lol.
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